Saudi Arabia's Treasure

[Falcon29]

The fate of the Arab world is easily predictable, the current direction will persist, at the consistent pace it is at, with the future implications being ignored. The foresight is there, but the will for change is absent. Probably due to the fact centuries of religious indoctrination has taken a heavy toll on the ability of the Arab world to adapt to changing realities, leaving them far behind, and rushing to set matters straight, like one cramming his studies one night before his exam. Yes, the will to adopt secular lifestyle is there, but the window for development has closed. Policies can only influence so much at this point, and hence Muslims withdrew back to their comfort zone.

Even with certain nations in the Muslim world implementing secular lifestyle and policies, the urge to influence Muslims has more value. As we see by Iran and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia may still be accustomed to cultural traditions, this does not change the fact that the people want to live and embrace the modern world and it's free lifestyle. In Iran, there is strong attachment to national identity, and most people live like their neighbors. Both nations, however, do their utmost best to exert religious authority over Islam's two largest denominations. There is no need to go into detail regarding these efforts and processes.

We do have to address the outcome, to put it shortly, Muslims of different backgrounds have become victims of this power struggle, as they have become enslaved to what they see as a cultural and religious obligations, when in reality, they are no more than slaves and cannon fodder for this ethnic/nationalist tug of war, which is taking form of a religious struggle, when it isn't. But, rather struggle to achieve influence over a large group of people. And the damage done is immense and irreversible.

This is why the decisive hour is approaching. And why the world and it's people want to accelerate the process of Saudi Arabia's collapse. The Arab world will collapse, sadly, and the world wants to get over with it sooner than later. Because of a valuable treasure originating from Saudi Arabia, that treasure being Islam. That treasure that yields enormous influence on the fate of whole communities, especially in comparison to it's sisterly religions. And therefore, Islam is going to be put to the test soon, whether that is a year, few years, or decades away from now, it is something that has to happen for the sake of the world.

Saudi Arabian's will soon become a victim to coincidence, and have no choice but to accept it, like others have in the past. This upcoming reality, will determine the fate of Islam, whether it is indeed a true faith that holds such influence for a real and great reason, or that is is a man-made religion that will fade away quickly, igniting a mass Muslim defection from Islam, and a secular transition across the Muslim world.

And whether you believe in God or not, the saying 'you may hate something that is good for you', needs to be applied here. This 'decisive hour' is very important for the future of the world, and the future of the world relies on it, and hence why I believe decision makers are aware of this, and are preparing for it. And why I also wish to witness this, as my quest for the truth has tired me and I no longer have much in me to keep clinging on to it.

............
............

PS: This is my opinion/perspective, and not meant to criticize Islam or make religious discussion of any sort. I am Muslim, a curious one, that is stuck between reality and faith. And needs to choose one or the other soon, as we are in an age of precision, with two extremes(misguidance and faith) and (guidance ridden of faith).

So I hope mods approve this topic, and members receive it well.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

The fate of the Arab world is easily predictable, the current direction will persist, at the consistent pace it is at, with the future implications being ignored. The foresight is there, but the will for change is absent. Probably due to the fact centuries of religious indoctrination has taken a heavy toll on the ability of the Arab world to adapt to changing realities, leaving them far behind, and rushing to set matters straight, like one cramming his studies one night before his exam. Yes, the will to adopt secular lifestyle is there, but the window for development has closed. Policies can only influence so much at this point, and hence Muslims withdrew back to their comfort zone.

Even with certain nations in the Muslim world implementing secular lifestyle and policies, the urge to influence Muslims has more value. As we see by Iran and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia may still be accustomed to cultural traditions, this does not change the fact that the people want to live and embrace the modern world and it's free lifestyle. In Iran, there is strong attachment to national identity, and most people live like their neighbors. Both nations, however, do their utmost best to exert religious authority over Islam's two largest denominations. There is no need to go into detail regarding these efforts and processes.

