Featured SH15 Artillery in Pakistan

[Thorough Pro]

"Cat is out of the bag"

Sir what are you trying to say ? I am confused here

 

[Joe Shearer]

Is it operational cost to run the army or includes capital funds for purchases?

This is normally both combined. The more we spend on recurring costs, salaries, oil and fuels, pensions, maintenance, energy, the less we have to use for capital expenditure.

 

[blain2]

On the LOC?

Only villagers will be affected. So much for the moral support for the ordinary man that is prominent in professions of support for Kashmir and the Kashmiri.

Not for the LoC as you well know. If acquisition at scale goes through, these guns would be for the artillery units with the strike corps.

Pakistan's procurement is also more opaque, especially deals with China. This creates a 2-prong issue where (1) it's hard to anticipate what Pakistan will acquire in the near term and (2) it's near-impossible to scuttle the deal if it's from China.


That's true, but I don't think we reduced defence spending (vs. GDP) because of growing healthcare or education costs. Rather, I think the bigger blocker has been our debt repayments, which have ballooned over the past 10 years. IMHO, if not for debt repayments, our real defence budget would likely be in the $13-17 bn a year range. That said, we are pretty much in a debt-snare because of corruption plus a lack of investment in education, skill development, etc to elevate our economic output. However, if all things were held equal, I believe our defence budget would be much higher if not for debt repayments.

The reason is it is opaque by design. It serves Pakistan no benefit to announce purchases openly because the adversary has greater buying power and can match every acquisition Pakistan makes. This is also why there is a concept of smart acquisitions in play where the respective service decides what it wants and without a lot of marketing hoopla, gets to induct capabilities with budget localized (major capital acquisitions are of course aside from this category but it gives the services some flexibility).

The other benefit of going with the Chinese is that on military acquisitions, the Chinese offer financing support which is not forthcoming from others. Yes, someone has to pay for these, but the conditionality's on financing etc. are much more favorable.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Not for the LoC as you well know. If acquisition at scale goes through, these guns would be for the artillery units with the strike corps.

I know. I was being sarcastic. Sorry.

These are tricky things to handle. There is a small town - I think it is Panzgam - near Kupwara, where a stressed out 155 mm howitzer battery decided they would place their guns.

Nothing wrong with that, except that the PA has a nasty habit of counter-battery fire. Although the Bofors has quite a range, about 21 kms, there is still hazard. The battery decided on the school yard to place their guns, just to add to the tension.

The town was pissed off. It wasn't about the guns being there, it was about the counter-battery fire that they were fearful. After a couple of weeks, perhaps a little more, common sense dawned, the gunners cut a slope and levelled a pitch for themselves to a side, and all was well.

The reason is it is opaque is by design. It serves Pakistan no benefit to announce purchases openly because the adversary has greater buying power and can match every acquisition Pakistan makes. This is also why there is a concept of smart acquisitions in play where the respect service decides what it wants and without a lot of marketing hoopla, gets to induct capabilities.

The other benefit of going with the Chinese is that on military acquisitions, the Chinese offer support which is not forthcoming from others. Yes, someone has to pay for these, but the conditionality's on financing etc. are much more favorable.

 

[vi-va]

You have a point.

I know that there is a defensive mind-set among Pakistani military planners, and I know that the clumsy, out of sync noises emerging from the present political-military combination at the centre does not give much comfort to these planners, indeed, to anyone.

It is slowly becoming clear that we need a no-war pact. At the moment, it sounds ridiculous, and the strategists in Pakistan, of whom there are so, so many, will immediately throw themselves on the floor for their greater comfort in rolling around laughing, wondering if Pakistan is seriously expected to focus on her own internal problems, and on mending fences with her neighbours to west and east, when it is so much easier to be lazy and continue to be the catspaw of somebody else.

We can only hope. It is impossible as long as we have the present bunch of chuckle-wits ruling Delhi. It may be that we have shifted permanently to a groove so far to the right that people from my generation could never have imagined it to be possible.

Umeed pe duniya qayam hai.

Hope is what keeps the world alive. But I have to say, making peace is easier said than done.

 

[Beast]

The clearance should be enough for most usage cases, it’s definitely not as good as its competitors, but with its adjustable/adaptive suspension and engineering’s leading the way it’ll do just fine, keep in mind artillery doesn’t go to the frontlines, it stays back where it’s safe and there’s stable terrain to fire from.

But your so called competitors having too high clearance is also making their recoil stability not as good as SH-15.

SH-15 SPH having the lowest recoil of all competitors. The gun is so stable, it can used direct shooting which none of the competitors are capable to match. It is a pro instead of con.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

That's true, but I don't think we reduced defence spending (vs. GDP) because of growing healthcare or education costs. Rather, I think the bigger blocker has been our debt repayments, which have ballooned over the past 10 years. IMHO, if not for debt repayments, our real defence budget would likely be in the $13-17 bn a year range. That said, we are pretty much in a debt-snare because of corruption plus a lack of investment in education, skill development, etc to elevate our economic output. However, if all things were held equal, I believe our defence budget would be much higher if not for debt repayments.

