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Serving Brigadier arrested for suspected links with Hizbut Tahrir

The biggest flaw is see with people arguing against arrest is that they are making their conclusion based on feeling and very little evidence, but they do not trust the PA who has all the evidence and made their decision after full investigation.

So I read a paper and some theory and to me it is more credible than any investigation.

Even worse is that it has been a trend in Pakistan and not one of incidence, they go by belief and not by evidence.
 
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Pakistan is going down the drain people.

And no leader either civilian or military gives a damn. They are buys cooking there own HALWA.

We the people of Pakistan as always will foot the bill and we will always be told to shut up and sit down and let these crooks do what ever the hell they want.

this Brigadier was arrested for having links and perhaps ''loyalties'' elsewhere.....so he is being held accountable for his actions


shouldnt Rehman Malik resigned or at least some heads rolled after the 3rd or even 10th terrorist attack in Pakistan since his party/dynasty's rule?
 
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I am sure General Kayani was not happy when he gave that order but he must have been shown something extremely solid for him to approve action against such a senior officer.Chain of Command is extremely important - We've arrested Major Generals before (before 9/11 and all this WOT) so i don't see why people are seeing this as some sort of new phenomena.Even Taiwan arrested their Major General (Chinese Spy )..We've had cases before where people tried to kill Corps Commanders and break Chain of Command and now our intel has taken pre-emptive step which is good otherwise if something had happened you guys would be blaming Intel and Army.
 
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The Brigadiers wife says he was arrested for disapproval of Kiyani's strategy and voicing overt criticism. If that's true, it looks like Kiyani is trying to do a Mushy version 2.0 by purging the army of anyone who might show dissent to what seems to be a somewhat embarrassing methodology to date.

I'd be more worried about the intricate network of CIA informants such as those picked up in Abbotabad noting down license plates and others who are coasting through our cities daily than a Brigadier voicing constructive criticism to a flawed US-booty-kissing strategy. Unless Kiyani wants his trousers taking off him again on show to the worlds stage for a second month in a row?
 
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The Brigadiers wife says he was arrested for disapproval of Kiyani's strategy and voicing overt criticism. If that's true, it looks like Kiyani is trying to do a Mushy version 2.0 by purging the army of anyone who might show dissent to what seems to be a somewhat embarrassing methodology to date.

I'd be more worried about the intricate network of CIA informants such as those picked up in Abbotabad noting down license plates and others who are coasting through our cities daily than a Brigadier voicing constructive criticism to a flawed US-booty-kissing strategy. Unless Kiyani wants his trousers taking off him again on show to the worlds stage for a second month in a row?
Well you have no problem with Army picking up those informants but have problem when Army picks up islamists who radical thoughts.That's hypocritical ???
 
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lets give the army the benefit of the doubt - but lets do ask why this Brigadier and not the policy of the army, after all, there is no more greater proponent for Islamism in Pakistan than the Pakistan army --- Maybe the army is signalling for the benefit of the foreigner and the press, but not until we see the beards shaved, the hair cut to military standards, the end to discrimination against Ahmadi and Christian soldiers and officers, strict and swift action against officers using/abusing political connections, should even begin to hope that the Pakistan armed forces have rejected Islamism.
 
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lets give the army the benefit of the doubt - but lets do ask why this Brigadier and not the policy of the army, after all, there is no more greater proponent for Islamism in Pakistan than the Pakistan army --- Maybe the army is signalling for the benefit of the foreigner and the press, but not until we see the beards shaved, the hair cut to military standards, the end to discrimination against Ahmadi and Christian soldiers and officers, strict and swift action against officers using/abusing political connections, should even begin to hope that the Pakistan armed forces have rejected Islamism.
You cannot expect the Army to take up the challenge of changing socio-cultural norms in society. These changes have to first and foremost happen in government, and gain acceptance in society.

For an unelected institution like the Army to take the step of such reforms will be an open invitation for vilification and propaganda from our political leadership, that could not even properly defend the murder of its own Governor and Minister.

Even in the US the military has been one of the last institutions to accept equal rights for homosexuals and women, and the struggle is hardly far from over.
 
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This keeps coming up (let this be the last post on this issue on this thread).

Before talking about "Shariah", its advocates need to come up with a 'Shariah Constitution' that is drafted through consensus between all schools of thought, and is put up for review and criticizm by all Pakistanis, and any concerns raised are addressed.