We do have to address the outcome, to put it shortly, Muslims of different backgrounds have become victims of this power struggle, as they have become enslaved to what they see as a cultural and religious obligations, when in reality, they are no more than slaves and cannon fodder for this ethnic/nationalist tug of war, which is taking form of a religious struggle, when it isn't. But, rather struggle to achieve influence over a large group of people. And the damage done is immense and irreversible.

This is why the decisive hour is approaching. And why the world and it's people want to accelerate the process of Saudi Arabia's collapse. The Arab world will collapse, sadly, and the world wants to get over with it sooner than later. Because of a valuable treasure originating from Saudi Arabia, that treasure being Islam. That treasure that yields enormous influence on the fate of whole communities, especially in comparison to it's sisterly religions. And therefore, Islam is going to be put to the test soon, whether that is a year, few years, or decades away from now, it is something that has to happen for the sake of the world.

Saudi Arabian's will soon become a victim to coincidence, and have no choice but to accept it, like others have in the past. This upcoming reality, will determine the fate of Islam, whether it is indeed a true faith that holds such influence for a real and great reason, or that is is a man-made religion that will fade away quickly, igniting a mass Muslim defection from Islam, and a secular transition across the Muslim world.

And whether you believe in God or not, the saying 'you may hate something that is good for you', needs to be applied here. This 'decisive hour' is very important for the future of the world, and the future of the world relies on it, and hence why I believe decision makers are aware of this, and are preparing for it. And why I also wish to witness this, as my quest for the truth has tired me and I no longer have much in me to keep clinging on to it.

............
............

PS: This is my opinion/perspective, and not meant to criticize Islam or make religious discussion of any sort. I am Muslim, a curious one, that is stuck between reality and faith. And needs to choose one or the other soon, as we are in an age of precision, with two extremes(misguidance and faith) and (guidance ridden of faith).

So I hope mods approve this topic, and members receive it well.

I disagree, the problem isn't religion. Though that is clearly something you cannot process in your bigoted brain.

It's also part of the poltical stucture, This video shows the clear problems with the Middle east without ever mentioning it.

 

[Falcon29]

I disagree, the problem isn't religion. Though that is clearly something you cannot process in your bigoted brain.

It's also part of the poltical stucture, This video shows the clear problems with the Middle east without ever mentioning it.

Firstly, you don't know me, so do away with the personal attacks. And do away with your narrow minded thinking, curiosity and deep analysis does not make one bigoted. This is yet another time where you've indirectly asserted that I'm not Muslim. You are also reflection of the brainwashing by Muslim scholars, that declare anyone who's concerned about fate of Muslim people, as a non-Muslim, due to fear of change, but also due to urge to assume and maintain influence. Not to mention the easily observable trend in Muslim community, where words and not actions, reflect whether someone is a Muslim or not.

Priding yourself as being a good Muslim, is just false pride. It's not a reality, just because you say so. So if you seek to remain prideful, keep it to yourself, and don't do declare others as apostates. You do not know anything about other people, and whether they are better than in the eyes of God, or not.

Now getting back to topic, those factors are merely catalysts. Religion plays the biggest role, then culture. Most people can see that.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

. You are also reflection of the brainwashing by Muslim scholars, that declare anyone who's concerned about fate of Muslim people, as a non-Muslim, due to fear of change, but also due to urge to assume and maintain influence. Not to mention the easily observable trend in Muslim community, where words and not actions, reflect whether someone is a Muslim or not.

Did I ever call you a Non-Muslim? Did I challenge Your thinking and called it blasmephous? No just stating facts.

Priding yourself as being a good Muslim, is just false pride. It's not a reality, just because you say so. So if you seek to remain prideful, keep it to yourself, and don't do declare others as apostates. You do not know anything about other people, and whether they are better than in the eyes of God, or not.

When did I call you an Apostate?

Now getting back to topic, those factors are merely catalysts. Religion plays the biggest role, then culture. Most people can see that.

Did you even Watch the Video? Culture yes plays a big part, but Religion? Not really.

You don't need a Secular System you just need a Democratic one. When the keys to power are in the hands of the people the more the Ruler is willing to spend on his people to make them happy.

That means building Infrastructure,Hopsitals,Colleges and by making that educated populace you are making a bigger wealth source for the Ruler, and that ruler will spend even more on the people and so on.

