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Second Hand F-16's for PAF

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As the military cooperation between India and USA enhanced, F16 will have no secret toward India. At the same time , India has no idea of J10b at all, that's the realistic every one should accept no matter you like or not.

India already knows all it needs to know about the F-16s thanks to Singapore which trains its pilots in base they leased from India.
 
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My brother, money can't buy friendship. I think china should provide PAF weapon at price of actual cost. The payment of Pakistan army to china is very flexible from goods to cash whatever you prefer and afford . Making money is never china's priority toward Pakistan. We are not Russian, we are real ally. The development of sharp weapon in china is tuning into a new threshold of a era, we need to mount these new weapon by our own first to counter the threat by USA and Japan Nazi, then second it comes to Pakistan, our closet ally in the world. As you have china watch your back, nothing could be feared.
As to HQ9A, Pakistan army shall need it for secure your sky, especially for those damn killing drones.

Wow,
What a great reply sir!
You hve made great points ,& great heart for pakistan!
Thanks for the kindness, but can you plz suggest a solution for PAF in case , if PAF trun to china for a real good fighter aircraft which can be replaced by F-16s for now & what is the crunt state of WS10A engines right now & are they in use by your airforce!
I hope for your kind reply thnks.

India already knows all it needs to know about the F-16s thanks to Singapore which trains its pilots in base they leased from India.

Well thanks to china , PAF knows all about ur superduper SU30s sir!
 
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WS 10a sure is used in PLAAF J10b, both J11b and J10b as well as j16 need packWS10a. The production volume is far from satisfying the real need. Both navy and PLAAF is struggle to gain J11b as much as they can,even the defense minister has to coordinate between them to settle it down. I mean we need thousands WS10Aengine, the demand is mammoth.
 
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batmannn

THE F16s and the su30 FLANKERS hold no secrets for any airforce.

both fighters have been in service for over 2 decades in different versions

getting back to TOPIC buying F16 second hand or not leaves two massive problems for PAF.

1. usa will sanction PAF if used in a war and even before war if they wish to ever sqeeze pakistan diplomatically
2. USA is an indian ally NOW and buying USA weapons to fight INDIA is a foolish move . INDIA carries far more clout in the pentagon than GOP in this changing geo strategic world.

WANGLAKON is correct FC20 are a safer bet if you guys have the money OR they give more soft loans
 
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batmannn

THE F16s and the su30 FLANKERS hold no secrets for any airforce.

both fighters have been in service for over 2 decades in different versions

getting back to TOPIC buying F16 second hand or not leaves two massive problems for PAF.

1. usa will sanction PAF if used in a war and even before war if they wish to ever sqeeze pakistan diplomatically
2. USA is an indian ally NOW and buying USA weapons to fight INDIA is a foolish move . INDIA carries far more clout in the pentagon than GOP in this changing geo strategic world.

WANGLAKON is correct FC20 are a safer bet if you guys have the money OR they give more soft loans

Thanks strom force!
For ur kind sugesstion here!
Well I am all wht u had mentioned in ur post, bt may I let u know till 2014 US will never put pakistan in a cold crnner even as india would like to see so, its after tht period of time?
 
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i DISAGREE BATMAN. re USA putting Pakistan into a corner

In some pakistanis eyes they have been pushing Pakistan into a corner or marginalising Pakistan for ten years.

THE USA has

refused diplomatic assistance over Kashmir
They have made India the no1 long term strategic ally in south asia
Pressured Pakistan in WOT even assasinating OBL behind your backs
Threatened sanctions and arms supplies numerous times and to cut aid for economy
Theyv are constantly throwing armms sales to india with C17 apaches engines etc.

IS THIS THE BEHAVIOUR OF A SUPPORTIVE LONG TERM PAKISTANI ALLY who will back you in a war with INDIA. ????

or should you look elsewhere now

HAS THE GEO STRATEGIC MAP ALTERED in south ASIA ????
 
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i DISAGREE BATMAN. re USA putting Pakistan into a corner

In some pakistanis eyes they have been pushing Pakistan into a corner or marginalising Pakistan for ten years.

