Secularists should 'mend ways or leave country', says PTI lawmaker

[Verve]

If you haven't then you should give a reading to Allama Tamana Amadi's (Tasweer ka doosra rukh). Plus Abdul Wadud, Shabir Ahmed, G.A. Perwez, Uzair and many others.

Thanks for recommendations. I will add these writers to the list of books I intend to explore/ buy on next visit to Pakistan.

My dad has a large library with a substantial collection of Islamic books, from last 45+ years. Unfortunately I'm not in Pakistan to tap into that database. Some day, Inshallah.

 

[I.R.A]

But I won't blame you. You, just like many others here, are a victim of state-sponsored religious-chauvinistic indoctrination via distortion.

إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعونَ‎‎

Thank you for your time and putting in so much effort.

 

[Jugger]

No society, even in a country like Saudi Arabia; comprises of everyone one having exactly the same views. There are always members who will have different opinions on various issues. It is expected that one of the basic purpose of education is acceptance of pluralistic cultural, ethnic & religious values. Apparently not so in Pakistan, here highly educated leaders are threatening to expel citizens who hold secular views.

The people who use the gun to impose their views on the society are called terrorists. But the root cause of terrorism is “Radicalism”. We witnessed radicalism in action by the student wing of Jamaat Islami when they attacked the Pashtun Culture program at Punjab University campus.” I call radicalism a manifestation of the extremist and intolerant mind-set where opposing views and cultural values are not acceptable Today you are saying that secularists have no place, tomorrow it could be that Shias have no place and next week that Braelvis have no place in Pakistan either, where is the end?

Excellent posts Sir.

The irony of the Muslims in Pakistan doing to their minorities and themselves what they feared what would happen the minorities and them in a United India is surely lost on the demagogues.

Now I know why many here hate you.

 

[I.R.A]

I will again suggest readers to read an article written by Mr. Ghulam Ahmed Perwez on this issue.............

A brief intro for those who don't know who Baba G (G A Perwez)

Before the creation of Pakistan, Iqbal, introduced Parwez to Muhammad Ali Jinnah, who recruited Parwez to help popularize the need for a separate homeland for the Muslims in the South Asia.[9] Jinnah asked Parwez to counter propaganda that was coming from some of the religious corners in support of Congress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghulam_Ahmed_Perwez

And what he said about secular vs theocratic vs Islamic

http://www.parwez.tv/articles/kia Quaid-e-Azam Pakistan ko secular state bnana chahte the by G A Parwez publish by idara tulu-e-islam.pdf

 

[VCheng]

Now I know why many here hate you.

Should I care? After all, speaking the truth is never popular, but as a moral obligation it must be done.

Pakistan's day of reckoning cometh. Denial will not make the evidence go away.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

SAH sb,

You know we have a Minister here a gentleman called Bhai Giriraj Singh here who threatens to send anyone who disagrees with him to Pakistan. I wonder if this PTI gentleman and Bhai Giriraj Singh can agree on an exchange programme.

Regards

 

[VCheng]

SAH sb,

You know we have a Minister here a gentleman called Bhai Giriraj Singh here who threatens to send anyone who disagrees with him to Pakistan. I wonder if this PTI gentleman and Bhai Giriraj Singh can agree on an exchange programme.

Regards

As logical as that idea might appear, people who want to leave either country generally also like to leave South Asia as a whole, too. Having said that, I, for one, would not mind visiting India.

But seriously, the point here is that both societies need to develop, and indeed encourage, a diversity of opinions and tolerate their expression. Asking those that one does not agree with to simply leave is counter-productive in the long run. Nobody wins with such a demand.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

SAH sb,

Possibly the Govt of Pakistan can consider appointing Bhai Giriraj Singh as a brand ambassador for Pakistan Tourism Department.

Regards

 

[VCheng]

SAH sb,

Possibly the Govt of Pakistan can consider appointing Bhai Giriraj Singh as a brand ambassador for Pakistan Tourism Department.

Regards

He might even be an improvement from the presently acting "ambassadors" for promoting tourism in Pakistan. But not likely.

If that is to happen, Pakistan must be able to convince the world that it is a welcoming and tolerant society. Statements such as the topic of this thread do not help, definitely, in this regard.

 

[Verve]

And what he said about secular vs theocratic vs Islamic

http://www.parwez.tv/articles/kia Quaid-e-Azam Pakistan ko secular state bnana chahte the by G A Parwez publish by idara tulu-e-islam.pdf

Translating some bits for those 'lot' you can't read Urdu!

Last para of Page 11 and first para of page 12 sums it all up. Pages 10-13 on the greatness of Quran by Jinnah are a must read for these jahil liberals and seculars.

Qaid-e-Azam called the 'lot' here Jahils who think that Quran doesn't cover every aspect of life (including warfare, trading, etc etc) and laws over each aspect.

Plus the letter to Gandhi (page 9-10) is simply amazing. Gandhi's reply 'If I was a dictator, I would separate religion and governance, I swear I would give my life over it' (well he was killed by his own for it). Gandhi's views were secular, whereas Jinnah's were not - these letters are more than sufficient. And these 'lot' say Jinnah was secular

And what was said at Akhand Bharat conference on 1-11-1941 by Mr Manshi: "Do you know what Pakistan is? ... let me tell you ... where governance is based on Quranic principles ... in short, an area for muslims to form an Islamic Government'.

And these so called liberal secular muslims claim otherwise. Read what the Hindu of those days said!


But in reply these jahils will claim that Islam is actually both secular and liberal

 

[VCheng]

What people claim to want Pakistan to be is something that they cannot agree upon! Islamic? Okay, fine. Let's do it. But what would that look like? There is no agreement upon what that actually means.

 

[Verve]

Agreement will come. Wait for it. Rise of Fascist Hindu next door is shortening the timeframe.

As Jinnah said in Dec 1943: 'One God, One Book, One Rasool (S.A.W), One Nation'

 

[VCheng]

So national consensus on the nature of Pakistan will be determined by Hindu extremists next door? What sort of a reactionary policy is that? Pakistan must be able define itself by itself, not by others.

 

[Verve]

People need to come back to the message Jinnah and Iqbal gave and work on that.

That message is being mutated by people like you who are bringing in liberalism and Secularism. You lot plus the Mullah brigade have been the core hindering factors.

Message is of Quran being the source of all laws and that every aspect of LIFE is covered in there.

Jinnah also said that the protection given to minorities in Quran surpassed any other system. So the fear for minorities being targeted that you keep harping on is just a propaganda.

 

[VCheng]

Fear of targeting minorities is just propaganda? Please tell that to the survivors of Joseph Colony. And many others besides.