This is why Democratic States are lightyears ahead of any non-democratic state. Look at Turkey then Look at Egypt, when you place the power into the peoples hands then you can build a better state no matter how conservative or Religious the population.

Look at Egypt, A Secular Dictatorship and what did that accomplish? Absolutely Nothing but build corruption in the system,increase poverty and steal the wealth of the people vs Islamist Erodagan and Turkey who made major Economic Reforms, Invested Majorly in Infrastructure, and more and more investments in the people.


This is why the Muslim world needs to invest in Democracy, It is the saving grace of any state.

 

[Falcon29]

You don't need a Secular System you just need a Democratic one. When the keys to power are in the hands of the people the more the Ruler is willing to spend on his people to make them happy.

That means building Infrastructure,Hopsitals,Colleges and by making that educated populace you are making a bigger wealth source for the Ruler, and that ruler will spend even more on the people and so on.

This is why Democratic States are lightyears ahead of any non-democratic state. Look at Turkey then Look at Egypt, when you place the power into the peoples hands then you can build a better state no matter how conservative or Religious the population.

Look at Egypt, A Secular Dictatorship and what did that accomplish? Absolutely Nothing but build corruption in the system,increase poverty and steal the wealth of the people vs Islamist Erodagan and Turkey who made major Economic Reforms, Invested Majorly in Infrastructure, and more and more investments in the people.


This is why the Muslim world needs to invest in Democracy, It is the saving grace of any state.

This point is welcome, you could have made this point in your first post. Before I give my opinion, I want to clarify that I believe religion plays a big role in Muslim's mentality, lifestyle, and influences their approaches to worldly matters. And this has been developed over a long period of time. This is what I recognize as something that is powerful, whether one believes it's a good or bad influence, point being it is a massive influencing factor in what shapes the Muslim community all around the world, and also the shaping up of the Arab world.

Now to your point, you are speaking as if you're an atheist. I totally agree, democracy and secularism, can work in Muslim nations, because you eliminate religions influence on your society, or decrease it significantly. And today, that model is obviously better for the society to function and prosper.

But, you are aware, this suggests that Islam is not a true faith, and is a product of culture, just like other religions, to assemble a functioning society(during the relevant time). If you, and many others are suggesting this, so why do we need Islam? If it's not true, why should we let it continue influencing peoples lives, and moreso the fate of nations?

You are aware, that we were told that Islam IS TRUE. That you do have to observe the rules that infringe on your personal rights, to your best ability, such as abstaining from adultery, intoxicants, praying 5 times a day, fasting a whole month once a year, etc.... And you are aware, that many people follow these, because they understood, from what was preached about Islam, that is a true, and there is indeed an literal afterlife, and it indeed does explain purpose of life, and that there is no choice for most Muslims to leave it(apostasy law), and it influences their lifestyle and potential in life, greatly.

So why aren't the scholars telling the truth, what do they really believe? Do they see Islam as just as an cultural attachment, as for example Buddhism is perceived by the Buddhist community, that is just meant to keep control over the society, or keep it from breaking apart? Is this what they believe and are hiding from is? You guys are insinuating that in every way possible.

And from my understanding of Islam, it is not a product of culture, and is a true way of life, and is an literal truth, as Prophet Mohammed preached, that is going to determine your fate in the next life.

There should be no reason that Muslims have to keep following Islam, if it is just a product of culture not to be taken too seriously as the Muslim community's actions reveal(they may believe themselves, doesn't matter, if you look deeply into it, you will come to my conclusion). This is why, I wrote this thread, and believe this decisive hour will greatly change the world.

 

[shhh]

I disagree, the problem isn't religion. Though that is clearly something you cannot process in your bigoted brain.

It's also part of the poltical stucture, This video shows the clear problems with the Middle east without ever mentioning it.

This video blew my mind!

 

[Hassan Guy]

In response to that video,

Why can't Pakistan rulers see as clearly as the average man with common sense

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Now to your point, you are speaking as if you're an atheist. I totally agree, democracy and secularism, can work in Muslim nations, because you eliminate religions influence on your society, or decrease it significantly. And today, that model is obviously better for the society to function and prosper.

