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SC ponders over whether Pakistan can be declared a secular state

Typical avoding the question about giving the IOKashmiris the right to determine their fate on the ballat box!

We are talking about Kashmir, so stop trying to conflate the issues. Benagalis are my brothers in Islam and I don't need some Indian trying to 'point score' and shows total lack of respect for what may or may not have happened! These matters are between two Muslim countries!

Check you own record as per UN report, HRW of wide-spead rape and muder in IOK!

You are finding it hard to swallow that we Kashmiris FREELY want to be with PAKISTAN! That can't be said about the IOK side! Otherwise you lot would be running to hold elections to make a point! Indians are such insincere people!

Don't waste me time!

I gave you a direct answer and directed you towards proper sources. Go read my post again.
All Bengalis are not your brothers in Islam, there is a very significant non-Muslim population. You need to check the demography.
Learn to talk my means of facts and figures, like I did. Lame jingoism and conjuring numbers without any proof to back them is not going to get you very far. At max, you will be a laughing stock.

Finally, you can put me on ignore list if you think you are time is being wasted.
 
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Other than the original state has there ever been a perfect or very close to perfect Islamic state ? One in which all men were equal, the poor were taken care off, welfare and healthcare, perfect justice, Christians and Jews protected, punishments just and exactly as per sharia, no corruption, no bribery, women and children happy?
 
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Apne khawab karo Recharge:)
Get back secular Pakistan from Mullah Party, My vote for a Secular Pakistan any time for great Pakistan's future.
 
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I can go through each one of those incidences and tell you what it was related to. Our State was NEVER attacked! These outside players used our soil to take revenge for example on the Egyption Embassy. The

There is always an excuse.

Secularism is a selfish way of life. It's very NATURE is to challenge your values, your culture, your way of life! It has caused more Wars by pushing it's ideas and taking resources than religious based societies.
Nature is secular, what do you have to say about it?

As you're an Indian, you talk about stagnant water, etc....you lot have abandoned who you are! I have much respect for Indian women who wear saris than some western imported trash. I don't want our Pakistan to go down that root where we have such an inferiority complex that we abandon our culture. I am always harping on about A.K being a proud Muslim, conservative part of Pakistan. You will rarely find people wearing Western clothes! Does that make us ''backward, uneducated''? Or does it show, we are proud Muslims of A.K, Pakistan!

Evolution is a natures process, if you dont evolve to adapt you perish, its simple.
Time and never stopped for someone, its keeps moving so does societies. The rise and fall are part of nature's life cycle system, nothing can be forever. Evolution can be for rise or for extinction it totally depends upon what choices are made. Our current gen evolution brought in 1000s of technology making our life very comfortable as well as made us very knowledgeable. At the same time we have built nukes which threaten our existence on this plannet. Its about what way we evolve.
For sure if we would have stuck to the era of riding on camels then we would not be able to meet and discuss on PDF.
Except the changes and make right choices to evolve for better tomorrow :)
And Evolution doesnt mean throwing all your past into dustbin. Its upon building upon good points.

I suggest you read Ends of the Earth, Robert D.Kaplan and speaks of India eventually falling apart. You can continue to deploy large forces to cement over the cracks, but for how long can you 'forcefully' keep independence aspirations at bay?

Britishers said it before giving Independence., its working for now let see if how well it goes.
Unfortunately most of Indians dont see armed forces in normal life unless they are living in border areas or in places near cantonment. Thats one of the reason Armed forces have to advertise in TV so that people can apply and select careers in serving country.
 
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Pakistan is not ordinary piece of ground. It is battle station for Gazwae Hind. Creation of Pakistan on the basis of islamic ideology is miracle. No one can declare it as secular state. Yah declare it home of gazwae hind.
 
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1. Hypothetical question. If Pakistan tomorrow became a secular state like Bangladesh would A.K still 'freely' want to be with Pakistan if a referandum was held next week?