THE USA has

refused diplomatic assistance over Kashmir
They have made India the no1 long term strategic ally in south asia
Pressured Pakistan in WOT even assasinating OBL behind your backs
Threatened sanctions and arms supplies numerous times and to cut aid for economy
Theyv are constantly throwing armms sales to india with C17 apaches engines etc.

IS THIS THE BEHAVIOUR OF A SUPPORTIVE LONG TERM PAKISTANI ALLY who will back you in a war with INDIA. ????

or should you look elsewhere now

HAS THE GEO STRATEGIC MAP ALTERED in south ASIA ????

here we go friend!
pakistan doesnt need any support from US in case of war with india cause it has enough nucks to counter indian aggresion any time , dam we are not living in 60s 70s 80s & late 90s , put it in your head sir!
now can we come to the topic, i dont wana derail the thread!
 
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JThere is no issue in J-10Bs with regard to having confidence in them as the plane has still upgrade to do and its yet to mature or any loan related stuff as loan negotiations has not yet been discussed or started. Only technical discussions on the plane has so far happened and a desire to procure 2 Sqds shown as of now.



Also, told thousand times, we have been operating F-16s for last many decades, we know this plane inside out, we have trained manpower, pilots, training regime, infrastructure in place, friendly countries use this plane, it has yet many years of service left after the MLU upgrades. For JF-17s & J-10s, lot of time is required to integrate them fully, while F-16s won't be much of a problem for integration.

J-10B has an induction year as of now if all goes well 2014-15/16, and in PAF service they will be at full strength or matured by 2020 or so.

Till then a 90-100 or so fully upgraded and new Blk 52s would be doing their job.

Plus, PAF would always like to have a western jet at hand for some obvious reasons.

Focusing on the highlighted part, are you telling that once the J series of jets mature and start evolving you will eventually replace the F-16s completely with J-10Bs or its advanced versions?

IMPO it is not very rational to upgrade 25 year old jets at your stage because upgrades cost significant money while have a not-so-significant extended lifespan. I say this as recently our government has taken a terrible decision to upgrade Jaguars rather than order more Tejas or Rafales.


Your air force should consider replacing the oldest of your F-16s instead of upgrading them in such a situation. You could probably order more J-10Bs with some sort of a deferred payment scheme which I am sure the Chinese won't refuse.

here we go friend!
pakistan doesnt need any support from US in case of war with india cause it has enough nucks to counter indian aggresion any time , dam we are not living in 60s 70s 80s & late 90s , put it in your head sir!
now can we come to the topic, i dont wana derail the thread!

Why do you bring nukes into every conventional conflict scenario? Even your most radical generals would not consider nuclear unless it is the last resort before total annihilation. Nuclear weapons are not a child's game. It has almost equally severe political consequences for the launching country as much as the receiving country does, in today's politics.

How difficult is that to understand? If nukes could be lobbed everywhere, then earth would have been finished long ago.

I agree that we should stick to the topic though. :tup:
 
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Well , people seem to underestimate Chinese Engineering , and that is in part related to the Propaganda news outlets that have spread lies about Chinese engineering Myths

But the fact lies that China is the Front runner in Engineering marvels , and only sector that its behind is perhaps in Space exploration or underwater expeditions to deepest areas of world


The 3 Gorges Damn projects , Chinese marvel
Fastest Train network , Chinese marvel
Best innovations in Mobile , and other communication devices
Heavy industry setup , oil and gas exploration projects etc
Chinese goal to land a man on Moon and Mars


So back to the topic , why do people undermine Chinese Fighter Jets or Jets

JF17 Thunder or J10B , do western radars and spies have solution to block weapons launch systems in these fighters ? No
because Chinese systems so not recognize any protocals in Western Jets , so while the Fancy F16 or F15 may be suspectible to jamming and blocks , the Chinese weapons systems will function normally and that also include the SAM systems that Pakistan is getting for its classified locations.


Do we feel insecure about our Air defence needs ? No

We have 60-70 F16
200 Mirage + Chiese fighters
And then we have Block 1 and Block 2 JF17 thunder
Not to mention "Ample supply of Missiles"

So we really do not have an urgent need for F16

What we are looking forward to is J10B 36 addition to our airforce and enhanced engines for JF17 thunders which will increase its payload levels

A JF17 thunder carrying 6-8 missiles is more reliable and trust worthy then F16 which uses protocals which can be blocked or interfered with Western counter measures.

