Shalwar Kameez - a Pakistani dress?

[RowdyRathore]

Why do I need to ask them?... that kind of approval is necessary for you so go ahead.

Well sir! I don't consider nudity or certain clothing as an uncivilised thing.
People should always be upto their will.

 

[war&peace]

Well sir! I don't consider nudity or certain clothing as an uncivilised thing.
People should always be upto their will.

not in public.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Okay. This is carry on from another thread. The Shalwar Kameez. Is it Pakistani dress. Or is it a Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi dress etc ? Please vote and give your reasons here. Thanks.

Please give your reasons when you vote !

@Iqbal Ali

Afghan dress adopted by Pakistanis, the dress was probably worn by ancestors of Pushtun tribes too, The Baluch have their own version, I think kamez shalwar went through some revolution but a version of it was probably worn by early East Iranian nomadic groups who settled in our region, do not be fooled by Gangadeshi propaganda regrading kameez shalwar, if it were up to them we would be wondering around half naked with nothing but a dhoti on.

But today Indians are fast moving on to Shalwar Kameez. 50 years ago it was restricted to the Sikhs in Punjab - although even they used a tight pyjama instead of loose shalwar. Today Shalwar Kameez has spread everywhere in India, Bangladesh and Nepal. The Sari is fast disapearing. I have no idea what brought this. Even more surprising when Indian's seem to be hostile to anything Pakistani.

And just to note Sikhs wore Kurta/Pajama and the Muslim Banglas used to wear Saris - look up even the images of 1971 war you can see that. Indira Gandhi as late as 1980s wore Saree all the time.

Shalwar kameez is just too sexy, nothing sexy about half naked dhotti wearing clown.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Gangadeshi propaganda regrading kameez shalwar

Well said. 50 years ago less than 5% of India wore anything resembling Shalwar Kameez. The Sari was standard Ganga wear. However like in most things they copy us and then claim it as "Gangadeshi".

 

[Jaanbaz]

Well said. 50 years ago less than 5% of India wore anything resembling Shalwar Kameez. The Sari was standard Ganga wear. However like in most things they copy us and then claim it as "Gangadeshi".

The mindset of Indian Nationalists is akin to Afro-centrists where the African Americans claim ancient Egypt and pretty much everything ancient as theirs.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The mindset of Indian Nationalists is akin to Afro-centrists where the African Americans claim ancient Egypt and pretty much everything ancient as theirs.

You know it's interesting you say that. You made a fantastic analogy there. I am tempted to open a thread on it.

In another forum a Egyptian was complaining that Africa-Americans claim Egypt on the most dubvious grounds that sound exactly like what Indian to us. (i) That Egypt is in Africa. (ii) That Nile is sourced in Ethopian/Ugandan highlands. (iii) That there are spits of Ancient Egyptian sites in Sudan, Axum, Eritrea etc. (iv) That modern Egytians are usurpers and migrants.

This is exactly what the Indian do with us.

 

[Jaanbaz]

You know it's interesting you say that. You made a fantastic analogy there. I am tempted to open a thread on it.

In another forum a Egyptian was complaining that Africa-Americans claim Egypt on the most dubvious grounds that sound exactly like what Indian to us. (i) That Egypt is in Africa. (ii) That Nile is sourced in Ethopian/Ugandan highlands. (iii) That there are spits of Ancient Egyptian sites in Sudan, Axum, Eritrea etc. (iv) That modern Egytians are usurpers and migrants.

This is exactly what the Indian do with us.

Unlike the Egyptians, Pakistanis didn't use to take pride in our ancestors and the the marks they left i.e. Indus Valley Civilisation. Try telling an Egyptian Muslim that he has no right on Ancient Egypt and see their reaction where as many Pakistanis tried to forget their past, on the other hand we had the misfortune of a neighbouring country who decided to name their country after a river in an attempt to legitimise itself as the sole inheritor of all of South Asian history, culture and civilisations after the British left.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Unlike the Egyptians, Pakistanis didn't use to take pride

Yes you are right. There are many reasons for this - mostly to do with the politics of the Pakistan's early years. However non of that was a excuse for Gangadeshis to walk in and grab our glorious heritage.

