Saudi Prince Khaled makes progress with F-35 deal

[Baba_Yaga]

Drones will replace fighter jets and they already are starting to. Anyone that believes otherwise will inevitably be smacked into this reality whether they like it or not. Whoever starts first in the drone field will have the edge. F35 or Rafale is a huge liability to maintain compared to a drone not including pilot training and prohibitive operation expenses, God forbid your stealth F35 gets shot down. Even if a dozen drones get shot down, it is still cheaper than a single F35. So you could launch a swarm of dozens of drones or use 1 F35. The drones will win both militarily and economically. How many missiles do you think the enemy will waste trying to hit a dozen drones out of a swarm of dozens? Do the math, it favors the drone every time.

And these are not even advanced drones. Once fighter and hypersonic drones are introduced, conventional fighters will be dinosaurs of the the defense industry. Ballistic missiles are already more effective at hitting targets than most fighter jets.

You are only talking about the attack component. How would you defend your airspace? Drones that can fight against jets are more than 20 years away. For now, all drones are geared towards land attack. So while you may be able to use drones instead of jets to bomb enemy space, you have simply no defense against a fighter jet attacking your territory.

 

[The SC]

Financially GCC is very shaky. As seen recently, during sudden drop in oil price. GCC fall back strategy is their Return on investments in western countries, but 2008 crash and now now corona has also exposed fragility and Vurnability of investments. GCC purchase of military equipment more like a trade deal, West offer them Sanctions free Oil trade, in return for them to deposit money in western banks, (Just like French still extorting it’s old African colonies) via investments and overpriced military equipment. GCC is like a group of cow still able to milk, Isreal is the dog with fangs. US is the CowBoy and Europe is the family.

That’s basically the set up, GCC can pay big money to companies and scientists to come build stuff for them like Indian HAL Dhruv . But the day any of the cow Refuse to give milk, ‘Mercian cow body will slaughter it for meat. Case in point Libya and Iraq.

KSA doesn’t need F-35 for Iran, I think they want F-35 just because Israelis have it and they felt left over and unimportant.

Actually the GCC is one of the less shaky financially in the world along with the US, China and very few others like Germany and Japan.. the fact is the GCC countries have been buying shares lately in most prominent world class companies be it in Europe or the US..The investment in Europe and the US are mainly state bonds.. so their ROI is pretty secure..

 

[Aspen]

You are only talking about the attack component. How would you defend your airspace? Drones that can fight against jets are more than 20 years away. For now, all drones are geared towards land attack. So while you may be able to use drones instead of jets to bomb enemy space, you have simply no defense against a fighter jet attacking your territory.

Drones that can fight jets are not 20 years away. Maybe 5 years away. US and China definitely already have it. As far as defense against a fighter jet, there is no difference between a fighter jet and a drone jet. If you can't defend against a fighter jet, then you can't defend against a drone jet either.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Hi,

What is your issue with the deal---.

He is Iranian tout....always opening thread for Iranian accomplishments and etc...

Obviously Iranians will have loose motions once Saudis get their hands on these beasts

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Hmm So Block 60s may come to Pakistan than

 

[StormBreaker]

Financially GCC is very shaky. As seen recently, during sudden drop in oil price. GCC fall back strategy is their Return on investments in western countries, but 2008 crash and now now corona has also exposed fragility and Vurnability of investments. GCC purchase of military equipment more like a trade deal, West offer them Sanctions free Oil trade, in return for them to deposit money in western banks, (Just like French still extorting it’s old African colonies) via investments and overpriced military equipment. GCC is like a group of cow still able to milk, Isreal is the dog with fangs. US is the CowBoy and Europe is the family.

That’s basically the set up, GCC can pay big money to companies and scientists to come build stuff for them like Indian HAL Dhruv . But the day any of the cow Refuse to give milk, ‘Mercian cow body will slaughter it for meat. Case in point Libya and Iraq.

KSA doesn’t need F-35 for Iran, I think they want F-35 just because Israelis have it and they felt left over and unimportant.

