Saudi Prince Khaled makes progress with F-35 deal

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

If Saudis want to kill, they should make their own equipment.

Pakistan makes its own JF17, Iran makes it missiles, Turkey makes its drones. US military industrial complex supplying unlimited weapons to the region is a menace and has no positive effects.

The only weapons that belong in this region are the ones made in it. I have no problems with the Saudis having military equipment but they should make their own like Pakistan, Turkey, and Iran. Saudis should spend their money building their own equipment instead of buying it from the US. It will benefit the Saudis.

Have you been sleeping under a rock?

KSA makes a wide range of sophisticated and battle-proven drones (Yemen) as well as having our own indigenous ballistic missile force that even senators in the country that you supposedly live in (USA) are talking about in public.

Here are two videos from a Iranian regime follower on Youtube. Maybe you know Farsi, lol?

Jointly made satellites with the likes of the US and China and others which are currently in orbit.

KSA's indigenous military sector has been revolutionized in recent years and KSA now makes a wide range of domestic military products, obviously with outside help and joint exchange of knowledge like all those nations in the region that you mention.

There is an entire "made in KSA" thread with 100's of updates and that too only shows a tiny glimpse of what is going on as there are barely any active Arab users left on PDF for us to update it on a weekly basis. There are plenty of Arab defense forums as well las social media (Twitter in particular) where one can educate yourself.

Right

So out of 100's upon 100's of failed attempts in the a past 5 years, they finally managed to make some material damage at last. What is sad about all this is that the damage was fixed almost right away and that it was not the work of your beloved Iranian Mullah regime (they would not dare to attack KSA directly) but the work of likely some of their terrorist militias in Southern Iraq or the Houthis.

As if such an attack could not have been repeated by KSA at oil installations in Iran just across the pond using terrorist proxies in Al-Ahwaz or Southern Iraq. What a huge "victory", really changed anything on the ground in Yemen or KSA.

That really changed the power equation in the region.

In fact it was a blessing as all it did was to accelerate work on projects such as this one below;

 

[The SC]

It only seems obvious and non surprising if RSAF as well as UAEAF go for Fifth Gen now. It has been quite some time since UAEAF go on a buying spree post B60.

Whereas, RSAF requires F-35 for strategic requirements more than any other in the region.

I wonder what is Qatar planning on for the Fifth gen jump.

Qatar did not ask for the F-35..yet.. but if it does why not..it will be a plus for the GCC..since it is still part of the GCC military defence forces..

 

[Aspen]

Have you been sleeping under a rock?

KSA makes a wide range of sophisticated and battle-proven drones (Yemen) as well as having our own indigenous ballistic missile force that even senators in the country that you supposedly live in (USA) are talking about in public.

Here are two videos from a Iranian regime follower on Youtube. Maybe you know Farsi, lol?

Jointly made satellites with the likes of the US and China and others.

KSA's indigenous military sector has been revolutionized in recent years and KSA now makes a wide range of domestic military products, obviously with outside help and joint exchange of knowledge like all those nations in the region that you mention.

There is an entire "made in KSA" thread with 100's of updates and that too only shows a tiny glimpse of what is going on as there are barely any active Arab users left on PDF for us to update it on a weekly basis. There are plenty of Arab defense forums as well las social media (Twitter in particular) where one can educate yourself.

Drones and missiles are more effective and cheaper than F35. Saudis should save their money and not waste it on F35 if they want to improve their domestic military products. I have confidence that Saudi can make good equipment but spending money elsewhere will not help that. US will gladly sell weapons to Saudis even if the Pentagon knows they are useless. Saudi patriot defenses were useless against Aramco strike and US even had to move their own CENTCOM from Qatar to South Carolina after they realized how vulnerable they were to Iranian missiles. If there is any lesson Muslim countries should have learned over the past few decades, it is to not rely on US for anything. US will not hesitate to backstab their allies if if it suits them. Saudis should do what is in their own best interest.

Look at Turkey. They got kicked out of the F35 program but they are wiping the floor with everyone with their Turkish made drones. US thought it had taught Turkey a big lesson, but Turkey got the last laugh, they are using Turkish made laser equipped drones in Libya to wipe out Haftar who is now fleeing for his life, ironically backed by the Saudis. If Turkey was using F35 in Libya, US could have disabled it, but Turks made their drones themselves so they don't give a shit what the Pentagon thinks because they can't tell Turkey what to do with their own drones.

Don't be a fool like the Israelis and Indians who think F35 and Rafale will save them because it won't. The day will come when both F35 and Rafale are shot down, I'd rather lose a drone or fire some missiles than lose an advanced plane to the enemy and a captured pilot. With drones you don't have to worry if a couple get shot down, just keep making as many as you need. F35 is not as invincible as people think, this will become obvious when it starts getting deployed widely across the region and you will start to see how easy this thing is to hit. There's a reason US was so desperate to prevent Turkey from pairing it with S400, F35 is a sitting duck and its game over when S400 sees it.