Only when such a 'document' outlining a potential 'Shariah System' is available can people talking about 'implementing Shariah' be taken seriously.


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well gud idea i'll let u know if we take our drafted cons to other school ulema ..
bd amni will end wen the ruler will kick america n its agencies out (this will ultimately disclose the real mujahids n the CIA trained ,ttp etc),end suporting war n warning them
ghurbat will end wen ruler will order to deprivatize public properties ..our gold, diamond coal,wapda etc and provide it on cost price,
and u know only sincere ruler will end the atta chinni bohran curent rulers (the mill owners) create
and so on
and proper colection and distribution of zakat
ceasing 300+ haram tax we pay

and islamic society does not promotes the capitalist money making policies..


And where the heck is this 'awesome Ruler' going to come from? Who is going to select him/her?
 
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Has Pakistan’s military been infiltrated by extremists?
June 22, 2011
By Imtiaz Gul

A few days after the May 2nd Abbottabad raid by the U.S. Navy SEALs, in which al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was killed, a member of the pro-Taliban Jamiat Ulemai Islam stunned other members of the Pakistani parliament by asking them to offer condolences for “the departed soul of bin Laden.” In a house of 342 members, only two others joined Maulana Asmatullah Khan in the prayer. Maulana Attaurrehman, a former minister for tourism, was also among the three bin Laden sympathisers. (Attaurrheman’s party, the JUI-F, was until recently part of the coalition government led by President Asif Ali Zardari, and has been a vocal supporter of the Afghan Taliban in the past.)

Once done with the prayers, Deputy Speaker Faisal Kareem Kundi admonished Asmatullah Khan for inviting condolence prayers without his permission. The matter died then and there.

But the incident underscored the sympathy or empathy, however limited, in Pakistan for bin Laden’s ideology. It was also reflected in the hundreds of leaflets that were distributed in the Rawalpindi cantonment, where the mighty army is headquartered, on May 15. To the surprise of many, residents found provocative pamphlets at their doorsteps, dated May 7th, and signed by Hizb ut-Tahrir, a radical outfit.

Pakistanis are well aware that their bureaucracy and judiciary are probably not immune to the radical, anti-western preachings of al Qaeda or like-minded transnational Islamist networks. Last month’s attack on a naval base in Karachi, in which a handful of militants were able to destroy two P-2 Orion aircraft, bore all the hallmarks of an inside job.

And yet it still came as a shock to many Tuesday when the Pakistani military confirmed that Brigadier Ali Khan, a senior officer serving in the Army’s General Headquarters in Rawalpindi, had been arrested for what a spokesman alleged were his “contacts with a proscribed organisation” — Hizb ut-Tahrir.

Khan’s arrest may be surprising, but most Pakistanis are unaware that the Army, particularly after five high-profile attacks — including two on former president Pervez Musharraf in 2003 – long ago instituted mechanisms to keep an eye on suspect militant-minded officers. As a consequence several, suspected officers and low-ranking soldiers have either been transferred to insignificant positions or prematurely dismissed.

And this latest episode likely doesn’t stop with Khan. A senior military official told me late Tuesday that more officers are probably being questioned for suspected links with Hizb ut-Tahrir. Khan’s arrest suggests that the Army will have to intensify its hunt for officers in key positions for possible links with outlawed jihadi outfits such as Hizb ut-Tahrir, Lashkar e-Taiba, and Jaish e-Mohammad.

The bad news of Khan’s arrest is that it underlines the presence of a radical mindset within the armed forces. The good news is that it probably also reflects new thinking: greater attention to all those who might be influenced by organisations such as Hizb ut-Tahrir and Lashkar e-Taiba. Moreover, if the army can demonstrate it has gone after suspected militant officers successfully, it might be able to release some of the pressure it currently faces from the United States, which is demanding that Pakistan do more to fight Pakistan.

Interestingly, Hizb ut-Tahrir is not native to Pakistan. It emerged from the West — cosmopolitan London, to be precise — and only later spread to South Asia. Founded in 1953 by Taqiuddin al-Nabhani, an Islamic scholar and appeals-court judge from Palestine, the organization reportedly operates in about 40 countries from Africa to Asia to Europe to Russia. Although officially non-violent, its ideas are quite radical, especially since it advocates the immediate re-establishment of the Caliphate. Hizb ut-Tahrir is active today in Western Europe and the United States, but is banned in most Muslim countries.