Shaky until only recently in the last 10-12 years, Yet the spending is greater than $20-50Bn

 

[Indos]

Drones that can fight jets are not 20 years away. Maybe 5 years away. US and China definitely already have it. As far as defense against a fighter jet, there is no difference between a fighter jet and a drone jet. If you can't defend against a fighter jet, then you can't defend against a drone jet either.

I am agree on you on the important of drone in future battlefield. I believe 5 generation fighters are the last man piloted fighter plane. 6 generation fighter will consist of fighter drone.

 

[Trailer23]

@Aspen @Indos
Here is where the Drones taking over from Fighter Pilots stands - in the words of an actual Fighter Pilot.

WTF does Elon Musk know 'bout pulling G's & situational awareness, not to mention hacking into your adversary's equipment?

 

[Ghazwa-e-Hind]

F-35 might be the cutting edge jet

Every electronic these days have backdoors and F35 wont be an exception

Would you pay 130million for a jet that can be remotely shutdown or destroyed?

There are unlimited number of modules and billion lines of source code, can you reverse engineer or inspect each n every one of them?

 

[flameboard]

Pakistan supports Saudi Arabia. Retired Pakistan COAS General Raheel Sharif is leading IMCTC against Turkey and Iran.

Does that also mean Pakistan hates people with a Turkish identity?
Individuals can do what they want. But facts are facts you can’t argue with that and yes and I do believe Saudi and Pakistan have strong relations, but that doesn’t negate Iran automatically.

Saudi has become selfish and started catering more to Western interests under MBS and is losing the Muslim leadership role and isn’t providing Pakistan with the support on Kashmir that it should have. So the relations are slightly shaken.

 

[TheBlackCoat]

Does that also mean Pakistan hates people with a Turkish identity?
Individuals can do what they want. But facts are facts you can’t argue with that and yes and I do believe Saudi and Pakistan have strong relations, but that doesn’t negate Iran automatically.

Saudi has become selfish and started catering more to Western interests under MBS and is losing the Muslim leadership role and isn’t providing Pakistan with the support on Kashmir that it should have. So the relations are slightly shaken.

Your leadership thinks otherwise. Your government is receiving money from Saudi Arabia and you military is in Saudi Arabia to help fight Iran and Turkey.

 

[The SC]

Does that also mean Pakistan hates people with a Turkish identity?
Individuals can do what they want. But facts are facts you can’t argue with that and yes and I do believe Saudi and Pakistan have strong relations, but that doesn’t negate Iran automatically.

Saudi has become selfish and started catering more to Western interests under MBS and is losing the Muslim leadership role and isn’t providing Pakistan with the support on Kashmir that it should have. So the relations are slightly shaken.

Didn't know that having a vision for your own country is a selfish attitude..

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Didn't know that having a vision for your own country is a selfish attitude..

KSA just donated 500 million USD to fight the COVID-19 pandemic (including investing in research to find a vaccine) and has been donating COVID-19 related aid to numerous Muslim countries, including Pakistan.

There is no point discussing with such people, they are highly ignorant, obsessed and biased. They are ruled by double standards as already shown in this thread.

Attempting a rational discussion with such people is frankly a waste of time.

Anyway speaking about lobbies, I have only seen Israeli officials within Israel and in the US, speak against other regional states getting the F-35. A retired Israeli pilot wrote a piece about the need for the US not to sell the F-35 to KSA. Luckily there are other options than F-35 and it is either that or KSA looking towards Russia/China/others or fears of joint cooperation on an independent fifth/sixth generation fighter jet down the road.

BTW I think that KSA/many Arab states and Israel will reach an understanding eventually (officially) and become neighboring allies for the benefit of both parties once a lasting solution to the conflict is found. 20% of Israel is Palestinian Arab. 2/3 of all Israeli Jews are Jews from Arab lands (Arab Jews). The sooner this dispute ends, the better for everyone. I have no love lost for Zionists but rational Arabs and Jews can and do work together in all walks of life even within Israel and outside of it. Like was the case for millennia prior to that.

