Secularists should 'mend ways or leave country', says PTI lawmaker

[The Sandman]

Let's make a trade, I'll trade you 3,000 pure blood Amurekan Bible Belt Christians for @Armstrong , @The Sandman , @Akheilos , @django , @Hell hound , @Gufi , and @Moonlight .

 

[Verve]

Guys ..... let's really simplify things .....

Please specify EXACTLY what you think should be allowed and not allowed in your desired version of Liberal / Secular state laws for Pakistan.

Just fire away ... let's really understand in terms of the very specific laws instead of this aayen bayeen shayeen.

Please post a list of everything you can think of that should be legal and illegal.

 

[VCheng]

The above discussion poses a very important question:

What makes for the assumption that it is the duty of the State to enforce the Quranic Laws rather than Muslims following them voluntarily?

In the example above, should the State be responsible for ensuring that male believers marry only female believers? How does it do that? A form? Reciting the Shahadah? A certificate by the local mullah?

 

[Verve]

The above discussion poses a very important question:

What makes for the assumption that it is the duty of the State to enforce the Quranic Laws rather than Muslims following them voluntarily?

In the example above, should the State be responsible for ensuring that male believers marry only female believers? How does it do that? A form? Reciting the Shahadah? A certificate by the local mullah?

What do you think the law should be? As requested above, please do participate with your own list of legal and illegal.

 

[VCheng]

What makes enforcement of Quranic Law a duty of the State when "there is no compulsion in religion"?

 

[Hell hound]

Let's make a trade, I'll trade you 3,000 pure blood Amurekan Bible Belt Christians for @Armstrong , @The Sandman , @Akheilos , @django , @Hell hound , @Gufi , and @Moonlight .

now they are going to tag us all as american or western agents

 

[Verve]

What makes enforcement of Quranic Law a duty of the State when "there is no compulsion in religion"?

I was talking of the application of such Quranic laws on Muslims.

What do you think the law should be? Please stop being silly for once and give a concise answer instead of asking question in reply.

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

now they are going to tag us as american or western agents

Which only proves their intelligence.

 

[Finer]

You are good at refusing clear and concise answers. So I will really simplify it for you below.

'Do not marry unbelieving women' - this is what Allah says explicitly and this is also Shariah. Now, do you think that a liberal/secular state should enforce that law on muslims or not?

Allah says 'do not', not 'may not' .. plz note that.

Shariah is the political ideology. It has nothing to do with Islam at all. Do you agree with ISIS/TTP? No, right. Why? Because they are anti-Islam by actions which they practice upon Shariah as their political ideology.

I think you are confused. It is Islam that states Do not marry unbelieving women in Holy Quran. It is suggestion, rule if you will. At the end, it is still your choice whether to marry unbelieving women or not. Only GOD has the rights to judge us, not barbaric conservative culture not you and i nor liberal either.

Just to clarify more; GOD didn't say that don't marry unbelieving women because GOD hates them. GOD doesn't hate mankind since GOD created the mankind, the whole world and everything in it.

That verse meant that it is not marriage in legal if both party don't believe in the SAME GOD. Both party must believe in SAME GOD in order to qualify for the legality of the marriage. More specifically, it has to be man and woman [Adam & Eve], and both must believe in SAME GOD. Otherwise, the marriage is not legal in the eyes of Islam.

It is same Islam that also states no coercion in marriage, life and faith. Liberal/Secular believes that, but Shariah as political ideology begs to differ which is now being used as front by terrorist-outfit aka TTP/ISIS.

 

[The Sandman]

now they are going to tag us all as american or western agents

Yea now we're confirmed western liberal jewish bla bla agent

Which only proves their intelligence.

You forgot to tag @Zibago

Why not enforce Shariah on yourself after all it's more like guidelines for Muslims.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/qasim...e-five-things-every-non-muslim_b_1068569.html

 

[VCheng]

The premise that application of what the Quran says for its believers to follow is a duty of the State is flawed. Compulsion by the State is against the Quran itself.

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

You forgot to tag @Zibago

Oh yeah, that will require an additional 428 Amurekans.

 

[Verve]

Shariah is the political ideology. It has nothing to do with Islam at all. Do you agree with ISIS/TTP? No, right. Why? Because they are anti-Islam by actions which they practice upon Shariah as their political ideology.

I think you are confused. It is Islam that states Do not marry unbelieving women in Holy Quran. It is suggestion, rule if you will. At the end, it is still your choice whether to marry unbelieving women or not. Only GOD has the rights to judge us, not barbaric conservative culture not you and i nor liberal either.

It is same Islam that also states no coercion in marriage, life and faith. Shariah as political ideology begs to differ.

So basically what you are saying is that Muslims should be free-thinkers, and not so stuck up on Quranic laws as those are merely 'recommendations/suggestions', yes?

The premise that application of what the Quran says for its believers to follow is a duty of the State is flawed. Compulsion by the State is against the Quran itself.

So a state should permit and recognise muslims having a hindu wedding ceremony without a Nikkah or a church wedding or any way one deems suitable?

 

[Finer]

So basically what you are saying is that Muslims should be free-thinkers, and not so stuck up on Quranic laws as those are merely 'recommendations/suggestions', yes?

Holy Quran encourages Muslims to be free thinkers. It is not the question of going against Islam. Even if you have to question against Islam for the sake of curiosity, then so be it. GOD encourages the people with curiosity to seek information. Otherwise, how else are you going to discover the truth?

There is the reasons why Islam has produced many scientists in the past that changed the game and gave new face for Golden Age of Islam.

Advice from Prophet Muhammad (PBUH);

Even if you have to go to China to obtain knowledge, then so be it.

Knowledge of any kinds must not be discouraged. It is sign of progression. Those who prohibits knowledge is the sign of ignorance which leads to darkness eventually. Light means knowledge, and ignorance means darkness.

Another advice from Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) came into my mind which i read long time ago;

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) wanted us to be competitive in any fields whether Islam education, western education or Chinese education, you name it. He (PBUH) wanted us to be competitive in knowledge field that benefits mankind.

 

[VCheng]

Marriage? The State should not even force restaurants to close during Ramadan. It is up to the followers to decide when to fast and where to eat, not the State.