Settle Kashmir and Get the Reward!!!

[deckingraj]

Azad Kashmir does not have it's own postal service, instead Pakistan Post manages all their mail, if they made their own stamps, it would lead to confusion over they value of stamps of Kashmir as compared to the value of postage stamps published by Pakistan. Which would be quite a pickle for the post office guys, thats why Kashmiri stamps weren't published.
And Urdu is their national language for the very same reason it is ours even though Punjabi is the most widely spoken language of Pakistan, because urdu is dear to the muslims of the Indian-subcontinent.

They are also starting the national airline of Kashmir soon.

See that's why i said there is no point in talking about all this...Because no matter what i post you will not agree to it...You are talking about one link that is biased but i provided you enough links(few Pakistani sources)..

Kashmiri stamps were not published because they do not have postal service yet they are starting national airline??? Starting an Airline is more easier than having a postal service??? Also what confusion are you talking about?? Are they having different money than Pakistani rupee???

Urdu is dear to all muslims of sub-continent... wow...Seems like you guys still have not learnt from the issues in BD...One of the issues that BD muslims had during 1970's era was Urdu being compulsory and no weightage to Bengali...Care to exaplain if URDU is dear to all muslims then why it is not the most spoken language across Pakistan and for that matter Azad Kashmir??? Mind it i have nothing against the language..In fact it is beautiful(My Grandpa who was born and brought up in Pakistan always admired it, in fact before he died last year was still assertive that there is no place in India as beautiful as Lahore)


Anyways let me sum up by sharing one quote of yet another link that i am sharing

Azad Kashmir is under the indirect control of Pakistan. Its defence, foreign policy and currency are under the direct control of Pakistan.
Azad Kashmir travel guide

These links speak of "Interference" none speak of complete control,

What else you mean by a puppet government???

and you can see even that "Interference" received criticism, validating that it is not a usual phenomenon, plus your last link was so totally biased, let me write an article on life in delhi, even though I have never seen it and then lets see how accurate it is.

No it just shows politics...As far as article on delhi please feel free to share...I had no intentions to downgrade the lives of Kashmiri's or for that matter anybody...My only intentions was to show that Azad kashmir is indeed not that Azad...

Last but not the least care to explain...If Azad Kashmir is that Azad can you please explain this line from the above link

"- A small region at the Northern frontier of Gilgit-Baltistan agency, ceded to the People's Republic of China by Pakistan in 1963."

P.S : May be your definition of Free is different than Mine...Anyways strategically(geography, resources) wise it is foolish to let go Kashmir...Pakistan strategists would be nuts to let go Kashmir if they are not convinced that finally it would be under their control...Rest we two are on different boats and our perception about each other is way opposite...It would be very had to converge them so lets leave it here...

 

[Icarus]

See that's why i said there is no point in talking about all this...Because no matter what i post you will not agree to it...You are talking about one link that is biased but i provided you enough links(few Pakistani sources)..

And I accepted all of them without argument, however, the last one was biased and I stand by what I stated earlier.

Kashmiri stamps were not published because they do not have postal service yet they are starting national airline??? Starting an Airline is more easier than having a postal service??? Also what confusion are you talking about?? Are they having different money than Pakistani rupee???

The question is not whats easier, it's what's feasible, there will be no point in establishing a new mail system when an extensive network is already operating within Azad Kashmir. Starting an airline will be much more difficult but a national carrier is much more important, it screams out to the world, "Hey, We exist" !

Urdu is dear to all muslims of sub-continent... wow...Seems like you guys still have not learnt from the issues in BD...One of the issues that BD muslims had during 1970's era was Urdu being compulsory and no weightage to Bengali...Care to exaplain if URDU is dear to all muslims then why it is not the most spoken language across Pakistan and for that matter Azad Kashmir??? Mind it i have nothing against the language..In fact it is beautiful(My Grandpa who was born and brought up in Pakistan always admired it, in fact before he died last year was still assertive that there is no place in India as beautiful as Lahore)

Atleast do a little research before making wild claims, prior to partition Pakistan had two national languages, Bengali and Urdu., this can be confirmed if you check out a copy of the 1962 constitution of Pakistan.
It is spoken widely when there is inter-province reaction, however, in each province the mother tongue is spoken, Urdu was not meant to supersede all other languages, India is also a multi-lingual country in which many people cannot speak their national language, in fact In India the language changes completely after every 100km.