Israel, Saudi, and India have gigantic military budgets but it has not helped them at all. Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan have smaller military budgets than all of them but they are more powerful than their adversaries.

It is not about how big your budget is or how fancy your plane is. What matters is how good your strategy is and how motivated your forces are. This mirage was was shattered when Pakistan shot down an Indian plane and captured their pilot, why Turkey can win in Libya by itself standing alone against Haftar backed by Saudi, UAE, Egypt, Russia and why Iran can hack and land US RQ-170 stealth drone with cyber warfare and then reverse engineer it.

A small military budget with average equipment run by shrewd people is better than a huge military budget with fancy equipment run by incompetent people. Saudi, Israel, and India can learn this lesson from Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan.

 

[TheBlackCoat]

If Saudi Arabia ever gets the F35, we may see the first ever F35 shot down.

So you think General Raheel Sharif is useless?

 

[StormBreaker]

Well KSA is the 3 of them now..
It is making its own weapons..It is buying from time to time any technology and weapon systems it needs and it is also buying high end weapon systems..

But KSA could Be even more, But this is where i will respectfully argue that KSA isn’t utilizing its budget wisely, it has the time and power to revolutionize its military weapons production sector from smallest to biggest material.

 

[The SC]

But KSA could Be even more, But this is where i will respectfully argue that KSA isn’t utilizing its budget wisely, it has the time and power to revolutionize its military weapons production sector from smallest to biggest material.

KSA is doing just that buddy.. no worries..

 

[StormBreaker]

KSA is doing just that buddy.. no worries..

Given the financial might of GCC, They should have already come up with Joint ventures and programs for ships fighters and tanks, I still hope it goes that way, sooner the better

 

[The SC]

who are they going to use it against?

You...HaHaHa!

 

[TheBlackCoat]

You...HaHaHa!

Pakistan is anti-shia country. They will never support Iran. So I think they are safe.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Drones and missiles are more effective and cheaper than F35. Saudis should save their money and not waste it on F35 if they want to improve their domestic military products. I have confidence that Saudi can make good equipment but spending money elsewhere will not help that. US will gladly sell weapons to Saudis even if the Pentagon knows they are useless. Saudis should do what is in their own best interest.

Look at Turkey. They don't have F35 but they are wiping the floor with everyone with their Turkish made drones. US thought it had taught Turkey a lesson, but Turkey got the last laugh, they are using Turkish made laser equipped drones in Libya to wipe out Haftar who is now fleeing for his life, ironically backed by the Saudis.

Don't be a fool like the Israelis and Indians who think F35 and Rafale will save them because it won't. The day will come when both F35 and Rafale are shot down, I'd rather lose a drone or fire some missiles than lose an advanced plane to the enemy and a captured pilot.

You talk about drones, even though I have already replied to this part of your post.

This development (over the years starting in 2012) has now emerged into an entire "saqr" family with many models, each superior/newer to the predecessor (naturally). It started (as of 2014) with Saqr 1, Saqr 2, Saqr 3, Saqr 4, later Saqr 1-A and other models. Trials and failures and all.

The most recent and known version (from what I am aware of at least)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1238973565849960449

https://twitter.com/x/status/1238972160288477184

https://twitter.com/x/status/1238971624310935554

https://twitter.com/x/status/1238973009538551808

Joint project between KAUST and the US (Silicon Valley based) UAVOS. Saqr 1-B, range of 2600 km, operational height of up to 16.500 feet, 500 hours of testing tasks during the day, night and all type of weather conditions conducted, total of 1000 hours of takeoff and landing tasks were successfully performed as well. Saqr 1-B will be equipped with a heavy armament similar to the Predator, including a wireless communication system to control it when it is used during short flying missions.

The drone has successfully conducted tests with maximum take-off weight up to 1100 kg (!) for 19 continuous hours as well, equipped with an automatic drone system making it immune to jamming with military jamming tools and equipped with an automatic takeoff and landing system.

EDIT:

I know that there have been many threads dealing with Saudi Arabian drones (videos included) but I can't find those threads and if I recall there have been quite a few of them. Due to the decrease/lack of Arab users, nobody keeps a track of all the developments nor regularly post those developments in the related threads.

For those more interested in about what is going on in KSA and the Arab world in terms of developments (friends and foes) I can suggest taking a look at Arab military forums (all in Arabic) or social media, in particular Twitter.

