Senior Taliban leader rejects Pakistan's western border

[ThunderCat]

There's always another perspective.

One cannot deny that much of modern conflicts in the world have roots in colonialism and its aftermath.

The Af-Pak region would not be divided furthermore. It's on a projected path to a federation level integration for many decades now.

Pakistan may or may not have the capacity to integrate Afghanistan but it absolutely does not have either to divide and rule it.

No Afghans cannot be integrated. All the problems they bring.

 

[AA_]

First, he’s using smart language and covering all of his bases with the domestic and Pakistani audience, and secondly, the stupidity is not integrating Afghanistan with Pakistan economically from the start as a leverage. But You chose to isolate them because you’re corrupt, sleazy, and can’t think for yourselves and some of you are cowards to the core like your Indian brethrens.

You think the Afghan are beigherets like the Pakistanis establishment who will sell away their kinfolk like Pakistan did to IOK? I’m hoping they take over Pakistan. Phuck you ethnic rats on this threads

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

Then unite both Pakistan and Afghanistan to solve the problem.

 

[PradoTLC]

@Bleek

Afghanistan should be annihilated mercilessly,

How do you propose to do that?

Regards

Nuke um

 

[FuturePAF]

Deport all the ones in our country and seal the border.

It’s not a realistic solution for a number of reasons.

What we need is a political force/coalition, made up of the permanent local power brokers in KPK and Baluchistan to state the border is their border.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Bleek @PradoTLC

Nuke um

Afghanis dont stay in a few cities- they are distributed over 10s of 1000s of villages, hamlets and caves all over. You would end up exhausting all your nukes and then be a sitting duck for the Indians. Doesnt seem a wise move.

Regards

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

More Pashtuns live in Pakistan it's logical for Afghanistan to merge into Pakistan.

 

[PradoTLC]

@Bleek @PradoTLC

Nuke um

Afghanis dont stay in a few cities- they are distributed over 10s of 1000s of villages, hamlets and caves all over. You would end up exhausting all your nukes and then be a sitting duck for the Indians. Doesnt seem a wise move.

Regards

Ok so cluster bombs

 

[El Sidd]

Salam

Walaykum Salam

In my humble opinion the idea might sound crazy but possible. As a Muslim first I would love this to happen but as an Islamic Gov with Islamic- principles. Millions of Pashtun this idea will bond many nations with historical links to one another and solve a lot of disputes As the Durand line will always be a hurdle for Pakistan and Afghanistan relationship. This will cause our enemies to burn you know who we are talking about, if trashy Modi wants Hindutva BS , why can’t we aim for two brotherly nation to become one.

It's not crazy at all. It's a viable option available historically for both governments from the 50s.

Be careful what you wish for. Afghanistan is a country where 95% of the population ( and I assume this includes women ) believe that women should not work outside the home. in which case, there is no need for girls to be educated either. Infact better not to be educated.

There is no future for a country such as this.

Better they are left to their own devices with a barbed wire border between the two countries .... In twenty years when these women have produced 8 children each and theIr population can no longer be fed, that is the time we shoot to kill at the border.

No Afghans cannot be integrated. All the problems they bring.

The posed challenges for both societies are great but not necessarily insurmountable. Pakistani society has the given flexibility and potential. It works on functions of a super-nation rather than just a nation.

 

[ThunderCat]

The posed challenges for both societies are great but not necessarily insurmountable. Pakistani society has the given flexibility and potential. It works on functions of a super-nation rather than just a nation.

Go ask Iranians if they want unification with Afghans. Go ask Central Asian countries. Go ask countries besides Pakistan that have loads of Afghan immigrants and see how they like their behavior there.

No thanks. Afghanistan should be dismantled. Afghans should be eliminated.

 

[Lincoln]

No power has been able to control Afghans in the last 200 years. Pakistan has made many errors while dealing with Afghan issue. Those are the ones that are affecting Paksiatn badly.

Trying to annihilate it may be the biggest of those mistakes.

Your nation is in a catch 22 situation. A military solution to it may not be the way out.

Afghanistan was probably the first nation to initiate hostilities with Pakistan when they voted against Pakistan's inclusion in the UN. They launched skirmishes into Pakistani territories, instigated tribal populations, funded and armed proxy groups, and turned up the heat every 10 years. I personally don't believe that a stable Afghanistan would've been more reasonable, and accepted the Durand line as the legal border although it is.

Then the whole Soviet invasion happens to support PDPA, who overthrew the then monarch Daoud who was the also the emir in 1947 and the initiator of these hostilities over the Durand Line, and who was very bent on the idea of pushing the boundary to the Indus River even in the 1970s. But the coming communist government backed by the Soviets wasn't reasonable either, they also had a very anti-Pakistan stance and did not accept the line as the legitimate border. The internal conflict was a result of their own doings, and Pakistan being a major non-NATO ally followed suit with rest of the NATO members and only did its part in the war against the Soviet Union whose invasion was condemned by the international community worldwide. I don't know whose brainchild were the Mujahideen, the CIA or the ISI, but I believe it was probably both since it was an idea and concept first used by the Afghans, and I have no doubt that both the agencies (correct me if I am wrong, I don't know when ISI was formed but when I use ISI/agency, you can assume the I mean the intelligence apparatus of Pakistan) were collecting information on Afghanistan since it was a Soviet ally who also (due to Daoud's policies) also threatened Pakistan, an American ally.