Azad Kashmir is under the indirect control of Pakistan. Its defence, foreign policy and currency are under the direct control of Pakistan.
Azad Kashmir travel guide

I will get back to you after reading this......

No it just shows politics...As far as article on delhi please feel free to share...I had no intentions to downgrade the lives of Kashmiri's or for that matter anybody...My only intentions was to show that Azad kashmir is indeed not that Azad...

They just impeached their PM and placed a new one in his place last year, how else can they show that they have control, even nowadays they prime minister removed the Chief Justice.

"- A small region at the Northern frontier of Gilgit-Baltistan agency, ceded to the People's Republic of China by Pakistan in 1963."

P.S : May be your definition of Free is different than Mine...Anyways strategically(geography, resources) wise it is foolish to let go Kashmir...Pakistan strategists would be nuts to let go Kashmir if they are not convinced that finally it would be under their control...Rest we two are on different boats and our perception about each other is way opposite...It would be very had to converge them so lets leave it here...

Incorrect, "Parts of Gilgit Baltistan at the border of Pakistan and China" were returned to Pakistan, bulk of the population joined Pakistan in 1948 when the rebelled against Maharaja Hari Singh's attempts to drive them out of their lands.

 

[Icarus]

Regarding the link, yes we do share a military and currency so Pakistan is bound to have SOME impact on these subjects.

 

[deckingraj]

Regarding the link, yes we do share a military and currency so Pakistan is bound to have SOME impact on these subjects.

Thanks for saying that... I will settle with it...Rest our views differ on the definition of Some...However can't help asking few questions...

What do you mean by

Incorrect, "Parts of Gilgit Baltistan at the border of Pakistan and China" were returned to Pakistan, bulk of the population joined Pakistan in 1948 when the rebelled against Maharaja Hari Singh's attempts to drive them out of their lands.

What was returned to Pakistan???Who gave you right to give away land of a so called "Azad Kashmir" in the first place??? Also for lack of my knowledge can you please tell is Gilgit Baltistan part of Azad Kashmir or Pakistan??

Atleast do a little research before making wild claims, prior to partition Pakistan had two national languages, Bengali and Urdu., this can be confirmed if you check out a copy of the 1962 constitution of Pakistan.

That's why i hate to indulge in such debates...However since you are behaving very sanely which i appreciate i will reciprocate in the same manner...

As far as research goes then here is the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_Language_Movement

This will give you an inclination that your major problem viz-a-viz East Pakistan occurred because of this notion that Urdu is dear to all muslims of Indian Subcontinent without looking at what majority of people speaks.....Now this brings back to the same question...

Why is Urdu official language in Azad Kashmir when majority speaks Pahadi??? Why will a free government not select most spoken language in their free land???

It is spoken widely when there is inter-province reaction, however, in each province the mother tongue is spoken, Urdu was not meant to supersede all other languages, India is also a multi-lingual country in which many people cannot speak their national language, in fact In India the language changes completely after every 100km.

And you are right...However our National Language is Hindi because Hindi is spoken by majority of population... Having said it there is/was lot of politics involved around this and today South Indian states don't like speaking Hindi...So even though we have a national language our official language(unofficialy)is English...

Now you may be thinking why i am telling you all this...The idea is to tell you how important is Language and Culture to a so called free society...

 

[Kinetic]

The benefits:

 No more Heavy Defense Budgets
 Smaller and batter army
 More money available to reduce poverty and hunger in both countries
 Together both the nation can rock the world.
 Peace and stability in the Region
 No more RSS, LeT, Hizbul Mujaheedin, SVP etc
 No more terror attacks like happened in Mumbai etc

1) India can easily effort that defence budget. Its much less percentage of GDP than most of the top ten military powers spend.

2) India is thinking to increase the size of the Army. We really needs to increase the size from current 1.1 million to 1.5 million at least. IA also needs more officers as well. Pakistan has much smaller economy, budget, area and population but comparably larger Army.

3) Adequate money is available, only need proper leaders (politicians), plans and management of that money.

4) Agreed.

5) How? After Kashmir there might be other problems will rise... water, terrorism, distrust, 'hegemony'.....