All I know is that Netanyahu and other hardliners are very interested in gaining Arab allies/turning a new page and his many comments showcase this clearly (he has a tendency to make such comments on a monthly basis) as well as his visit to Oman 3 years ago. In any case the geography cannot be altered nor the demographics so you either find a two-state solution and sign peace treaty with all of your Arab neighbors for your own benefit or you annex all of it and become a minority and further heightened unrest/wars.

If you look at the last 70-80 years of conflict, many more Israelis have died than Palestinians/Arabs measured per capita. No winners here.

He is Iranian tout....always opening thread for Iranian accomplishments and etc...

Obviously Iranians will have loose motions once Saudis get their hands on these beasts

Yes, I noticed this cringeworthy behavior hence I called him out. Had I not seen such behavior prior to that, I would have ignored it.

Anyway I have no problem with such people, they can be cheerleaders of Gambia or Mongolia for all I care, they should just not troll threads.

 

[The SC]

KSA just donated 500 million USD to fight the COVID-19 pandemic (including investing in research to find a vaccine) and has been donating COVID-19 related aid to numerous Muslim countries, including Pakistan.

There is no point discussing with such people, they are highly ignorant, obsessed and biased. They are ruled by double standards as already shown in this thread.

Attempting a rational discussion with such people is frankly a waste of time.

Anyway speaking about lobbies, I have only seen Israeli officials within Israel and in the US, speak against other regional states getting the F-35. A retired Israeli pilot wrote a piece about the need for the US not to sell the F-35 to KSA. Luckily there are other options than F-35 and it is either that or KSA looking towards Russia/China/others or fears of joint cooperation on an independent fifth/sixth generation fighter jet down the road.

Just rationalizing those guys a bit..

There were more vehement oppositions from Usrael and the US Congress in the case of the F-15s in the 80s and KSA got it anyway..the same will happen with the F-35..eventhough KSA is now a partner with the UK in the new 5th and even 6th generation fighter planes' projects.. there is the UAE working with Russia on a lightweight 5th Generation fighter .. and there is obviously China that has an advanced 5th Generation fighters program.. so all is good..no worries there..

 

[Philosopher]

Yes, KSA should start shooting down civilian airliners full of our own citizens a few km away from our capital and

Mistakes can happen in fog of a war or a potential war, may I remind you even the Americans have shot down airliners.

parade North Korean and old USSR tech (slightly reversed)

You appear to get your information from the 80's, Show me what North Korean missiles Iran is parading. Be careful when making such bold statements like that because you'll either come across as if you're trolling or misinformed.

I want to remind you of the fact that KSA has much more powerful missiles with a bigger payload and a much longer range (been the case since the 1980's courtesy of China)

The only missiles Saudi Arabia is proven to have are some relatively old and highly inaccurate Chinese missiles. You're far, and I emphasise far behind Iran. Saudi Arabia has not developed a single ballistic missiles till date.

and in the meantime KSA has been working on its own ballistic missile force

But you have not tested a single ballistic missile. This is how missile development works. Testing is an integral part of it. There is zero evidence Saudis have developed any working ballistic missile. You may have been developing on a missile force, but that says nothing regarding your missile capability.

so every sane person can imagine what is in the arsenal as of 2020), than anything Iran has

You're telling me you actually believe Saudi Arabia has a more advanced missile program than Iran? Show me a single expert/official etc person on the world stage that has made anything close to this assertion. No offence, but you're coming across as rather delusional.

Iran has not only developed highly accurate systems, but has tested them in practise multiple times. When was the last time, Saudis even tested a missile, including those old Chinese systems?

and a stronger missile defense system

Your missile defence did not work very well when 50% of your oil capability went offline in Abqaiq not long ago, remember?

and a much larger territory.

Saudi Arabia is barely that much larger than Iran and what does this have to do with anything anyway?

Wars are not won by missiles either.

Depends what your definition of "winning" is. Listen to the Israeli expert Uzi Rubin.

Iranian pin point missiles could literally paralyse nations by targeted strikes on oil facilities (Abqaia once again is an example), electrical grids etc.

Modern ballistic missiles are an extremely potent threat. Listen to the actual officials and experts.