You know what is amazing? Nile River is only at best 25% in Egypt. Whereas Indus is almost 92% in Pakistan and the source is in China. Pakistan and Indus are practically synonym for each other. Yet people from other side of the continent in Tamil Nadu, Odisha in India start masturbating at the mention of "Indus". It's a remarkable delusion they suffer. Honestly I can't figure how they manage this. It is akin to Bulgarians, Slovaks, Poles getting excited over Stonehenge in England on the premise of being European.

The sub-continent has roughly three regions. The Indus Valley, The Ganga Basin and the Dravid peninsula. How exactly Ganga, Dravid India gets excited about far away Indus is beyond me. And about the name "India". no big deal. Even if they got that brand name it means nought. Do you get Romania claming Roman Empire because they have similar name?

 

[SQ8]

Essentially a rural west India/Afghan dress pattern.. Nothing to do with it being "Pakistani"or otherwise
The various iterations of it then came into royalty with the Mughals, eventually becoming the Kurta Pyjama which at the end of the day is a Shalwar & a Kameez or vice versa depending on how you see it.

All of them are iterations of the same basic Turkic Afghan dress which can then be extrapolated as having links to various other cultures as "their" dress.

There is nothing Pakistani or non-Pakistani about it- it is as much a part of culture as is the Kalash dress or the bangles of a Sindhi-Rajasthani woman in a thar village.

So while North Indian Hindus can claim the Kurta Pyjama as their dress, so can the Muslims because at the end it is a pass down from the amalgamation of central asian/Afghan invaders with the local culture... the same goes for all across Punjab.. wherever invading armies went, they brought their ideals which based on the time they stayed ended up being absorbed into a culture. Be it in the areas of Pakistan, India or Bengal ; this diffusion of culture took place over two thousand years.

The idea of culture is to create an amalgamation of what constitutes the entirety of individual cultural heritage rather than assign one like puritanical nazis.

Because at the end of the day, the suit worn my most Pakistani men at their Valimas has NOTHING to do with the land or culture less than a 150 years ago, but is now considered traditional to do so.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Essentially a rural west India/Afghan dress pattern.. Nothing to do with it being "Pakistani"or otherwise
The various iterations of it then came into royalty with the Mughals, eventually becoming the Kurta Pyjama which at the end of the day is a Shalwar & a Kameez or vice versa depending on how you see it.

All of them are iterations of the same basic Turkic Afghan dress which can then be extrapolated as having links to various other cultures as "their" dress.

There is nothing Pakistani or non-Pakistani about it- it is as much a part of culture as is the Kalash dress or the bangles of a Sindhi-Rajasthani woman in a thar village.

So while North Indian Hindus can claim the Kurta Pyjama as their dress, so can the Muslims because at the end it is a pass down from the amalgamation of central asian/Afghan invaders with the local culture... the same goes for all across Punjab.. wherever invading armies went, they brought their ideals which based on the time they stayed ended up being absorbed into a culture. Be it in the areas of Pakistan, India or Bengal ; this diffusion of culture took place over two thousand years.

The idea of culture is to create an amalgamation of what constitutes the entirety of individual cultural heritage rather than assign one like puritanical nazis.

Because at the end of the day, the suit worn my most Pakistani men at their Valimas has NOTHING to do with the land or culture less than a 150 years ago, but is now considered traditional to do so.

This is exactly why Pakistan will remain a one dimentional concept as thin as paper lacking any historical anchor and it's people prone to being lost and schizophrenic. Are they Indian? Are they Muslim? Are they Arab? Are they Asian? Forever to suffer. A manifestation of the perfect artificial state born on the whims of few. A deviancy nurtured by the British. Just a place for temperory refuge of hatred of india that will in time coalesce back with Mata India. Just a aberration that history will reclaim like footprints on the beach.

This is what feeds the notion that Pakistan is just a hatred of India reflected in a mirror and kept alive by a army.

 

[SQ8]

This is exactly why Pakistan will remain a one dimentional concept as thin as paper lacking any historical anchor and it's people prone to being lost and schizophrenic. Are they Indian? Are they Muslim? Are they Arab? Are they Asian? Forever to suffer. A manifestation of the perfect artificial state born on the whims of few. A deviancy nurtured by the British. Just a place for temperory refuge of hatred of india that will in time coalesce back with Mata India. Just a aberration that history will reclaim like footprints on the beach.