6) RSS, VHP will be wiped out when Indians actually learn what is best in their interest, nothing before that. RSS, VHP, LeT, Hizbul etc... all these are harmful to India more than any other country.

7) No guarantee. As mentioned above, terrorists don't talk only about Kashmir any more.

 

[KS]

India is also a multi-lingual country in which many people cannot speak their national language, in fact In India the language changes completely after every 100km.

Sorry mate...there is no such thing as national language in India as per the indian constitution.
English and Hindi in the devanagari script are the co-official langiuage
and there are 18 official languages that the state govts may use for their proceedings.

Hindi is NOT the National language of India

As for ur comment abt language change every 100km there is a popular saying in India
"There are as many languages in India as the number of ppl"

Thts India for u...

6) RSS, VHP will be wiped out when Indians actually learn what is best in their interest, nothing before that. RSS, VHP, LeT, Hizbul etc... all these are harmful to India more than any other country.

Please mate dont equate RSS,VHP with LeT or Hizbul.
They do not send 10 men in a boat to carry out a carnage in Karachi or they hijack a Pakistani flight to release their leader.
They mayb extreme in their views but pls no comparison with LeT.
RSS,VHP are not banned by United Nations.They r our internal problems and nothing of concern to Pakistan.

 

[Kinetic]

Please mate dont equate RSS,VHP with LeT or Hizbul.
They do not send 10 men in a boat to carry out a carnage in Karachi or they hijack a Pakistani flight to release their leader.
They mayb extreme in their views but pls no comparison with LeT.
RSS,VHP are not banned by United Nations.They r our internal problems and nothing of concern to Pakistan.

Mate I mean RSS, VHP etc are problem for India only not any other country. While LeT, JuD, HM are declared terrorist orgs and these are problems for India more than anyone else. India will be happy to crush RSS, VHP whenever possible for her betterment and all of them are actually problems for India only, not a matter of concern for Pakistan as he was showing elimination of them related to Kashmir solution.

Actually I should have written in more details about it.

 

[Icarus]

What was returned to Pakistan???Who gave you right to give away land of a so called "Azad Kashmir" in the first place??? Also for lack of my knowledge can you please tell is Gilgit Baltistan part of Azad Kashmir or Pakistan??

They were never given away, they were already a part of China, however historically they were linked with Gilgit Baltistan, Pakistan took the matter up with GoC and the matter was resolved with the land being returned.
Gilgit Baltistan is a part of Pakistan, since they chose to break away from Kashmir to join Pakistan in 1948, it was their request that they be made part of Pakistan.

That's why i hate to indulge in such debates...However since you are behaving very sanely which i appreciate i will reciprocate in the same manner...

As far as research goes then here is the link

Bengali Language Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This will give you an inclination that your major problem viz-a-viz East Pakistan occurred because of this notion that Urdu is dear to all muslims of Indian Subcontinent without looking at what majority of people speaks.....Now this brings back to the same question...

Why is Urdu official language in Azad Kashmir when majority speaks Pahadi??? Why will a free government not select most spoken language in their free land???

If you notice, the Bengali language movt only existed till 1958, that when Pakistan got it's first constitution and Bengali was also made a national language. Prior to that, it wasn't anything like we were imposing urdu on them, but the fact was that Pakistan was being governed by the "Indian Independance Act" which was acting as the interim constitution and it had been made by the british stating that Urdu was to be the national language.
All I can say is that Azad Kashmir chose the language because it is dear to them, if there were any other reasons I am not aware of them, I have served at Azad Kashmir and Urdu is also a widely spoken language in Azad Kashmir.

And you are right...However our National Language is Hindi because Hindi is spoken by majority of population... Having said it there is/was lot of politics involved around this and today South Indian states don't like speaking Hindi...So even though we have a national language our official language(unofficialy)is English...

Roger..

Now you may be thinking why i am telling you all this...The idea is to tell you how important is Language and Culture to a so called free society...

Cannot deny it..................

 

[Icarus]

Sorry mate...there is no such thing as national language in India as per the indian constitution.
English and Hindi in the devanagari script are the co-official langiuage
and there are 18 official languages that the state govts may use for their proceedings.

Hindi is NOT the National language of India

As for ur comment abt language change every 100km there is a popular saying in India
"There are as many languages in India as the number of ppl"

Thts India for u...