2. What percentage of A.K people have emigrated and are presently resident in the secular West. I don't know the numbers but from the amount I have seen in UK I would say it is significant considering the small size of A.K.

3. Al those who emigrated did so electively. Would you say in principle that they are are wrong in continuing to live in the secular West since they are giving supremacy to their worldy needs as opposed to their religious security and welfare?

4. If you think secularism is inimical to Islamic way of life do you feel it is wrong for Muslim's living in A.K who plan to migrate to the secular west? If so would you support a ban on such migration?


1. It will get less popularity all our the country. Public of Pakistan and kashmir don't want secular Pakistan. Majority demands islamic Pakistan instead. If Pakistan declares secular state what is the point for kashmir to join Pakistan? Muslim majority country?. Well there are many countries in the world with muslim majority.


2. Lot of people migrated to the western secular countries. Does this really mean people migrated to westren countries prefer secularism over islam?. No not at all. People migrated to secular westren countries because of economic reason and better life style. There is economic downturn in kashmir and no job opportunities. They have two option either die with hunger or migrate to other countries.


3. Who said they prefer worldly needs over Islam only because they migrated to secular countries? Does migration of people to secular countries justifies secularism for Pakistan?. People are migrating to saudia arabia. Does this means kingship is good for Pakistan?


4. No I will not support ban on any migration. Islam don't ban migration to any country for that matter.
 
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Since when is PAK islamic? :woot: Its a test book definition of a secular state with secular liberals formulating its policies since 47. PAK is a typical 21st century secular muslim country and as such in shambles. :lol:

Secularism in BD & turkey have been forced by imperial powers. In BD's case its India who forced secularism down our throat with a low life secular dictator to run its chores.

Both BD & PAK are 3rd rate secular shitholes with westernized foreign backed secular liberal bigots exercising overwhelming influence over the state.
 
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1. Hypothetical question. If Pakistan tomorrow became a secular state like Bangladesh would A.K still 'freely' want to be with Pakistan if a referandum was held next week?

2. What percentage of A.K people have emigrated and are presently resident in the secular West. I don't know the numbers but from the amount I have seen in UK I would say it is significant considering the small size of A.K.

3. Al those who emigrated did so electively. Would you say in principle that they are are wrong in continuing to live in the secular West since they are giving supremacy to their worldy needs as opposed to their religious security and welfare?

4. If you think secularism is inimical to Islamic way of life do you feel it is wrong for Muslim's living in A.K who plan to migrate to the secular west? If so would you support a ban on such migration?

1. It will NEVER happen. A.K province is not an ISLAMIC STATE and Old English Laws are implemented.

2. A very large % of Kashmiris live abroad.

3. The grand parents went to UK for a better life. Now the grand children are better off, they want Islam. Not all, but likes of Zyan Malik, have no interest. Have you ever been to A.K? Why do you think there is a construction boom in Mansions? The grandchildren are setting roots in their forefathers land. I have spoken to many and they are saying life is getting harder for Muslims in UK. They are being demonised. One example I hear alot is, when a Christian, Jew, Hindu, Sikh, etc commits a crime they NEVER mention their religion. When a Muslim commits a crime, ''A Muslim man....'' I have heard from different people they ''believe'' they have 10 years in the West. There is a large A.K community in Birmingham and those friends who came to A.K have said even YEMENIS (they are the oldest Muslim community in UK) are selling their businesses and relocating to Oman!

4. If you had known anything about Islam, you would not have asked this question
 
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I gave you a direct answer and directed you towards proper sources. Go read my post again.
All Bengalis are not your brothers in Islam, there is a very significant non-Muslim population. You need to check the demography.
Learn to talk my means of facts and figures, like I did. Lame jingoism and conjuring numbers without any proof to back them is not going to get you very far. At max, you will be a laughing stock.

Finally, you can put me on ignore list if you think you are time is being wasted.

