Secularists should 'mend ways or leave country', says PTI lawmaker

[WaLeEdK2]

 

[M. Sarmad]

Pakistan was established as an Islamic Republic in it's founding documents.

Our first constitution made Pakistan an Islamic Republic, and hell, even before independence--declaration of Pakistan in 1933 by Chaudry Rehmat Ali clearly stated a demand for a separate nation based on religious reasons.

Here, the full text


3, Humberstone Road,
Cambridge, England.
28 January 1933

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am enclosing herewith an appeal on behalf of the thirty million Muslims of PAKISTAN, who live in the five Northern Units of India—Punjab, North-West Frontier (Afghan) Province, Kashmir, Sind, and Baluchistan. It embodies their demand for the recognition of their national status, as distinct from the other inhabitants of India, by the grant to Pakistan of a separate Federal Constitution on religious, social and historical grounds.

I shall be pleased if you will kindly acquaint me with your valuable opinion on the proposed solution of the great Hindu-Muslim problem. I trust that, vitally interested as you are in a just and permanent solution of that complex problem, the objects outlined in the appeal wiIl meet with your fullest approval and active support.

Yours truly, Rahmat Ali (Choudhary). (Founder, Pakistan National Movement)

Does all of this sound to you as an plea for a 'secular' nation?

Look, you can fool yourself and create a myth for your psychological stability. But please, don't peddle your lies on us.

Pakistan was meant to be an Islamic state. Pakistan was declared an Islamic Republic in its founding documents. Pakistan will stay an Islamic Republic, Inshallah.

Please, stop banging your head on the wall for no reason.

Ch Rehmat Ali ?? Since when did he become founding father of Pakistan or "Now or Never" became Pakistan's founding document ?? He only coined the word "Pakstan" ... Ch. Rehmat Ali was a religious bigot, his idea of Pakstan was that of an "Islamic Theocracy" ...... Jinnah didn't agree with Rahmat's ideology ..... Rahmat did not agree with Jinnah and his vision


Jinnah was against disintegration of any part of Indian territory originally and he in fact ridiculed the idea of Pakistan and rebuffed Rahmat Ali who sought Jinnah`s support for the formation of a separate state for the Muslims ..

It was the first session of the third Round Table Conference that Ch. Rahmat Ali distributed leaflets advocating Pakistan to the British members of parliament and the Indian delegates . All the Muslim delegates opposed Rahmat`s plans . Jinnah ridiculed it

Rahmat Ali invited Jinnah to a black-tie dinner at London`s Waldorf Hotel in the spring of 1933 . He had arranged Banquet with its oysters and un-Islamic chablis at his own expense hoping to persuade Jinnah to take over his movement . But Rahmat received a "chilly rebuff"

Annoyed and agitated , he described Jinnah as the Boozna (a baboon) of Bombay

Jinnah later borrowed the ideal of Rahmat Ali , his arguments and his nomenclature without even naming him .

Jinnah was bitterly criticized and called a traitor by Rahmat Ali .

Ali issued a pamphlet on 9 jun 1947 regarding Pakistan and the main target of attack was Jinnah :

"In accepting the British plan , Mr Jinnah has acted the Judas and betrayed , bartered and dismembered the Millat ........ His crime is too black to be whitewashed ... its consequences are too calamitous to be forgotten by the Millat ... his attempts are too crude to deceive history " (K.K. Aziz , Rahmat Ali - A biography p.262)

Rahmat also said :
"We found all our hopes reduced to dust and ashes by the folly and foul play of one man alone Quisiling-i-Azam-Jinnah "(K.K. Aziz , Rahmat Ali - A biography p.323)

 

[Kambojaric]

Populism, the curse of democracy.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Its funny I was talking to my parents and they mentioned their forefathers mentioned to them the religious fanatic folks were not in favor of formation of Pakistan. They even oppose kids to go get educated in schools

It was really the Educated , muslims (Who mingled with British in schools or schools created by like of Sir Syed etc) who participated in politics and sent their kids in schools who finally decided the fate of national decision.

And it was really the working class educated class who finally tilted the blance in formation of Pakistan based on future nation where certain obectives could be met a more safe environment to live freely as Muslims

Organizations like JI was formed around 1972 just for the record

Seems like a quite educated fella

quite educated and leaders

And again very cultured

Fairly bright educated folks

 

[Finer]

Pakistan was established as an Islamic Republic in it's founding documents.

