Shadow of Brutal ’79 War Darkens Vietnam’s View of China Relations

[Genesis]

I don't speak for the Japanese Government, I'm not a politician. Their position is against nuclear armament since Japan is a signatory of the NNPT. I, as a private citizen, believe that Japan should have the capability at least.

I'm not representing the Chinese government either, this is a forum, not a decision making body.

Having nukes is fine if it doesn't result in the end of the world. Hence like I said before, Americans will be against it before China.


You seem to think I have something against Japan, I don't. I actually thought of alliance, no war. But both the Japanese and Chinese government has gone too far, to reconcile without a war. However, we could still potentially go without one, but the thing is by 2025-2030, Chinese military will be the undisputed number one in Asia, second only to the US, though by then Anti access would have mature enough for East Asia. Will Japan accept it? I doubt it. But if you do, A UK role is still great, UK is not nothing in the world.


I will say this, any alliance with China, Japan will be forced to be the junior partner, not so different than today's Britain and US. This is decided on national strength. Abe is obviously not fine with that and neither are you apparently. Which is also why you seek an established power as the senior partner in your relationships.


In the years to come, Japan as a major player is over, China, Us, Russia, maybe India will be the pillars of global power. Japan can no more than be a secondary power like the UK. Nothing personal, it's just, it's a 10 trillion dollars buy.

 

[NiceGuy]

Should we also told Vietname what time, which location, what weapons we will deployed?, I can interprete differently about your so call elites. they were not up to fight or afraid of been destroyed by PLA, so in order to preserve this elite groups, you sent ladies to fight intead.
.

R u still living in cave ? so u dont know that u when a country want to fight, they must declare war first, so civilians can evacuate to safe zone ??

China army forced our women to fight when they could not have time to evacuate to safe zone coz China didnt declare war to VN. But so bad for coward and poor discipline PLA that they still lost and lots of PLA troops quickly surrendered to our women militia to save their lives.

Base on what you said, I'm wondering how China fought Vietnam in Ancient time without satellite? ..I still comtemplate

Some VNese traitors told ur army where to go, and we were our troops

 

[Viet]

vietnam was not strong enough to invade Philippines , Malaysia or Indonesia, but Burma,,,,,,haha, if we didn't stop your actions....you know what i mean...

do you think we are superman or something? invading all neighbors?
I am not aware of that we had been seen as imperial japanese army.

typical chinese delusion.
using your dream as pretext for the invasion of Vietnam.

I have been on this forum for 2 days... As a silent reader..

Guys, can you tell me... Why Vietnamese poster have some delusional? They think Vietnam is the center of the world..
Jesus fcking Christ .... Vietnam still 3rd world country...

sorry, I believe you mean the chinese, who call their country as zhongguo.

 

[Grand Historian]

1979 invasion show the world how rich Chinese culture and history.
Again, shut up !!!

The same culture that Vietnamese plagiarize as their own

You can't handle the inconvenient truth that Vietnamese tried to invade China,and massacred Southern Han.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The same culture that Vietnamese plagiarize as their own

You can't handle the inconvenient truth that Vietnamese tried to invade China,and massacred Southern Han.

Because they also have an imperial dream like Nippon.

 

[Viet]

The same culture that Vietnamese plagiarize as their own

You can't handle the inconvenient truth that Vietnamese tried to invade China,and massacred Southern Han.

any source?
do you mean our preemptive strike on the Song army? that was necessary as the Song prepared to attack Vietnam.

Because they also have an imperial dream like Nippon.

not true. we are different.
when we stepped out of the border, we always wanted to civilize the barbarians or restore peace and order. that is all.
if we wanted to annex neighbors, we had many chances.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

any source?
do you mean our preemptive strike on the Song army? that was necessary.

Yeah, just like Imperial Japan's pre-emptive strike on the Pearl Harbor.

When you were attacking other's cities and massacred its civilians, then you can advocate these acts like the self-defense.

This only shows that you guys are not the victims that you pretend to be.

not true. we are different.
when we stepped out of the border, we always wanted to civilize the barbarians or restore peace and order. that is all.
if we wanted to annex neighbors, we had many chances.

You are simply too weak to annex anything around you, since you even failed to grab a piece from China during its weakest moment.

 

[Viet]

Yeah, just like Imperial Japan's pre-emptive strike on the Pearl Harbor.

When you were attacking other's cities and massacred its civilians, then you can advocate these acts like the self-defense.

This only shows that you guys are not the victims that you pretend to be.

Don´t get confused, dude. We launched the preemptive strike on the Song army, like Israel did in the 6-day war.
That was legitimate self-defence. the Song had ill intention. We never killed innocent chinese civilians.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Don´t get confused, dude. We launched the preemptive strike on the Song army, like Israel did in the 6-day war.
That was legitimate self-defence. the Song had ill intention. We never killed innocent chinese civilians.

lol, even the anti-China Wikipedia claimed that your army has killed at least 200k civilians, so don't try to deny the history.

