Saudi military spending and strategic capability - is there a disconnect?

[Mosamania]

The Saudi military is playing catch up as of now, since after the first Gulf War "We kind of let ourselves go" sort to speak, like in a big way. So trying to fix 20 years of a Ghost Army is going to be both costly and time consuming.

 

[Falcon29]

Whether the rule then I don't see any state in the ME that will become vastly superior to Israel as this will threaten the interests of Israel and its Western allies. It's not about aspiration as such. The world powers would simply not allow it.

We shouldn't look at it from that perception, we should do what's best for us and excel in every way. Israel isn't as powerful as you say though, we need lobbyist groups. Many Western ex-politicians who have ties to the governments support our Palestinian cause. Khaled Meshaal has been in talks with many of them.

Consistency? Yes but if the achievements are small then there is nothing to write home about.

We need to be consistent in the will to achieve whatever goals we set out. But, nobody is setting out any goals from our leaders.

The Saudi Intelligence Service is one of the very best in the region if not the world. It's just that there can be no big dog in the ME as of now.

In what way? The same way the Jordanian intelligence operates right? Mostly about domestic threats.

Well obviously I was talking about the Islamic part as Pan-Arabism in its modern political form is not that old and KSA played no part in it really.

I know, this to me is because of monarchy rule. Gulf nations look out for influence and not from an alliance perspective. Like Qatar, I appreciate all the help they've lent to Gaza and the Palestinian unity government. They host the the political chief of Hamas.

It's not about the system of governance. It's about how that system allows the population to grow and how that system protects its people.

This is true, you're looking at domestic affairs and economic policies. You're looking at the role of each individual government. I'm looking at this from a overall political view in the region.

The GCC model is the right way for natural rich countries as this gives security. Without security you cannot advance on those mentioned fields for obvious reasons.

Stability/security isn't what we're discussing here.

Anyway you will see the fruits of all those investments, the hundred of thousands of top educated students from top universities across the world that will return etc. in the upcoming years. I will want to wait before I make conclusions until then.

That's good, I know we will prosper in the future. Although political will is something else. We don't have incentives to solve regional issues or have effective policy.

In terms of the Arabian Peninsula then my prediction is that we will become one entity sometime in the foreseeable future.

I want to see ties with you and us in the Levant in the future. Or a pact of some sort. We don't have it due to our differences and to overcome them you need to listen to our concerns. Of course we aren't going to have stability anytime soon, that's part of this struggle.

If you can't handle the struggle then I don't believe the GCC or Saudi Arabia will ever have an impact in the region irregardless of their achievements.

 

[Halimi]

I don't think GCC/Peninsula-Levant relations can thrive until the Iranian-dominated order is overturned.

Three years ago, the Levant was in Iran's grip. Today it's in contest and, despite the hubris, Iran's project is slowly falling apart. When the new order emerges, the Gulf States and Turkey will be the natural beneficiaries. But that might take a long time to eventuate.

Ultimately, the Levant and Arabian Peninsula are extensions of one another. And regardless of where the centre of gravity lies, be it in Damascus or Arabia, this relationship is natural and historically viable.

Jordan will be key.

 

[Sinnerman108]

The Saudi military is playing catch up as of now, since after the first Gulf War "We kind of let ourselves go" sort to speak, like in a big way. So trying to fix 20 years of a Ghost Army is going to be both costly and time consuming.

Welcome back ... where have u been ?

on Topic

One thing I have noticed is that Saudi Arabia needs Saudis !
There are regions, there are tribes in Saudi Arabia but not many Saudis in the 25 + age bracket.

 

[Falcon29]

I don't think GCC/Peninsula-Levant relations can thrive until the Iranian-dominated order is overturned

That's a reality, if you were more prepared strategically Syria wouldn't have taken this long. The thing is can you fill in the gaps?

Three years ago, the Levant was in Iran's grip. Today it's in contest and, despite the hubris, Iran's project is slowly falling apart. When the new order emerges, the Gulf States and Turkey will be the natural beneficiaries. But that might take a long time to eventuate.

I see Iraq and Syria as contested. If those eventually become Sunni-controlled states what is going to happen with them? And who will fill in the gap for Palestine? We aren't going to demilitarize as there's a rapidly increasing militarization of the state of Israel which not only poses a direct threat to us but also affects our daily lives.