This is what feeds the notion that Pakistan is just a hatred of India reflected in a mirror and kept alive by a army.

The same one dimensional concept which compared to any other decade in its past has displayed greater national unity and purpose within its population clearly has no relation to your strawman arguments... Especially when the whole premise is about a lousy dress.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Especially when the whole premise is about a lousy dress.

It's greater then that. And you know it. It is part part of wider identity of what it is to be Pakistan. It's about the way we look at these things. Your paddling exactly what the Indians paddle.

 

[defence_analyst]

Essentially a rural west India/Afghan dress pattern.. Nothing to do with it being "Pakistani"or otherwise
The various iterations of it then came into royalty with the Mughals, eventually becoming the Kurta Pyjama which at the end of the day is a Shalwar & a Kameez or vice versa depending on how you see it.

All of them are iterations of the same basic Turkic Afghan dress which can then be extrapolated as having links to various other cultures as "their" dress.

There is nothing Pakistani or non-Pakistani about it- it is as much a part of culture as is the Kalash dress or the bangles of a Sindhi-Rajasthani woman in a thar village.

So while North Indian Hindus can claim the Kurta Pyjama as their dress, so can the Muslims because at the end it is a pass down from the amalgamation of central asian/Afghan invaders with the local culture... the same goes for all across Punjab.. wherever invading armies went, they brought their ideals which based on the time they stayed ended up being absorbed into a culture. Be it in the areas of Pakistan, India or Bengal ; this diffusion of culture took place over two thousand years.

The idea of culture is to create an amalgamation of what constitutes the entirety of individual cultural heritage rather than assign one like puritanical nazis.

Because at the end of the day, the suit worn my most Pakistani men at their Valimas has NOTHING to do with the land or culture less than a 150 years ago, but is now considered traditional to do so.

West Indian dress

Yes there is similarity with thar and cholistan people but we are talking about shalwar kameez here which is mainstream ancient Pakistani dress since IVC people came up with cotton. Get your facts right.

 

[SQ8]

It's greater then that. And you know it. It is part part of wider identity of what it is to be Pakistan. It's about the way we look at these things. Your paddling exactly what the Indians paddle.

Either you are extremely tired or intoxicated to construe my statement that way. Please re-read what the term" national unity" means.
The dress is part of the individualistic culture, so regardless of its cultural aspect.. I have no interest in the Shalwar Kameez bar eid as it is a lousy dress to do anything other than manual labor in. It has nothing to do with my definition as a Pakistani or how I assess the country. That is true for most in Pakistan and has little to do with where and why the dress originated.

If anything, you are peddling the ideals of associating with a conformed identity which reflect a banana republic struggling to keep everyone in line by a single outward appearance or single accent.
You are Pakistani regardless of what language you speak or color of your skin or the length of your dress's entails.

West Indian dress

Yes there is similarity with thar and cholistan people but we are talking about shalwar kameez here which is mainstream ancient Pakistani dress since IVC people came up with cotton. Get your facts right.

My facts are spot on, you are only playing the usual defensive mentality of trying to associate a dress with being Pakistani or with the IVC or with Hazrat Adam rather than recognizing Pakistan as a collective of diversity with a shared purpose as a nation of the various people living in it to live their lives according to their beliefs with freedom.

The Shalwar Kameez has nothing to do with any particular country as such.

 

[defence_analyst]

My facts are spot on, you are only playing the usual defensive mentality of trying to associate a dress with being Pakistani or with the IVC or with Hazrat Adam rather than recognizing Pakistan as a collective of diversity with a shared purpose as a nation of the various people living in it to live their lives according to their beliefs with freedom.

The Shalwar Kameez has nothing to do with any particular country as such.

I'm correcting you since you have little idea about actual rural west indian dress. Thar and cholistan people cloths have similarity with west indians not mainstream Pakistani shalwar kameez. Even Indian punjab which is closest choridar pajama is different then shalwar kameez.