Meanwhile Chinese radars , electronics and systems are safe from such problems

2015 250-300 JF17 Thunders is a number that is sufficient for Pakistan's Air defence infact its enough to project whole of middle east from itself


The only thing that is missing in Pakistan's arsenal is

a) SAM (Local manufacturing)
b) AESA radars on fighter jets
c) Sattelite Network (and hidden sattelite network) spy sattelites
 
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Also as far as the Drones(Gliders) are concerned these can be shot down easily with Shoulder heald missiles or even JF17 or F16 with no issue what so ever.

We don't even need SAM for such items , what we do lack is initiative , if we had shot down a drone such weapons would not dare fly in Pakistani Airspace , what we really lack is initiative and lack of desire to protect Pakistan Airspace or Ground realities


If it was for me

a) 10-20 Drones would be shot down for violation of airspace to send a message
b) US embassy would be shut down , untill such violation stop
c) There would be serious reprecussions on any attempt to arm "Local Talibans by
CIA"


The only reason why bombings happen in Pakistan is due to CIA / and US embassy distributing
funds to disruptive elements in Pakistan and when Local Pakistani government or military gets busy dealing with disruptions US goes about doing its drone attacks

That is the big picture

F16 is not the echelon of fighter jets , and its comparable to JF17 thunder , and also the weapons that JF17 thunder carry and the numerica advantage of using it is beneficial to Pakistan
 
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For anyone who may think Pakistan airforce is lacking anything .. very good interview

and qoute

JF17 is backbone for Pakistan Airforce :P notice no one is even talking about F16 lol

unqoute
 
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For anyone who may think Pakistan airforce is lacking anything .. very good interview

and qoute

JF17 is backbone for Pakistan Airforce :P notice no one is even talking about F16 lol

unqoute

Chances of any short scale conflict with india are to dim, frankly speaking & the only thing which is holding down india is our nucks thts the dam reality! Peoples never acknowledge it on the fourms its up to them!
Whatever you hve said about the protocole things & other secret systems in a F-16 given by US are real, & about chinese fighters going to be the backbone of PAF in coming near future , yes I agree with you but closing down a US embsy is not a option , I guss you went away with emotions in your mind .
Well dear if , our peoples doesn't agree to work with black waters thn they couldn't do anything , right so plz don't get carried away with emotions plz!
Hope you don't mind .
Good post any way.
 
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I think we really need to ask the question frankly as `sane`Pakistanis

Lets look at free nations like Iran , do they have a US Embassy .... no they don't do they have bombings in their country ?
they are also bordering Afghanistan do they not? so why is it that only Pakistan has this "so called" internal terrorism elements?

Or lets look at Cuba sure they are weak financially but , do they have terrorism in their country ? No do they have these groups financed by mysterious people ? By Millions and Millions of dollars not even rupees but dollars
I tell you why , because CIA is funding these out thru their US Embassy in order to keep the Pakistani Government and Security services busy locally meanwhile they run their Drone operations safely


Can Pakistan survive with out US embassy ? Yes we can

a) We grow our own crops
b) We grow our own meat products and dairly
c) We have rich natural resources , fruits and water from river

Why do we need US embassy in Pakistan ?

What is the purpose of this US embassy in Pakistan ?

US embassy is the gateway , of illegal weapons , money laundering operations into Pakistan

Some of the Terrorist that attach the Kamra their Bank Accounts had millions stashed in where did they get these money from ?
Who has the technology , and ability to fake out identities and personalities


I think the core of the problem for Pakistan is the US embassy that it has "immunity"

A country that launches air attacks in your territory , why is their Embassy still open in our country ?

What will happen to Pakistan Embassy in USA if lets say Pakistan , launched a drone into US airspace over washington DC ?
even a non armed drone ?