Our first constitution made Pakistan an Islamic Republic, and hell, even before independence--declaration of Pakistan in 1933 by Chaudry Rehmat Ali clearly stated a demand for a separate nation based on religious reasons.

Here, the full text


3, Humberstone Road,
Cambridge, England.
28 January 1933

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am enclosing herewith an appeal on behalf of the thirty million Muslims of PAKISTAN, who live in the five Northern Units of India—Punjab, North-West Frontier (Afghan) Province, Kashmir, Sind, and Baluchistan. It embodies their demand for the recognition of their national status, as distinct from the other inhabitants of India, by the grant to Pakistan of a separate Federal Constitution on religious, social and historical grounds.

I shall be pleased if you will kindly acquaint me with your valuable opinion on the proposed solution of the great Hindu-Muslim problem. I trust that, vitally interested as you are in a just and permanent solution of that complex problem, the objects outlined in the appeal wiIl meet with your fullest approval and active support.

Yours truly, Rahmat Ali (Choudhary). (Founder, Pakistan National Movement)

Does all of this sound to you as an plea for a 'secular' nation?

Look, you can fool yourself and create a myth for your psychological stability. But please, don't peddle your lies on us.

Pakistan was meant to be an Islamic state. Pakistan was declared an Islamic Republic in its founding documents. Pakistan will stay an Islamic Republic, Inshallah.

Please, stop banging your head on the wall for no reason.

That doesn't change the fact that Islam is technically Secular/Liberal judging by the Holy Quran. Islamic Republic also means Secular/Liberal; not conservative which people are desperate to link with Islam even though Islam crushed the conservative mindset 1400 years ago and promoted equality, gave new face for women, and endorsed knowledge [meaning any knowledge].

People are desperately trying to link the conservative ideology with Pakistan even though Pakistan is executed by the founder father who had secular background, and even vouched for the secularism or by the definition of secularism by stating in clear manner that Pakistan is made for Muslims, but even Non-Muslims are equally welcome for Pakistan and they have same rights just as Muslims in Pakistan do. Jinnah stressed over this part long enough to differentiate from India why Pakistan was needed. It wasn't just about Muslim only; rather it was about equality which forced Jinnah (R.A) to abandon the political party that has been hijacked by political ideology fueled by religion-ish.

That was his vision for Pakistan which are being hijacked by those kind of groups that was against Pakistan to begin with. Those who [Ahmedhiya community] supported Jinnah and his Pakistan are now being marginalized and harassed by the same kind of groups that objected Pakistan and Jinnah [because of his background].

 

[Hell hound]

And peope please stop labelling these vermins as liberals, liberalism is a phenomina that advocates negation of caste system, economic uplift of humans, equal oppurtunites to all and equal justice for all regardless of power or post, liberalism never actually stood for naked women, drunk loafers, rampant drugs, godlessness, feminism and disintegration of the nuclear family and traditional household, capitalists have hijacked liberalism to generate money through filth and what better way to justify it than labeling it as liberalism, muslims and islam were the greatest liberals ever to have walked the earth, label these vermins as secular fascists cause thats what they actually are..

don't know why people here start jumping up and down after hearing the word liberal while me @The Sandman @Zibago @Musafir117 and many other liberal fellows over here has many times explained our intentions(truth be told i am tired of doing it again and again) and the meaning of the word liberal here

here read this article written by me and explained by my fellow PDF liberals what our views are.we are not the enemy of the state nor we are paid agents as most of you guys believe.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-does-being-a-liberal-means.477426/

 

[The Sandman]

don't know why people here start jumping up and down after hearing the word liberal while me @The Sandman @Zibago @Musafir117 and many other liberal fellows over here has many times explained our intentions(truth be told i am tired of doing it again and again) and the meaning of the word liberal here

here read this article written by me and explained by my fellow PDF liberals what our views are.we are not the enemy of the state nor we are paid agents as most of you guys believe.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-does-being-a-liberal-means.477426/

Not worth it yr not worth it people who've lived their whole lives listening to conspiracy theories are taught to hate and abuse those who even slightly disagrees with them aren't gonna change their thinking no matter how many explanations we give.