You guys always condemn how PLA has committed the war crime in Vietnam, but never look yourself at the mirror.

PS, during the ancient time, the massacre against the civilians was a very common thing.

 

[Grand Historian]

any source?
do you mean our preemptive strike on the Song army? that was necessary as the Song prepared to attack Vietnam.

Read the Songshi nowhere is it mentioned that Wang Anshi had any motivation on conquering the Ly dynasty before the Vietnamese invasion.

If anything the reason why Wang Anshi decided to close trade and borders with Dai Viet because of Ly Thai Thong covert support of Nung Zhigao and Vietnamese slander against Wang's reforms.

The reason why Song armies proceeded to invade Vietnam was because of Vietnamese aggression not the other way around.

If anything the Ly court was paranoid that the Song was able to stabilize their relationships wit the Zhuang.

In regards to the Baojia system was raise militias to deter bandits and replace mercenaries not to invade other countries as the Song already had to deal with the Tanguts and Khitans

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Read the Songshi nowhere is it mentioned that Wang Anshi had any motivation on conquering the Ly dynasty before the Vietnamese invasion.

If anything the reason why Wang Anshi decided to close trade and borders with Dai Viet because of Ly Thai Thong covert support of Nung Zhigao and Vietnamese slander against Wang's reforms.

The reason why Song armies proceeded to invade Vietnam was because of Vietnamese aggression not the other way around.

If anything the Ly court was paranoid that the Song was able to stabilize their relationships wit the Zhuang.

In regards to the Baojia system was raise militias to deter bandits and replace mercenaries not to invade other countries as the Song already had to deal with the Tanguts and Khitans

When the political instability was caused by Wang's political reform, meanwhile Song was threatened by its rivals in the North.

Vietnam thought this should be an excellent opportunity to grab a huge piece of land from China.

Their goal was to conquer China's fertile land below the Yangzi River, that's why they always taught their kids how the land below Yangzi River was originally inhabited by the Baiyue people, etc.

If Vietnam has no territorial ambition on China's land, then why they keep spreading those fairytales about the Baiyue origin of South China?

 

[Grand Historian]

When the political instability was caused Wang's political reform, meanwhile Song was threatened by its rivals in the North.

Vietnam thought this should be an excellent opportunity to grab a huge piece of land from China.

Their goal was to conquer China's fertile land below the Yangzi River, that's why they always taught their kids how the land below Yangzi River was originally inhabited by the Baiyue people, etc.

If Vietnam has no territorial ambition on China's land, then why they keep inventing those fairytales about the Baiyue origin of South China?

I think Wang Anshi's reforms had good intentions in strengthening the country ie relieving the tax from Northern districts,training militias,fighting corruption and income equality,granaries for disasters and curbing Song Shenzong's ambitions.

However at the same time the grass sprouts policy eroded the wealth of middle class peasants,corruption of the enforcers that tried to reform the monopolist market,shifting blame on the "engrossers" instead of acknowledging them and government officials charging high rates on loans.

The main issue with Wang Anshi's reform is that the one's who enforced his reforms were corrupt and ineffective ie harassing merchants,extorting the common people.arbitrary raising the service exemption fee.

In my opinion many of his reforms backfired benefiting entrenched landed gentry instead of the rural peasants.they were too reliant on theoretical models that there would be no famines,corruption etc.

In the end the reformist faction's zeal proved to be their undoing.

Agreed,this irredentist nonsense that Southern China used to belong to the Vietnamese is sickening.

The so called "Baiyue brotherhood".that we Southern Han are their long lost kin is hilarious just look at their conduct in Yongzhou .

 

[Jlaw]

shut up your always-driving away from topic posting

He's posting Vietnamese lies. Vietnam use fake history. Fake writing system. Everything is fake in vietnam even your fake Chinese names.

 

[Grand Historian]

He's posting Vietnamese lies. Vietnam use fake history. Fake writing system. Everything is fake in vietnam even your fake Chinese names.

Then they claim that we copied our surnames from Baiyue people

 

[Jlaw]

Whats with you and Nuclear? Once you have them you don't get to use them unless you want to be the retard that ends the human race.
From your logic, if established boundaries are compromised, you get the go to use nuclear weapons?

Too many nuclear weapons in the hands of small countries opens the door to even smaller countries demanding them. They aren't exactly that difficult to make.

China has a policy of no first use so no country needs fear Chinese nuclear strikes. On the other hand, by building nuclear weapons you are opening yourself up to getting nuked. Quite a paradox.

I can see that Chinese growth has some Asian countries worried but the talk of war and nukes is completely absurd. There will be jostling, boat ramming, fistfights on the borders and name calling but for those calling for war, I think its time to grow up.

As Isaac Asimov loves to repeat,

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent"

A nuclear Japan with an itchy finger is not the end of humanity, but the end of Japanese race. Small country vs big country in nuclear war, well you know it won't end well for a small country.