Ultimately, the Levant and Arabian Peninsula are extensions of one another. And regardless of where the centre of gravity lies, be it in Damascus or Arabia, this relationship is natural and historically viable.

True.

Jordan will be key.

In what way??

@Halimi

If you can't answer these questions there will always be a divide between the Arabian peninsula and the Levant. The only influence you can secure is in Egypt since the military regime needed immediate support for their actions. In Jordan, if it wasn't for the monarchy you wouldn't secure support there.

Syrians/Palestinians have the same mindset. You need to support our cause before it's too late, the Syrian people are looking up to you to do something. The Palestinian people also wouldn't mind strategic support. Palestine has to be part of the equation, I'm tired of it being singled out.

Such a large budget and pride is meaningless if you're worried about the consequences of supporting the Palestinian people. I can't use any other example since Arab nations are only isolated when they support Palestine. They're allowed to support Arab regimes though. Just look at your own country, you guys used to allow funds to go Palestine. Charity donations, the US president at the time made you end it.

Supporting Palestine is what will put you to the test. If this is a huge obstacle for you then you aren't prepared militarily, strategically, politically or economically. You aren't self sufficient, you have little influence or leverage. You don't know how to manage your money.

Only when we are affected with tribulations do we start participating in the struggle. That's a bad thing and we need to come to that realization.

 

[Kompromat]

KSA needs consctiption for males, boosted training for Army, More purchases for Navy. The RSAF is one of the best in the region and the most combat ready arm of RSDF.

 

[Ceonwulf]

As documented by organisations such as SIPRI and IISS, Saudi Arabia is now the world's fourth largest military spender, behind only the US, China and Russia. $60 billion dwarfs the spends of other regional countries, including Turkey, Iran, Egypt and Israel and exceeds those of traditional, 'old' powers such as France and the UK.

For instance, the Saudi airforce is one of the finest in the world, at least in the top six or seven. According to @500, it comes just after Israel and is the 5th best in the world, ahead of India, Turkey, Egypt or any Western European country.

Despite this, however, it does not seem the financial investment is reflected in Saudi Arabia's strategic weight or how analysts evaluate its regional role. Barring Nawaf Obeid, who is arguing for a comprehensive strategic doctrine in which KSA is the leading regional actor, it seems that most people aren't appreciating or anticipating this role. The popular conception is that KSA still needs security guarantors (eg. US) and is not capable of matching Iran or Israel or Turkey. I see it very often in Arab and Western circles, it's like KSA's punch is not at the level of its purchases.

Why?

Is that spending disproportionately directed towards the air force at the expense of other areas?

Are people generally ignorant of Saudi military capability? Is there a perception problem?

Is Saudi's small (but growing) population still considered a hindrance to its ability to be the major regional military power?

Does it lack the strategic nous that countries such as Iran, Turkey and Israel have?

Would appreciate responses. No trolling please.

The military spending of Saudi Arabia is inflated due to the spending on internal police and security forces also being included. Other factors include the temporary weak dollar exchange rate with the Saudi riyal.

On paper the Saudi armed forces possess significant fire-power, but in practice much of their equipment is unused and mothballed. Therefore, the Saudi military isn't as powerful as it may appear at first.

Also remember that much of the Saudi Arabian defense budget is spent on excess high-end weaponry from the USA, UK and France in return for security guarantors and defence cooperation. But much of this equipment is never even used, instead, it is mothballed and preserved in military facilities located deep within the Arabian Desert. Basically, Saudis are bribing the Western nations for continued security in the Gulf.

The Saudi Air Force is the best funded arm of the Saudi Armed Forces, but they still lack the ability to recruit and train enough qualified pilots for all of their needs. This is why the Saudi Air Force still recruits many ex RAF pilots and pay them excessive amounts of money for their services.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

...

On paper the Saudi armed forces possess significant fire-power, but in practice much of their equipment is unused and mothballed. Therefore, the Saudi military isn't as powerful as it may appear at first.

Also remember that much of the Saudi Arabian defense budget is spent on excess high-end weaponry from the USA, UK and France in return for security guarantors and defence cooperation. But much of this equipment is never even used, instead, it is mothballed and preserved in military facilities located deep within the Arabian Desert. Basically, Saudis are bribing the Western nations for continued security in the Gulf.