 

[Finer]

don't know why people here start jumping up and down after hearing the word liberal while me @The Sandman @Zibago @Musafir117 and many other liberal fellows over here has many times explained our intentions(truth be told i am tired of doing it again and again) and the meaning of the word liberal here

here read this article written by me and explained by my fellow PDF liberals what our views are.we are not the enemy of the state nor we are paid agents as most of you guys believe.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-does-being-a-liberal-means.477426/

Thanks for the link. I am glad you even posted the clarification about liberal. It is scary to see what ignorance does with Pakistan. I am afraid our stances on the liberal/secular might fall on deaf ears for the time being. That shouldn't stop us from repeating to serve reminder what true Liberal means in general. Keep up the good work.

I am beginning to think those people may have caught Indian spirits who openly mocks at secularism ever since Modi came to the power. Not only that, they have fun word for secular now; sickular.

 

[Hell hound]

Not worth it yr not worth it people who've lived their whole lives listening to conspiracy theories are taught to hate and abuse those who even slightly disagree with them aren't gonna change their thinking no matter how many explanations we give.

yar i was away from this thread for the same reason i too am tired from all the parroting that i have to do. but don't know why i still can't lose hope with the PDF guys.i still think we can change some views here

 

[The Sandman]

i still think we can change some views here

That's why i keep participating in these types of threads.

 

[Finer]

That's why i keep participating in these types of threads.

Good news that liberal will succeed, hence the prophecy of Greater Pakistan. So keep up the good work, and hopefully in the nearest future, people may judge liberal outlook in good ways, God Willing.

 

[MAB]

According to most Pakistani's Secularism/liberalism=Atheism. Its funny how many people living in foreign countries themselves want Pakistan to be a so called "Islamic State" while they enjoy the freedom of secular nations themselves.

 

[Hell hound]

Thanks for the link. I am glad you even posted the clarification about liberal. It is scary to see what ignorance does with Pakistan. I am afraid our stances on the liberal/secular might fall on deaf ears for the time being. That shouldn't stop us from repeating to serve reminder what true Liberal means in general. Keep up the good work.

I am beginning to think those people may have caught Indian spirits who openly mocks at secularism ever since Modi came to the power. Not only that, they have fun word for secular now; sickular.

thanks mate
let the economy grow for few years.when the bellies of our people will be filled only then they will be truly driven by the thirst for knowledge and better future.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) lawmaker Ali Muhammad Khan caused a stir on Wednesday when he advised those believing Pakistan to be a secular state to mend their ways or leave the country.



“Whoever wants to turn Pakistan into a secular state should mend their ways or move to such a country,” the MNA said during a talk show on 92News.

Screen grab from the talk show

According to Ali, the country was not established on any secular ideology, and rather an Islamic ideology was its basis.

“What did the founder of the nation, Quaid-e-Azam, wanted to be the basis of the country,” the member National Assembly said. “This country was created only in the name of Islam.”

‘Pakistan is different from all other states created in the name of religion’

Not only does Islam hold the basis of Pakistan, the country has the blood of numerous martyrs in its soil, he added.

The politician went on to say that people working on the behest of the enemy, assert that we as a nation should only put own house in order and forget the rest. “We should put our house in order as well as be concerned about what’s happening around the world.”

While some say that the founder of the nation, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, wanted a secular state not governed by a specific religion, others argue he wanted an Islamic welfare state.

This PTI speaker has said the right thing.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Its funny I was talking to my parents and they mentioned their forefathers mentioned to them the religious fanatic folks were not in favor of formation of Pakistan. They even oppose kids to go get educated in schools

It was really the Educated , muslims (Who mingled with British in schools or schools created by like of Sir Syed etc) who participated in politics and sent their kids in schools who finally decided the fate of national decision.

And it was really the working class educated class who finally tilted the blance in formation of Pakistan based on future nation where certain obectives could be met a more safe environment to live freely as Muslims

Organizations like JI was formed around 1972 just for the record

Seems like a quite educated fella

quite educated and leaders

And again very cultured

Fairly bright educated folks

Fairly modern and quite westernized and it is OK

I was informed that the "fanatical" elements of that time used to criticize Pakistani leaders for being very westernized as well