People fear , of saying NO to opening US embassy in Pakistan , and root cause of the problem for Pakistan is the US embassy operating in Pakistan


Now thanks to China anything we need to import we can import from China

a) Electronics
b) Cell phones
c) TV
d) Cars
e) Locomotives

And Even from India we can get MFN status , and they grow enough raw matrial of their own plys they also build locomotives


So why do we need USA ? what is the reason for keeping their embassies opened in Pakistan ?


The moment we will shut down US embassy in Pakistan

a) The funding for these Terror cells in Pakistan will stop from US embassies
b) The drone attacks will be limited as Military / Airforce would be freed up from local problems
c) No bombings equals peaceful tourism to flourish in Pakistan and GDP will rise exponentially



Recent Examples of their Illicit activites:

> Paying Local Doctors in Pakistan to steal DNA and blood samples
> Reintroduction of Polio into Pakistan
(I mean how can a extinct virus reemerge who has copy of polio, bio weapon)
> Where do these so call cells get Millions ?
> Who is able to bring in Containers and containers of money and weapons
into pakistan with no custom's checks US embassy
> Whose agent was caught killing Pakistani citizens he was safely flown away
in mysterious circumstances
> Which embassy has kidnapped citizens from Pakistani Soil and flown them out
using their immunity trucks and planes out of Pakistan ? Is that legal ? no ..

So the root cause of problem is US embassy in my humble opinion sure they give aid money
here and there but its really not worth it to keep this embassy opened in Pakistan

And now we are allowing USA to arm up Afghanistan , god knows what kind of anti aircraft weapons are they providing to Blouch insurgents

king-cobra-india.jpg

Example:

Imagine you lived in a forest and there was this hole in ground , and you discovered that a venoumous Cobra lived inside it , and it came out every night and ate your farm chickens
what will do you do if you do not have the courage to fight the cobra in one on one fight ?

They first thing you will do is

a) Shut down the hole from where the cobra comes out
why because if you close the hole chances are that the cobra will suffucate and die
and with out confronting it you have solved the problems

b) You will actually bring out the cobra and kill it

I think closing down the hole is better safer option

And similarly the , US embassy represents that same .. its a gateway from which only bad things come out

1) Bribe money for local officials
2) Money for terrorism operations that are blamed on who ever is available
3) Secret operations to scout Pakistani nuclear safeguards
4) Protection of US interest , example killing of french Engineers in Pakistan
or flying out people like Ramond Davis

These are all examples of shady business US embassy runs in Pakistan


What is the worse that can USA do ? when Pakistan will shut down its embassy ?
Give India a nuclear reactor ?
Give India Posiden
Give India C130 transport planes
Give India Helicopters
Give India accesss to classified Nuclear technology
Give India space technology


Look the Snake is already spreading poison out .. so why do we keep the hole open in Pakistan
the damage is already being done what is the worse they can do ?

Make india the 53rd state ? of USA lol

@ This point if Pakistan Closes down US embassy the worse that will happen is
that no US delegate will come to Islamabad and that is fine , we will just
invite Russian counter parts to Pakistan



Every thing Pakistan needs is here with friendly countries like

a) China (Electronics, goods, food, technology, internet , cellphones cars, defence goods)
b) Turkey (Electronics, goods, defence goods, communication radars, technology)
c) Iran (Cars , Industrial know how , engineering , raw matrial , carpets , persian cats)
d) Middle East (Oil , Power, Gas )
e) Russia (Fashion, European vacation spot , toursim , skying , defence items, cars , planes)

USA ... is nothing that Pakistan cannnot live with out !!

Pakistan will do just fine with out no US embassy in Pakistan, and Obama can say Assalamu Alikum to that


This again brings us back to the debate
With JF17 thunder ... F16 Talk is unnecessary the focus should be on JF17 thunder
 
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Here is is what I got from this thread:

Pakistan can add surplus F-16s

Venezuelan has 24 F-16 Block-15s
USA can provide 28 Surplus F-16 block 15
Belgium's has 12 F16 A/B Block 10/15

RNLAF has 45 F-16s in storage, fleet cut down due to budget and 37-40 already sold to Jordanian Air Force.


The only thing that is missing in Pakistan's arsenal is

a) SAM (Local manufacturing)
b) AESA radars on fighter jets
c) Sattelite Network (and hidden sattelite network) spy sattelites
 
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