After the invasion ends, the internal conflict that follows it also is due to their internal differences, but this time ethno-religious. Certain political ethnic groups were unhappy with the other and in this civil war the Taliban emerged, whose philosophy was religious superiority. Every ethnic religious group during this civil war, after the establishment of the Islamic State of Afghanistan (ISA), was reportedly supported by some nation. One group was said to be supported by Iran, one by Uzbekistan, one by Pakistan (the Taliban), and naturally if Iran is involved, Saudi Arabia is also, who were said to be supporting the main central Government of ISA. The ISA was formed by the Mujahideen (this is really a collective of all the different fighter groups) and so unhappy, some due to religious reasons, some due to ethnic reasons, they all diverged and the civil war broke out. The result was that the Taliban won the civil war and formed the IEA.

Yet for some reason all the blame for the crisis, for both during, and after the Soviet Invasion, goes to Pakistan. As if Pakistan had no right to interfere. Every other neighboring country naturally interfered in the civil war because the invasion created a refugee crisis and threatened a worse one (the most insane part is that the PDPA Government and Soviet Jets were trying to carpet bomb even refugee shelters in Pakistan), and no country in the neighbourhood was financially ready to take that. So everyone wanted the conflict to come to a conclusion, and end in peace. For Pakistan, the stakes were higher, perhaps that's why they chose to support what they saw as the least ethno-nationalist (more religious), as they would be the least expansionist in the future and would not threaten its territorial integrity, on top of that, stability in Afghanistan would be better for Pakistan. I should mention I don't know what kind of support this would be, financial, intelligence, military, the details are unknown and secret, as they're with how other nations supported the other groups. In summary though, given the history, the financial situations, larger priorities to the east, Pakistan was in its full right to interfere as did the other nations. The reason Pakistan gets all the blame is because the Taliban won the conflict.

While other ethnicities in Afghanistan do not care for the Durand Line and were critical of such hostile policies, they probably hold a negative sentiment of Pakistan by now due to the whole civil war and proxy crisis. Even without the whole Durand Line conflict, the internal conflicts were the catalysts of this destruction. Durand Line is not what caused the Soviet Invasion, and it wouldn't have stopped the American response either, and that wouldn't have stopped the civil war that followed either.

My reply does not seek to morally justify supporting the Taliban, even then we don't know to what extent, or supporting the Mujahideen. It is rather to explain the context, perhaps this was the best outcome from a political point of view. But then again, these internal conflicts were not initiated by Pakistan, and neither was the aggression over the border initiated by Pakistan, unlike how many people peddle it, this conflict is not recent and without reason. It goes back way beyond Pakistan's creation even when refugees from British India were thrown back by the then emir of Afghanistan, followed by their unending hostilities over the border with Pakistan. Even if these conflicts did not occur, Afghanistan's stance towards the border would not change, the conflict would not stop, it would be propagated more in fact. So, no I wouldn't term it a mistake.

Also, on a side note: The reason Pakistan gets most of the hate and blame is because, their "supported" faction won, propaganda and distortion of history internally has gone a long way with this, and moreover because they're inherently racist towards Indians combined with their inability to cope with the present given their long invasion-ridden history, their hate blinds them so much that not even religiously sanctioned places would be safe from their hatred where they shout curses at the mention of Pakistan in prayers. It is difficult to have regard for such people.

 

[imadul]

Dumbness have been committed by khaki wardi, a making of 50 years.
Question is how to undo it? Or is it even possible?

And some people here were like "Why are Taliban bad,they are religious Muslims! It's their country,they decide what to do! They kicked America out of Afghanistan!"

Any trust in afghan was the screw up of the century.
...and religious bigotry is universally destructive.

 

[Redbeanpaste]

The real problem is going to start in 10-20 years when the Afghan population has increased by a 100 million or so and so has ours.

 

[TheSolution]

The real problem is going to start in 10-20 years when the Afghan population has increased by a 100 million or so and so has ours.

The real problem will begin as soon as Afghanistan gets access to modern military technology and gets some kind of intelligence aparatus set up.

It is going to begin the same old game again inside Pakistan. I don't know why these jernails and politicians keep letting the same thing repeat.

 

[PradoTLC]

It was OUR fault that we didn't treat them like the enemies that they were

Correction it was general Zia’s fault 100%. When the soviets invested he should have done what Iran did and we would not have a problem…

But then Zia is a person that has given Pakistan nothing but headaches including MQM and Nawj sharif..

Think some people still support nawaz and he has been nothing but a disaster for Pakistan