Separation of Mosque and State

[TMA]

The Masjid and the State are already pretty much separate; there are some weak connections.

 

[litman]

You need to spend time with the poor and mazlooms of the country ... you'll find many more

i used to think that the lower class of this country are better then the upper class. i made this opinion by seeing the fact that usually poor people go to mosques and usually rich ones go to clubs etc but then i realized that each class in pak has its own set of ills . the soul of islam cant be found in any class of people in pakistan . the poor people recite Quran and offer their prayers but only in arabic without understanding a single word of islam . islam is not set of rituals like namaz, roza, quran khawani. if you read Quran without understanding it is of no use. same is for namaz. thats why people from lower classes fall prey to jahil mullah who uses religion as his tool to fool others. women rights are grossly neglected in the lower class and they are killed in the name of islam. most of the terrorists belong to the lower class . they have emotional attachment with religion but have zero knowledge so they get brain washed easily. the upper class usually doesnt even read Quran in arabic. they believe what they see on TV and read in science books. they dont have even emotional attachment with religion . for them religion is just a set of rituals. they are blind folded by the materialism of this world and the race to get ahead becomes the ultimate aim of life.
remember islam is not just set of rituals. you wont get anything by reading Quran in a language you dont understand. that's why i said before that a muslim is the one WHO KNOWS ISLAM AND WHO LIVES ISLAM.

 

[TMA]

Do you even know what Secularism means ??

Nationalism and Capitalism indeed have killed a lot of people

And now it is Islamism ... killing people From Philippines to Americas

The USSR was not a capitalist system neither a nationalist. It was but an atheist internationalist socialist system,

 

[ashok mourya]

A good example of separating religion from state is China only...I don't see others!!!!!

 

[HAIDER]

In Pakistan democracy can be flourish , if all state institutions work " independently " ....example SC provide justice
" without delay" .

 

[M. Sarmad]

The USSR was not a capitalist system neither a nationalist. It was but an atheist internationalist socialist system,

That's why it failed

What's your point ?

 

[war&peace]

And You, sir, are a class A idiot who has no idea what he is talking about

@Zaki

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think there is no problem in People who follow religion to be in Government

• However , we need to ensure that Wahabism does not gets spread in Pakistan

We need reformation

1- The Wahabist mentality where Music is Haram , and Driving for Women is haram or Long hair is Harm , or any thing Of joy of living is harm need to "NOT BE IN PAKISTAN"

2- The Capital Punishment , has to be evaluated by Lawyers (As it is part of faith to modify punishment or law for governence of people by general consensus.

3. While I am Sunni I have some strong reservation on Wahabist destroying Islamic heritage sites world wide , this has to stop , at same time we need modesty in our culture with respect to "Culture" of visiting Shrines. Be Humble

4. The Black Robe culture we imported from Gulf states need to end and the caged Robe for women we imported from Afganistan also had to end.

5. Last but not least we need to stop with the Hypocracy , free loading by Mullas who do no work and just get donation form community to run Mosques like a Business

6. Strong Strong reservation of Designating Shia Muslims as negative force as defined by many Gulf states , I do not agree with this in principle


Pakistani Government & People really need to Go back to their own roots

• Education , which won us freedom in 1900
  
• Political Movement , positive social work and community work
  
• Focus on Hospitals and Improving the cities and culture of society we own now

Provided the Man in Government office believe in three Golden Rules

• Education - Social Work - Hospitals & Service

That is what we need!

Normal Pakistani culture

This Wahabism is not Pakistan's culture

Wahabism spread globally around 1800-1900 , Pakistan was generally shielded by it's effects as
we were part of British Empire and also it was generally not a practice in Pakistan to act like this

In last 20-30 Years the Pakistani community working in Wahabist countries are coming back to Pakistan with Imported views about dress code and this is further problometic due to Wahabist
Schools which were sponsored by Outside countries


Most of the Wahabist idealogies do not match what was generally acceptable in Society by Muslims

• There are various accounts people had long hair back in old time
• Also there is ample proof that the Rich Muslims enjoyed various clothes and fashion
• Also ample example of people in past culture who enjoyed Music instruments

Anyone who call himsself a "Mulwi" actually need to be educated Bachelors !!! from a Recognized university that Teaches the man on all aspect of religion and not focused on Wahabism

 

[xenon54 out]

But you understand the other half?

Which other half?

 

[TMA]

That's why it failed

What's your point ?

My point is what Allama Iqbal had said in his poetry:

جلال پادشاہی ہو کہ جمہوری تماشا ہو
جدا ہو دیں سیاست سے تو رہ جاتی ہے چنگیزی

The USSR was a secular state where religion and her way life was oppressed.

 

[Khanate]

The most advanced and developed countries in the world are secular.

And they have killed the most number of people in the world as well. Start with Hitler and move to Stalin and Pol Pot. Real peaceful lot!

 

[YeBeWarned]

We have seen how a Established Islamic Govt works back in the times of Prophet and the 2 Rashidun Caliphates .. i am yet to see a Democracy who has their " Daaman " clean from innocents blood ..

I am in favor of the so called Preached by the Mullah's of Pakistan and other countries which itself is corrupt from its core , but if someone offer me the times of the Hazart Umar ibn Khattab than i have no reason not to give it a chance .

 

[M. Sarmad]

My point is what Allama Iqbal had said in his poetry:

جلال پادشاہی ہو کہ جمہوری تماشا ہو
جدا ہو دیں سیاست سے تو رہ جاتی ہے چنگیزی

Iqbal ?

Iqbal says about separation of state and church/mosque (i.e secularism) that:

Islam, as a religio-political system, no doubt does permit such a view ...

(Reconstruction of Religious thought in Islam)

The USSR was a secular state where religion and her way life was oppressed.

Failure of USSR in implementing secularism and socialism is the failure of the Russians, not a failure of Secularism or Socialism

Just as the failure of Muslim Countries in the contemporary world is a failure of Muslims, not Islam

 

[Baba Google]

I support democracy, but with Islamic blend.

 

[xenon54 out]

The USSR was a secular state where religion and her way life was oppressed.

Secularism doesnt tell you to oppress religion, its just separating state and religion and nothing else, secularism in its true sense is ensuring that everyone has the right to live his life as he pleases which includes living your religion as you wish as long as you keep it for yourself.

USSR was oppressive in every sense not only against religion and its cause was definately not secularism.