The Saudi Air Force is the best funded arm of the Saudi Armed Forces, but they still lack the ability to recruit and train enough qualified pilots for all of their needs. This is why the Saudi Air Force still recruits many ex RAF pilots and pay them excessive amounts of money for their services.

See all old links :

Report: Saudi Arabia Mulls German Tank Deal

Royal Saudi AF's top training leader sees 'inspiration' at Sheppard

Boeing Rolls Out 1st F-15SA for Royal Saudi Air Force

Boeing Rolls Out 1st F-15SA for Royal Saudi Air Force

United Arab Emirates Air Force in Red Flag 13-2 (2013)

...

 

[al-Hasani]

I don't think GCC/Peninsula-Levant relations can thrive until the Iranian-dominated order is overturned.

Three years ago, the Levant was in Iran's grip. Today it's in contest and, despite the hubris, Iran's project is slowly falling apart. When the new order emerges, the Gulf States and Turkey will be the natural beneficiaries. But that might take a long time to eventuate.

Ultimately, the Levant and Arabian Peninsula are extensions of one another. And regardless of where the centre of gravity lies, be it in Damascus or Arabia, this relationship is natural and historically viable.

Jordan will be key.

Indeed. The Arabian Peninsula and especially what is now KSA whose Northern regions were part of the Levant has been very closely tied with the Levant region for millenniums. From our shared ancient Semitic past to the Islamic age. In terms of genetics, geography, culture, religion, language, traditions, cuisine etc.

Add Egypt which lies between both into that equation.

Those are Sunni Arab majority states. It's just a question of time as you say.

See all old links :

Report: Saudi Arabia Mulls German Tank Deal

Royal Saudi AF's top training leader sees 'inspiration' at Sheppard

Boeing Rolls Out 1st F-15SA for Royal Saudi Air Force

Boeing Rolls Out 1st F-15SA for Royal Saudi Air Force

United Arab Emirates Air Force in Red Flag 13-2 (2013)

...

Amazing what kind of verbal diarrhea that you can witness on PDF from time to time. Absolutely amazing.

Welcome back ... where have u been ?

on Topic

One thing I have noticed is that Saudi Arabia needs Saudis !
There are regions, there are tribes in Saudi Arabia but not many Saudis in the 25 + age bracket.

He just became a doctor.

Please elaborate dear.

The last part might have something to do with 55% of the population being under the age of 25 to begin with.

@Hazzy997

We have discussed Syria on numerous occasions. We both know that it's not a strictly ME affair anymore. You have the US and Russia. The two biggest powers of now having their fight in Syria. Turkey have arguably been more involved in Syria than KSA and yet they also struggle with their policies in Syria. Everyone does as Syria is decided now. No party is having any clear lead. What is certain is that Al-Asshead is on loan though. That we all know.

The rest is something that we have discussed as well before on numerous occasions and I will wait with the conclusions when there will be time for that.

 

[Mosamania]

The military spending of Saudi Arabia is inflated due to the spending on internal police and security forces also being included. Other factors include the temporary weak dollar exchange rate with the Saudi riyal.

On paper the Saudi armed forces possess significant fire-power, but in practice much of their equipment is unused and mothballed. Therefore, the Saudi military isn't as powerful as it may appear at first.

Also remember that much of the Saudi Arabian defense budget is spent on excess high-end weaponry from the USA, UK and France in return for security guarantors and defence cooperation. But much of this equipment is never even used, instead, it is mothballed and preserved in military facilities located deep within the Arabian Desert. Basically, Saudis are bribing the Western nations for continued security in the Gulf.

The Saudi Air Force is the best funded arm of the Saudi Armed Forces, but they still lack the ability to recruit and train enough qualified pilots for all of their needs. This is why the Saudi Air Force still recruits many ex RAF pilots and pay them excessive amounts of money for their services.

Maybe if you stopped getting your information from the 70s and 80s I'd agree with you.

 

[Halimi]

It's been two and a half years and Saudi Arabia has now waged a prolonged campaign in Yemen.

Have perceptions of Saudi Arabia's military strengths and weaknesses changed?

 

[The SC]

KSA started more than 10/15 years ago to integrate high tech systems in its armed forces, it was scammed by the US and had to start again after almost 10 years _and at least 10 billion$_ of "integration".. I was talking about the first attempt at a CI3 from the US..Anyone remembers?
Now things are much different.. I just wanted to point out how much time was lost and who was behind it..