The group believes that the Islamic ummah — the global community of believers — is a single unit of operations. It strongly rejects nationalism and its members are supposed to fight for the umma as a whole, not the state to which they belong. So far, the organization has avoided using militant or jihadi terminology and rejects the idea of launching any sort of armed struggle in Muslim countries.

Instead, Hizb ut-Tahrir envisages a three-stage program of action, modeled after the three stages experienced by the Prophet Muhammad en route to the establishment of the first Islamic state. These are: cultivation of individuals, interaction with the ummah, and the establishment of an Islamic state and the implementation of sharia, or Islamic law.

Hizb ut-Tahrir does not favor the idea of seizing the state and then forcing society to accept Islam; rather it prefers to persuade society of the righteousness of its ideas. That, it is assumed, will lead inevitably to changes in the ruling regimes.

Since the onset of the global war on terror, Hizb ut-Tahrir has acted quickly to ramp up its operations in Pakistan through a very aggressive anti-American messaging campaign that also targeted former president Pervez Musharraf and his successor Asif Ali Zardari, whom the group aggressively paints as U.S. agentsAlmost daily, Hizb ut-Tahrir cadres send out SMS messages, emails, and faxed statements to newspapers, columnists, writers and television journalists and urges them to correct their path, shun friendship with the United States, and follow the Quran. Its narrative is virtually indistinguishable from that of other Islamist networks, such as al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood.

In countries where the party is outlawed, Hizb ut-Tahrir’s organization is said to be strongly centralized, though it is divided into networks of local committees and cells. The basic unit of the party is a cell of five members, the leader of which is called a mushrif. Only the mushrif knows the names of members of other cells.

But Hizb ut-Tahrir continues to operate openly in Britain, albeit amid a heated ongoing debate over whether it ought to be banned for its radical views. Following the July 7, 2005, bombings in London, for instance, the British government announced its intention to ban the group — and then quickly retreated. According to the Independent then Prime Minister Tony Blair “shelved the ban after warnings from police, intelligence chiefs, and civil liberties groups that it is a non-violent group, and driving it underground could backfire”; other papers reported that the Home Office believed a legal ban would not stick.

Pakistani authorities face a similar dilemma, but they benefit from the country’s weaker protections of freedom of speech and political action, and thus find it relatively easier to block activities such as rallies or press conferences. Because the United States had designated it a foreign terrorist organization, Hizb ut-Tahrir keeps a low physical profile in Pakistan and Afghanistan — though its relentless use of electronic media makes it seem almost omnipresent.

Hizb ut-Tahrir is unquestionably dangerous. Despite its claims to non-violence, its statements easily feed into the frustrations of common and ignorant Pakistanis, creating fertile ground for other, more radical groups to recruit and operate. If Brigadier General Khan was indeed a member, the world is better off with him behind bars.

Imtiaz Gul is executive director of the Centre for Research and Security Studies in Islamabad.

Source: Foreign Policy
 
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You cannot expect the Army to take up the challenge of changing socio-cultural norms in society. These changes have to first and foremost happen in government, and gain acceptance in society.

You have become adept at straw man arguments and I regret that because you are, at me, among the most persuasive, when you are actually thinking about refining your position, instead of just opposing something - the armed forces have their own code, that's why there such things as "bloody civilians" - that is to say that the armed forces have their own set of values which distinguishes it from the rest, even as it connects them to the larger society -- Will your position be open to challenge if it were to be suggested that much like individuals like Qadri were celebrated that the same will not be condemned in the armed forces?? Obviously not, because the armed forces have their own set of values and codes of military justice and discipline.



For an unelected institution like the Army to take the step of such reforms will be an open invitation for vilification and propaganda from our political leadership, that could not even properly defend the murder of its own Governor and Minister.
Even in the US the military has been one of the last institutions to accept equal rights for homosexuals and women, and the struggle is hardly far from over.