Wow................ that's a revelation to me.........thx buddy, appreciate the info........

 

[deckingraj]

Leaving rest of the post since we more or less are in agreement ....

They were never given away, they were already a part of China, however historically they were linked with Gilgit Baltistan, Pakistan took the matter up with GoC and the matter was resolved with the land being returned.

Can you share more information on bolded part???

Gilgit Baltistan is a part of Pakistan, since they chose to break away from Kashmir to join Pakistan in 1948, it was their request that they be made part of Pakistan.

Who is they here??? Anyways this is your internal politics...As far as Indian POV is concerned Gilgil Baltistan is part of J&K which is disputed territory....

 

[Icarus]

Can you share more information on bolded part???

It would be my pleasure, as you see, when Pakistan came in to being, it had border disputes with many nation, there were territories awarded to Pakistan that other nations controlled or laid claim to, for example:
NWFP(Now Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa) was claimed by Afghanistan as being Afghan territory.
Gwadar was a part of Oman
Kashmir was disputed, both Pakistan and India laid claim to it.
Similarly, there were areas of Gilgit Baltistan that were awarded to Pakistan but China had control over these areas, in 1963, Pakistan and China held bilateral talks to settle all disputes and these talks resulted in the areas which were historically and geographically a part of Gilgit Baltistan being returned by China.
Hope I managed to clear that....

Who is they here??? Anyways this is your internal politics...As far as Indian POV is concerned Gilgil Baltistan is part of J&K which is disputed territory....

"They" are the people of Gilgit Baltistan and I only told this because you had asked whether Gilgit Baltistan is a part of Azad Kashmir or not.....

 

[deckingraj]

It would be my pleasure, as you see, when Pakistan came in to being, it had border disputes with many nation, there were territories awarded to Pakistan that other nations controlled or laid claim to, for example:
NWFP(Now Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa) was claimed by Afghanistan as being Afghan territory.
Gwadar was a part of Oman
Kashmir was disputed, both Pakistan and India laid claim to it.
Similarly, there were areas of Gilgit Baltistan that were awarded to Pakistan but China had control over these areas, in 1963, Pakistan and China held bilateral talks to settle all disputes and these talks resulted in the areas which were historically and geographically a part of Gilgit Baltistan being returned by China.
Hope I managed to clear that....



"They" are the people of Gilgit Baltistan and I only told this because you had asked whether Gilgit Baltistan is a part of Azad Kashmir or not.....

Thanks for the info....Anyways as i said from Indian POV Gilgit Baltistan is a disputed territory and part of J&K which makes this Kashmir issue super complex......

 

[Icarus]

Thanks for the info....Anyways as i said from Indian POV Gilgit Baltistan is a disputed territory and part of J&K which makes this Kashmir issue super complex......

Anytime, and yes I agree, the Kashmir issue is indeed quite complex, yet it seems we were quite close to the solution.
Mr. Kasuri(Our ex-FM) recently disclosed that Pakistan and India were a signature away from declaring Kashmir an autonomous region, thus, ending this conflict once and for all, but unfortunately, the change of GoP in 2008 delayed the proceedings and the Mumbai incidents reduced the programme to a thing of the past....

 

[The HBS Guy]

Your basic premise is wrong.

Your whole discourse is based on the assumption that Pakistanis can view the issue without the tinted glasses of religion.

However, Kashmir is a relgious and hence a very emotional issue for the Pakistanis.

...and the first rule of international diplomacy is that you can't solve issues by being emotional.

In fact, looking at the larger perspective of the state of affairs in Pakistan, it becomes amply clear that the sole cause responsible for the sorry state that Pakistan today is in, is the significant role religion and emotions play in the lives of the Pakistanis and the broader boldy-politik of Pakistan.

The day Pakistanis started looking at things without being overly emotional or attaching religious hues to them, will be the day when Pakistan will become a truly great country.

Unless that happens, Pakistan will continue on the path to self-destruction.

They can learn a lot from their Chinese friends, if only they wanted to learn something.

The Chinese can teach the Pakistanis a thing or two about how to focus on nation0building rather that the emotional brouhaha.

 

[Karachiite]

The fate of Kashmir should and must be decided by the Kashmiris themselves.