I cannot link to any forums here on PDF (against the rules) but I can link to 4 very active Twitter accounts that deal with tech, science and military stuff made in KSA and other related news. They tend to be updated daily as A LOT of new and promising developments are occurring in KSA in recent years. In the current coronavirus times this is likely to change (in terms of new updates) but there is a TON of material available to destroy those ridiculous notions of KSA standing still.

https://twitter.com/First1Saudi?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1215668102974902274&ref_url=https://s9e.github.io/iframe/twitter.min.html#1215668102974902274

https://twitter.com/ksa_number2030?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1217226150721748992&ref_url=https://s9e.github.io/iframe/twitter.min.html#1217226150721748992

https://twitter.com/Made_In_K_S_A?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1215233129755168768&ref_url=https://s9e.github.io/iframe/twitter.min.html#1215233129755168768

https://twitter.com/SaudiProject

etc.

Here is the "made in KSA" thread:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/made-in-ksa.475488/page-35

Look at the rankings of Saudi Arabian universities. They are the best ranked in the Muslim world. Look at the number of scientific papers written by Saudi Arabians compared to our population. Once again ranking in the top. Look at our hospitals, they rank the highest in the region along with Israel. Look at how we have handled the coronavirus compared to Iran or even Turkey. But yeah, you keep living in the delusion of KSA somehow standing still and not doing anything because we (Saudi Arabians and our media) don't engage in pathetic propaganda attempts or shout about our strategic projects from every roof top nor do our people tend to be very bombastic online, preferring to stick around other Arabs, hence most of the information being in Arabic and being missed.

You see you don't understand an important thing here. This (Middle East) is a messed up region of the world. You either join NATO like Turkey or get a pro-Western Ataturk (100 years back) and later military dictators who toy the Western line or you get destroyed like Libya, Iraq and others have been in the past or you end up like a sanctioned pariah state (Iran has faced much weaker sanctions than Iraq did in the 1990's though and until 2003) where your partners are North Korea, USSR/Russia and China and where you are not 100% independent either, unless you belief that all those reverse engineered weapons of Iran fell down from the sky.

KSA's leaders, rightly so, chose not to follow that option (even though many gullible and ignorant Muslim masses would have hailed that) and has instead decided to follow a difficult path of being aligned with the world's superpower (or at least not try to piss if off to much) while at the same time having close and cordial ties to its rivals such as China (strategic partner and largest trade partner, Russia nowadays, Ukraine, Pakistan and others). In fact KSA/Arabs have been the ones, outside of world superpowers such as China and USSR/Russia that defied the West/USA the most directly, during the oil embargo that destroyed/damaged the Western economy greatly until that US Jewish foreign minister was threatening KSA (during King Faisal's rule) with destruction.

So all the cheap propaganda aside, the real world is a bit more complicated and more complex than the picture that you are trying to paint.

Not to mention the obvious faults in the current Arab world setup with numerous states/regions being divided into states that should not exist in the first place, courtesy of global superpowers and their fear of a strong and united Arab world. Take the GCC as an example. Why are we divided into 6 states and why are we at odds (Qatar) when the people have no problem? This is all a part of the proxy wars that have been waged against the Arab world continuously in the modern era with Israel being the US extension in the region (nuclear armed and enjoying 100% unconditional support with the Jewish lobby having a huge say in US foreign policy).

So yes, we could stop trying to buy the best gadget on the market that can be bought (doing what scientifically advanced Western nations are doing in Europe as well) or we can go down an uncertain route that we cannot afford to go towards nor are ready to go towards right now or in the foreseeable future (at least the next 10-15 years).

But yeah, if we were NATO members it would all have been easier. It seems that people on PDF don't have a problem with that in the case of Turkey but why do I think that it would be a huge controversy if KSA had been a member? Not to mention the whole Turkish-Israeli military ties (Israel helped fund many of Turkish current projects) or economic ties.

More double standards. You would also (probably) be cheering if the Shah was still around and still buying every US weapon that he would buy. Double standards rooted in bias/hatred/ignorance.

Do you know that the only reason why Iran, in 2020, has an air force, 41 years after, is due to the very same fighter jets that they bought from the "Evil Satan" when the Shah was around?

 

[The SC]

Given the financial might of GCC, They should have already come up with Joint ventures and programs for ships fighters and tanks, I still hope it goes that way, sooner the better

Ships they did and a lot.. fighters they are working on it.. I mean mainly KSA and the UAE.. Tanks..there are the Korean tanks.. but no more news till now.. but a big possibility since SK has replaced German components with its own.. including the engine and transmission.... so everything is there..only thing left is the nuclear bomb.. lol..but some US intelligence said long time ago that KSA most likely has 7 or 8 of them..

 

[flameboard]

Pakistan is anti-shia country. They will never support Iran. So I think they are safe.