Refer to the above - to argue that politicians would have a field day, is to argue that the army are a bunch of sissies afraid of doing the right thing --- it's about doing the right things - even if they cannot find their way to doing it right away, the realization of what is the right thing to do and to seek ways to doing it - to set a wrong to right, would earn the armed forces respect - in the same way that the Air Force earned respect when it trained and qualified women pilots.


and you are exactly wrong when it comes to equal rights of women in US armed forces - it's not a question of rights as much as it is coming to terms with the appropriate role with regard to the "otherness" - though I'll grant you that the same realization has been officially slow, with regard to homosexuals, however, the US armed forces did take don't ask, don't tell seriously - what I am arguing is that there was and is a seriousness with coming to grips with a social reality and then living up to the best aspirations of the US society.
 
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ISI officer to be questioned in Pak brigadier detention case

The Pakistani military authorities have decided to investigate a senior ISI official who is the brother of Brigadier Ali Khan — a senior officer of the Pakistan Army who has been arrested for his ties to a banned Islamic militant group, Hizbul Tehrir.

The Pakistan army is also questioning four army majors about suspected links with a banned extremist group that has called for the military to oust the country’s government.

Brigadier Ali Khan, who was posted at the General Headquarters of the Pakistan Army, is being interrogated by the Special Investigation Branch of the Military Intelligence while his younger brother is a senior officer of the Inter Services Intelligence.

The authorities have included in the ongoing investigations the younger brother of Brigadier Ali Khan as well his son and son-in-law who are also captains in the Pakistan Army.

Brigadier Ali Khan comes from a family with three generations in military service, besides having a brilliant service record. While his father was a junior commissioned officer, his younger brother is a colonel in a Pakistani intelligence agency. His son and son-in-law are both army captains. Brigadier’s wife, Anjum, has rejected the allegations against him as rubbish.

“Every General knows Brigadier Ali Khan. Even Army chief General Kayani knows him,” she said. But the military circles say Brigadier Khan was arrested after getting clearance from General Kayani who was shown evidence of the Brigadier’s militant links.
 
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We have argued that the Pakistan army has been/is the major promoter of Islamism in Pakistan and that we welcome a change in this policy but look carefully at what is brewing in the Poun-jab and decide for yourself whether as AM argues the army should be a reflection of society's ills or it's best aspiration:


Nisar to Army: congratulations on having Zardari as new spokesman


Muhammad Anis
Thursday, June 23, 2011

ISLAMABAD: Opposition Leader in the National Assembly Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan on Wednesday said that President Asif Ali Zardari, who is also the supreme commander of the armed forces, used uncivilised, indecent and derogatory language for the armed forces, which has no precedence in the country’s political history.

Talking to newsmen here at his chamber in the Parliament House, Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan said the corridors of the President House were also witness to the worst language, which was uttered for the Army and generals for one-and-a-half years.

“Mr Zardari might have forgotten his statements and sayings he gave in the past to save his seat and for personal interests, but the nation still remember those,” Nisar said. The opposition leader said he congratulates the armed forces on having their new custodian and spokesman. “The Army, having a friend like Asif Zardari, does not need any enemy,” he observed.

Responding to a question about arrest of an Army officer, Nisar said he was not aware of the background of the case, but he was concerned over such atmosphere of suffocation in which every practising Muslim was doubted. “I want to say here that the basis of Pakistan armed forces were rooted in Islamic faith and belief, and the whole nation considers them custodian of Islam,” he maintained, adding that the apparent majority of armed forces was following the same agenda and manifesto.

Chaudhry Nisair stressed no such effort should be made which could create divide between secular and Islamists in the Army as it would be disastrous for both, the armed forces and country.

To a question, the PML-N leader said by calling Nawaz Sharif a “Maulvi”, Asif Ali Zardari was making a mockery of the Islamic values and faith and reflecting his moral and religious thinking.

He said his party and party leadership were proud of the fact that its politics was based on liking for Islam. “We have deviated from the real path of Islam, which is the cause of today’s problems for the country,” he said.

Nisar said it was unfortunate that the country’s affairs were in the hands of those rulers who never hesitated in ridiculing their religion and faith. “Zardari has become a symbol of negative politics and rule in the country whatever statements he gives and his tenure is not less than a misery for the people and the country,” he said, adding that Zardari and his friends would come to know the masses’ emotions when the date for general elections would be announced, saying they have brought the country on the verge of disaster, and they had also caused a big damage to the Pakistan People’s Party.