The biggest blocker was 18th amendment in 2010. Now provinces get lion share of FBR revenues, 58% which they spend on education, health etc. With 42% federal govt have to pay debt, defence and other expenses to run government.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hope is what keeps the world alive. But I have to say, making peace is easier said than done.

I agree.

We just have to keep trying. There is no short-cut, and we have to live on hope and keep at it.

The biggest blocker was 18th amendment in 2010. Now provinces get lion share of FBR revenues, 58% which they spend on education, health etc. With 42% federal govt have to pay debt, defence and other expenses to run government.

That's actually a good thing. That's how it should be.

If only we could get something similar in India.

 

[vi-va]

But your so called competitors having too high clearance is also making their recoil stability not as good as SH-15.

SH-15 SPH having the lowest recoil of all competitors. The gun is so stable, it can used direct shooting which none of the competitors are capable to match. It is a pro instead of con.

Caesar is in no comparison with SH-15 on accuracy, stability, not to mention shoot on moving targets which Caesar is lacking completely.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

That's actually a good thing. That's how it should be.

If only we could get something similar in India.

The concept is good, but it's misapplied in Pakistan. The provincial governments are prone to ethnocentrism, top-heavy corruption, and severe negligence. They're no different than the federal government.

If we want to take this concept to its full, then Pakistan must devolve into dozens -- if not a hundred or so -- municipal districts. Give each district a locally elected government, and in turn, a simplified tax split with the federal or national government (that's renegotiable every 3-5 years). Do that and Pakistan will do better. I don't know how much better, but I think Karachi, Sialkot, Faisalabad, Gwadar etc, could fourish.

 

[Joe Shearer]

If we want to take this concept to its full, then Pakistan must devolve into dozens -- if not a hundred or so -- municipal districts. Give each district a locally elected government, and in turn, a simplified tax split with the federal or national government (that's renegotiable every 3-5 years). Do that and Pakistan will do better. I don't know how much better, but I think Karachi, Sialkot, Faisalabad, Gwadar etc, could fourish.

Brilliant!

This makes ENORMOUS sense!

 

[iLION12345_1]

Caesar is in no comparison with SH-15 on accuracy, stability, not to mention shoot on moving targets which Caesar is lacking completely.

Kindly refrain from making baseless claims. There’s nothing to back up this bias. The SH-15 is not better than it’s competitors capability wise unless you can prove to me otherwise. A video doesn’t prove much in terms of technical aspects and capabilities.

But your so called competitors having too high clearance is also making their recoil stability not as good as SH-15.

SH-15 SPH having the lowest recoil of all competitors. The gun is so stable, it can used direct shooting which none of the competitors are capable to match. It is a pro instead of con.

You have literally no knowledge or military technology, won’t bother replying to you.

 

[vi-va]

I agree.

We just have to keep trying. There is no short-cut, and we have to live on hope and keep at it.


That's actually a good thing. That's how it should be.

If only we could get something similar in India.

You do remember China offered a deal on China-India border issues, 3 times offered in history.

President Xi visited India, and vice versa many times since Modi took in charge.
IK extended olive branches the day he became PM.

China gave green light to both Pakistan and India on joining Shanghai Cooperation Organization.
China and Pakistan started CPEC, and some other projects, which offered India to join in.

India is invited into and an official member of BRICS, which is the new IMF.

India has one of the largest share of voting power of AIIB, which is the new World Bank. Pakistan is member too.

I think in China world view, peace among Pakistan, China and India is the best solution for all 3 parties, and there is a position for India in the new world order.

What's the world order Yankees offered to India? QUAD. While QUAD is new NATO.

And AUKUS, which excluded India. Which means in Yankees world view, India is at most second tier countries.

In Doklam stand-off, China is very much restrained.

After Galwan Valley conflicts and Ukraine crisis, it's very clear that India is on your own. QUAD is not backing India anyway.

India is in fever of extreme nationalism and victim delusions, as well as fancy of west support, which is just hot air.

 

[Beast]

Kindly refrain from making baseless claims. There’s nothing to back up this bias. The SH-15 is not better than it’s competitors capability wise unless you can prove to me otherwise. A video doesn’t prove much in terms of technical aspects and capabilities.


You have literally no knowledge or military technology, won’t bother replying to you.

As if u got? China has no APFSDS and not know to make one? Don't know which clown says that?

FIRE! These 5 Countries Have Mastered Making Tank Ammunition

It takes an advanced weapons industry to produce good tank ammunition.

nationalinterest.org

Get out of your narrow hole and see the real world. Even Pakistan is pivot towards China. Your mindset of Chinese not able to match western in anything need to be change.

 

[vi-va]

Kindly refrain from making baseless claims. There’s nothing to back up this bias. The SH-15 is not better than it’s competitors capability wise unless you can prove to me otherwise. A video doesn’t prove much in terms of technical aspects and capabilities.


You have literally no knowledge or military technology, won’t bother replying to you.

Improve firing accuracy of unguided projectiles by 50%
Offering better dispersion level when firing regular HE projectiles.

How many artillery projectiles you ever shoot? I mean, first-hand experience? I shoot many.

I had 35 solders on my command. Old equipment, yes. But I do know artillery.