Shooting Down the First Soviet Su-25

[forcetrip]

It was a Su-22 that was downed with cannons .. But still .. I think you should give it up for that ..

 

[aamerjamal]

mastan khan what about PAF in arab-isreal's wars you should read those stories, and then plz tell me you praise PAF now or not..

Pakistan Military Consortium :: www.PakDef.info

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I cannot sell my guys short---I don't want my guys to have a strut in their steps just by shooting down the su 25 --22--23---. Where is the gamesmanship over here---.

You want to be the real mcCoy---then shoot the real thing.

 

[MastanKhan]

mastan khan what about PAF in arab-isreal's wars you should read those stories, and then plz tell me you praise PAF now or not..

Pakistan Military Consortium :: www.PakDef.info

Sir,

Absolutely---no doubt about that---that was a moment to cherish and a moment of pride---.

But in hindsight---think about it----was it worth it---what did pakistan gain out of it---syria has better relationship with india---egypt has better relations with india---and neither gave a **** about us---and neither took any lesson out of it to take it any further than that.

That victory and our attitude brought israel closer to india---israel is going to be the biggest weapons technology supplier to india---plus manpower assistance would be substantial---.

So---now you tell---was that moment of glory worth the israeli animosity!!!

 

[subanday]

Hi,

Quite a few of the iraqi pilots in the first GW didnot fly any evasive maneavouers because their obsolete radars could not tell them where the enemy aircraft was or if there was a phoenix missile coming at them----they possibly died NOT KNOWING when they died.

The russians were not lost----they carried out ground strike missions in pakistan all the times---sometimes they got caught.

Now as for the shooting of the SU 25---there was no reason for the PAF to brag about it---it was like your Ferrari beat the sh-it out the opponents Hyundai at the Lemans---and you are jumping up and down with joy---that was rather cheap and still is.

When the paks take out the mig 29 and the m2ks on their own---then I will bow my head down in praise---other than that it was just a turkey shoot.

Dear , a Hyundai behind a Ferrari wont overtake it or cripple, but a fighter jet behind another one can despatch it.... so real pride needs to be felt whether we shoot a UAV or a MKI....

 

[garibnawaz]

Dear , a Hyundai behind a Ferrari wont overtake it or cripple, but a fighter jet behind another one can despatch it.... so real pride needs to be felt whether we shoot a UAV or a MKI....

Then why critisize indians for shooting down atlantique?

GB

 

[subanday]

Garibnawaz, a plane shot down in violation of international borders is ok ,as in case of su-25 here and ur migs during kargil operation, and in future if any such act takes place....
Atlantique was shot when it was in its own territory, u know dat...

 

[garibnawaz]

Atlantique was shot when it was in its own territory, u know dat...

a claim which was evcen refused by International Court of Law.

IAF and MOD had presented all the proofs that it was strayed in Indian Airspace.

I dont remembe PAF presenting any proofs to counter that claim.

GB

 

[Patriot]

A kill is a kill regardless of what the enemy posses.Israelis are praised all over the world for their kills against Arabs despite the fact that Israelis flew top the line F15's which was F22 of that era and shot down many Soviet Mig 21's used by Arabs however the transport jet kill are just bonus but Su22 or Su23 kills are good!

 

[roach]

Yeah, a kill is a kill. Sure.

It's just that the sense of accomplishment in defeating an adversary that has the capacity to fight back, and KNOWS that you are there before you bash his head in, is completely different.

Anybody get the difference?

 

[forcetrip]

If your situation awareness flying in enemy territory is that low to be shot within cannon distance then thats a different story. I dont believe the SU's are that bad in radar suite. I agree with Mastan on the missile takedowns .. F16's were far superior to the su's in distanced engagements.

 

[su-47]

Hi,

I don't want to sell my guys short---they take down the mig 29 / m2k with cannons---that is a feat---but an su 25---which didnot even have a radar powerful enough to know that you were there coming---.

Where is the pride and dignity of a fighter ace in shooting someone who is blind. I don't see it anywhere.

Mastan, the kill itself might have been a turkey shot, but the fact that the F-16 responded fast enough to catch the adversary inside Pak territory and shoot it down has to be commended.

More than the actual kill, what is to be admired is the political will shown by the Pak armed forces. The USSR was a superpower. Many nations would have been to scared to retaliate against them, and would have just let the Soviet jets continue the violation of their air space. But PAF actually had the balls to take them on and uphold their sovereignty. Thats has its own pride and dignity.

 

[Patriot]

Yeah, a kill is a kill. Sure.

It's just that the sense of accomplishment in defeating an adversary that has the capacity to fight back, and KNOWS that you are there before you bash his head in, is completely different.

Anybody get the difference?

Well in that sense there are many pilots in US who just launched missiles at BVR range and shot down Iraqis and the Iraqis could not even locate F15's on their radar by the time missile hit the iraqis but the pilots are still very well praised in the USAF Community.I am pretty you won't say the same thing if IAF shots down some Pakistani jet in BVR range or if SU30 shots down Pakistani F7. Canon kill in itself is a very good thing.Shooting down adversary via canon is no easy job.Su 25 could get out of the range easily.I am sure PAF was eventually prepared for even Mig29's at that time as Soviets could have created by giving Mig29 escorts to Su22.Israelis shot down several Arab mig21's by using F15's and F15's were F22 of that time but they're still praised for it.The fact of matter is the members mostly indians are trying to descredit these kills just because it's Pakistanis where as if Israelis do something like this they would be all praise saying Israeli know how to protect itself etc.Besides shooting down Soviet Jet is another totally different thing.You gotta have the balls to shot down a super power jet which is located just across the border.

 

[Chogy]

When in combat, you don't seek "fair." If you are shooting a rifle at someone, do you stand up and say "Here I am!" and give him a chance to shoot you so the entire episode is more "manly"? Ridiculous. It is not the F-16 pilot's fault the Su-25 was clueless. Part of the game is taking the enemy by surprise, at night, with a well-executed intercept. And night intercepts are never easy.

It is the entire process, from scramble, to CAP, to GCI, shootdown, and egress, that is praiseworthy.

 

[fatman17]

Yeah, a kill is a kill. Sure.

It's just that the sense of accomplishment in defeating an adversary that has the capacity to fight back, and KNOWS that you are there before you bash his head in, is completely different.

Anybody get the difference?

i know its difficult for u to accept this. now what if it was a IAF SU-30MKI and it had shot the SU-25 intruder? - I can see the 'headlines"!