Nisar predicted that the fate of Asif Zardari would not be different from that of Pervez Musharraf as he (Zardari) had been following the same way of ruling the country. “The PML-N will contest the next elections with one-point agenda of purging the country of Zardari brand rule, corruption and his misdeeds forever,” he said. He said only those voters, who are unaware of misdeeds of Zardari, will be bitten by him for the second time.
 
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you are interpreting it that way; but its not so.

and ideology is something you keep in your heart....regardless of who you are. No need to flaunt it and wear it on your sleeves; especially if you are a soldier.

thats what you think...thats not what islam teaches us....no way we have to sit like "acha bacha, text book soldier" and retire like a duck when the pharoahs are running the affairs.
 
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Extremism within

From the Newspaper

RADICALISATION within the ranks of Pakistan`s armed forces is an issue of major concern, especially considering that the nation is currently in the midst of quelling a militant insurgency. Hence the arrest of Brig Ali Khan, probably the senior-most army officer taken into custody in nearly a decade for alleged links with extremists, should raise the alarm within the security establishment regarding the penetration of radical groups in the ranks. The army confirmed on Tuesday that the brigadier, posted at GHQ, was picked up for suspected links with Hizb ut-Tahrir. The officer was taken into custody last month; though he was under surveillance for some time, the army swooped in when the frequency of his contacts increased. Although HT has not overtly supported violence and has no ostensible links to Al Qaeda, it does call for the restoration of the caliphate and the overthrow of `corrupt, pro-West` governments in Muslim lands. It is standard HT practice in Muslim countries to recruit influential citizens, including army officers.

Though the army has said Brig Khan`s case was “an exception”, we`re not so sure. On Wednesday the DG ISPR confirmed that four army majors were being investigated in the same case. In the past, several serving or former armed forces personnel have reportedly been involved in acts of terrorism. Two army officers were reportedly court-martialled for their HT links in 2010 while a former navy commando was picked up from Lahore for allegedly aiding the PNS Mehran attackers. Several army and air force personnel were also arrested for their reported involvement in the 2003 assassination attempt targeting Gen Pervez Musharraf. So clearly, the forces have a problem with encroaching extremism. Many of the arrested men, mostly serving in the army and air force, had links to extremist Islamist groups.

During Gen Zia`s rule, the missionary Tableeghi Jamaat made inroads into the garrisons; back then it was a discipline issue as soldiers would take off on unauthorised preaching missions. Today the problem is much graver, as HT and other extremist groups call for `loyal` troops and officers to overthrow the high command. It is time for the army to do some serious soul-searching. If a serving brigadier can be co-opted, what is the extent of extremist infiltration in the lower ranks? The high command needs to intelligently counter the rising radical trend. A thorough cleansing is needed. This is undoubtedly a major challenge, as countering religiosity and a jihadi spirit that has been nurtured over decades is not easy. But it is a challenge the army must take up.

Extremism within | Newspaper | DAWN.COM


A similar thread which was "laughed" off.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/109418-wikileaks-pakistani-airmen-sabotaging-f-16s.html
 
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What does radicalization of the Pakistan Armed Forces mean? From the 80s onwards, first the US built up & supported the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, the mother of all the terrorist groups today. In the 90s, it left the region without taking care of the situation, becoming oblivious to the groups inside Afghanistan. And only after 2001, for the first time in history, the US radically changed its position, flipped the switch, & made Al-Qaeda & the Taliban their enemy, many of their members the people they supported against the Soviets. Pakistan has developed links with these groups over years due to the US policy in the first place. The people who they once regarded as heroes, became terrorists. While it is easy for the US to 'flip the switch' & start over, Pakistan (unlike the US) still lives in the neighborhood & has to deal the consequences of the actions in the region. And when the US duplicity in dealing with the Taliban is discovered; with actions such as brokering peace deals, power transferring mechanisms to the Taliban (after fighting them for so many years), & asking the UN to take off the names of senior Taliban leaders from the UN sanctions list; there will of course be some members inside the Pakistan Armed Forces that might be sympathetic towards these groups. However, the issue is being dealt with, & the Forces is being 'cleaned through'. Although this 'cleansing' process will never end till the duplicity of the US in Afghanistan doesn't end. It is also important to note that Pakistan still has to maintain some ties with these groups in order to maintain its internal security, not necessarily supporting them but having some stake in the region, just like the US is doing right now. It would be irrational for Pakistan to do otherwise. There is a very fine line between these two positions.
 
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