Not really Pakistan is mostly neutral with great example of friendship with Iran in the past

 

[The SC]

Drones and missiles are more effective and cheaper than F35. Saudis should save their money and not waste it on F35 if they want to improve their domestic military products. I have confidence that Saudi can make good equipment but spending money elsewhere will not help that. US will gladly sell weapons to Saudis even if the Pentagon knows they are useless. Saudis should do what is in their own best interest.

Look at Turkey. They don't have F35 but they are wiping the floor with everyone with their Turkish made drones. US thought it had taught Turkey a big lesson, but Turkey got the last laugh, they are using Turkish made laser equipped drones in Libya to wipe out Haftar who is now fleeing for his life, ironically backed by the Saudis. If Turkey was using F35 in Libya, US could have disabled it, but Turks made their drones themselves so they don't give a shit what the Pentagon thinks because they can't tell Turkey what to do with their own drones.

Don't be a fool like the Israelis and Indians who think F35 and Rafale will save them because it won't. The day will come when both F35 and Rafale are shot down, I'd rather lose a drone or fire some missiles than lose an advanced plane to the enemy and a captured pilot. With drones you don't have to worry if a couple get shot down, just keep making as many as you need. F35 is not as invincible as people think, this will become obvious when it starts getting deployed widely across the region and you will start to see how easy this thing is to hit. There's a reason US was so desperate to prevent Turkey from pairing it with S400, F35 is a sitting duck and its game over when S400 sees it.

Have you heard about Grom-2 being made in KSA?

The Grom is equivalent to the Russian Iskander short-range ballistic missile.

Have you been sleeping under a rock?

KSA makes a wide range of sophisticated and battle-proven drones (Yemen) as well as having our own indigenous ballistic missile force that even senators in the country that you supposedly live in (USA) are talking about in public.

Here are two videos from a Iranian regime follower on Youtube. Maybe you know Farsi, lol?

Jointly made satellites with the likes of the US and China and others which are currently in orbit.

KSA's indigenous military sector has been revolutionized in recent years and KSA now makes a wide range of domestic military products, obviously with outside help and joint exchange of knowledge like all those nations in the region that you mention.

There is an entire "made in KSA" thread with 100's of updates and that too only shows a tiny glimpse of what is going on as there are barely any active Arab users left on PDF for us to update it on a weekly basis. There are plenty of Arab defense forums as well las social media (Twitter in particular) where one can educate yourself.



So out of 100's upon 100's of failed attempts in the a past 5 years, they finally managed to make some material damage at last. What is sad about all this is that the damage was fixed almost right away and that it was not the work of your beloved Iranian Mullah regime (they would not dare to attack KSA directly) but the work of likely some of their terrorist militias in Southern Iraq or the Houthis.

As if such an attack could not have been repeated by KSA at oil installations in Iran just across the pond using terrorist proxies in Al-Ahwaz or Southern Iraq. What a huge "victory", really changed anything on the ground in Yemen or KSA.

That really changed the power equation in the region.

In fact it was a blessing as all it did was to accelerate work on projects such as this one below;

The whole Yemeni affair was just an exercise with live ammunition for KSA.. mostly for air defence against ballistic missiles..
KSA didn't put more that 1 % of its might in there inside Yemen..

 

[TheBlackCoat]

Not really Pakistan is mostly neutral with great example of friendship with Iran in the past

Pakistan supports Saudi Arabia. Retired Pakistan COAS General Raheel Sharif is leading IMCTC against Turkey and Iran.

 

[PakFactor]

The guy is an open follower of the Mullah Farsi Wilayat al-Faqih regime (ruled by self-proclaimed descendants of Arabs) so of course such news is traumatizing even though the collective firepower of KSA and the GCC is many times larger not to mention that of the entire Arab world (no comparison to begin with).

Given the many ongoing strategic projects in KSA alone (drones, ballistic missiles, work on indigenous defense systems with partners such as Ukraine and China, purchase of THAAD and S-400 etc., huge investment in space (KSA has already had 16 satellites in space and is working on more launched from within KSA with Saudi Arabian missiles - just the political element is risky, I believe this ability already exists, joint Saudi Arabian-Brazilian turbo jet project completed, uranium extraction, 20 + nuclear reactors being built, huge upcoming naval modernization, further strengthening of the already powerful RSAF, huge and valuable experience in an actual modern war/conflict in Yemen etc.) and there are a lot of reasons to be angry about.

Anyway the sect that he subscribes to, resolves around obsessing about KSA and Arabs, even though that sect of his is "made in Arabia" in every shape and form.

Let him be consumed by his hatred, we move on.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/made-in-ksa.475488/page-35

I do have a question. Does KSA have their own satellite GPS that would allow them to use their own connection to by pass US provided satellite, to prevent the location of fighters and other assets being tracked ? KSA F-35 would give it an edge among other regional air forces for sure.