Read my post as I asked you, Indians claim to be the largest democracy in World, why don't you allow IOK to determine their fate through the ballot box? Simple and direct question, asked upteen times!

Bengalis are my Muslim brothers. 94% are Muslims. A time will come when a real Muslims leader from Pakistan will go to our Brothers and reslove whatever differences or injustices and deal with them according to what Allah and his Messenger (as'salaathu was'salaam). They are MY brothers. Iqwana filla :)

Obvisiouly, the Mushrikoon and Hypocrites detest Muslims being one! My friend from Kotli is married to a Muslim sister from Bangladesh :) My sisters fila :)

Now to expose Hindu Rapiests in IOK. I have already put up links in other threads but will do it again. The information is readily available on the net and from your media.

http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/INDIA935.PDF

Rape in Kashmir - The Forgotten War Crime | Rita Pal


“More than 7,000 Kashmiri women have been gang raped in homes, streets and army camps by Indian army men since 1989 in Kashmir valley,” Dr Angana P Chatterji, human rights activists and anthropologists, alleged during a one day seminar held here on Sunday, April 5, on ‘Experience of Detainees.’

Quoting the ‘Human Rights Watch’ report, Chatterji said as many as 63 interrogation centers are located in Kashmir valley, 26 of which are in Srinagar district with 19 in Srinagar city alone.

“There have been more than 75,000 deaths in Kashmir and over 8,000 cases of disappearances which shows that there is a continuous genocide of Kashmiris,” she said, adding, she would raise the issue at international forums and demand commissioning of an international committee to look into the levels and number of tortures committed by Indian troops in Jammu and Kashmir.

Speaking on the occasion, Gautam Naulakha, noted Indian civil society activist, said he is ashamed of being an Indian and feels disgraced to belong to a nation, which is “committing war crimes on Kashmiris for their demand to right to self-determination.”

He said, “It is believed that more than 60,000 Kashmiris have been tortured in prisons and interrogation centres by Indian Army and the levels of torture committed on Kashmiris have no match in the entire world.”

Naulakha said that there is a need to document these tortures and file them in the court on test basis to see the outcome of the judiciary. The documentation will internationalize the issue of tortures, which have not been reported over the last 18 years, he added.

Zahir-ud- din, Kashmiri journalist and human rights activist, blamed International Crescent Red Cross Society and Amnesty International for their failure to highlight the issue of human Rights violation in Jammu and Kashmir.

Pervez Imroz, another rights activist, said: “There is a need to expose Indian military might at the international level for their war crimes in Kashmir and the only way to do that is to document these tortures and extra judicial killings.”

List goes on...!
 
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Declaring Pakistan secular leads to a change in mind set
I doubt it will ease any pain in any form....Europe declares itself secular while the majority of the people declare themselves Christians and wonder why foreigners are allowed....Mind doesnt automatically change for good based on a title
 
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You mean just Republic of Pakistan? How does that matter , if it is Islamic Republic or just Republic , it will be like pigeon closing his eyes seeing a cat and feeling like he hid himself and danger is over.

It is the mentality which needs to be changed.
 
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4. If you had known anything about Islam, you would not have asked this question

I happen to know more about Islam then you do. The empty vessel makes the loudest sound. Since your doing some good by countering the Indian hordes here I will disengage from this thread.

I will say though that I did not expect you to reply to the questions fully simply because your argument is hinged on hypocracy.

Peace.
 
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Very important issue. Those regarding basic human rights, terrorism and common sou motos of poor governance and corruption need to wait.
 
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@Azad-Kashmiri After reading your resume I must take take a step back and accept that your knowledge on Islam exceeds mine. I think it is fair to assume we have differant perspective but I am think we both have Pakistan's progress in our minds. So on that score I don't want to wear out our energy on each other. I noticed you were doing a sterling job on countering the Indian's. This includes the hidous crimes being commited by the despicable Indian Army of occupation. We have a greater enemy to worry about then our petty differances. So I leave the field to you .....
 
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