What? Where did you get that? I am not talking like an Atheist, how does one even talk like an Atheist?

But, you are aware, this suggests that Islam is not a true faith, and is a product of culture, just like other religions, to assemble a functioning society(during the relevant time). If you, and many others are suggesting this, so why do we need Islam? If it's not true, why should we let it continue influencing peoples lives, and moreso the fate of nations?

No not really, What are you getting at? A democratic Islamic State could do just as well as an Democratic Secular State. Just as long as their is little to no corruption, a set of dedicated people and people who actually care about the Country.

Where are you getting this stuff? When did I suggest any of this?

You are aware, that we were told that Islam IS TRUE. That you do have to observe the rules that infringe on your personal rights, to your best ability, such as abstaining from adultery, intoxicants, praying 5 times a day, fasting a whole month once a year, etc.... And you are aware, that many people follow these, because they understood, from what was preached about Islam, that is a true, and there is indeed an literal afterlife, and it indeed does explain purpose of life, and that there is no choice for most Muslims to leave it(apostasy law), and it influences their lifestyle and potential in life, greatly.

Personal Rights? Yes but do I have to make those Choices? No but I will face the consquences. Islam tells you the Good path and the Wrong path, What you choose determines what happens in the Afterlife.


Muslims can run a democratic state with their Religion. Why are you bringing up all this bull makes little to no sense to me. I suggest you stop putting words in my Mouth Bigot.

So why aren't the scholars telling the truth, what do they really believe? Do they see Islam as just as an cultural attachment, as for example Buddhism is perceived by the Buddhist community, that is just meant to keep control over the society, or keep it from breaking apart? Is this what they believe and are hiding from is? You guys are insinuating that in every way possible.

Dude If you have an Agenda, state it and be done with it. Do not put words in my mouth and jump around with cryptic comments and Weird Riddles. I deal with enough of that in University.

And from my understanding of Islam, it is not a product of culture, and is a true way of life, and is an literal truth, as Prophet Mohammed preached, that is going to determine your fate in the next life.

There should be no reason that Muslims have to keep following Islam, if it is just a product of culture not to be taken too seriously as the Muslim community's actions reveal(they may believe themselves, doesn't matter, if you look deeply into it, you will come to my conclusion). This is why, I wrote this thread, and believe this decisive hour will greatly change the world.

There should be No reason? I'm sorry I just offically lost all respect that I had left for you. That is possibly one of the stupidest statments I have ever Read.

 

[Falcon29]

What? Where did you get that? I am not talking like an Atheist, how does one even talk like an Atheist?

You operate as an realist, whether you realize it or not, Islam is not playing a role in your thought process, hence why do you see yourself as a Muslim? You can't see the connection between Islam and the mentality of Muslims, because it doesn't appear to influence you. But, it has influenced the mentality of the people in the Middle East, and that's the gist of my OP.

No not really, What are you getting at? A democratic Islamic State could do just as well as an Democratic Secular State. Just as long as their is little to no corruption, a set of dedicated people and people who actually care about the Country.

This thread is not about discussing systems of governance, it is discussing the relation correlation between Islam and mentality of individual groups of people, that is more important in understanding how a society will play out, than the form of governance. You need to learn how to read.

And no you can't have an Islamic democratic state, there are rules for an Islamic state, that go against principles of democracy. What you're referring to is a secular democratic state.

Where are you getting this stuff? When did I suggest any of this?

Buddy, you don't need to state something directly in order for it to be observable. The way you think, like many others, is a realist POV. Most of you don't realize it, hence you don't recognize the influence Islam holds. I can decipher from your statements, that Islam is a cultural attachment rather than way of life, for you, again, whether your recognize it or not. You're American, and American educational system shaped your way of thinking.

So stop attributing that to Islam. No wonder you recognize no problem. Islam plays no role in the development of society, yet it plays big role in psychological state of Muslim individuals. Which influences their outlook towards societal matters. That's what's important here.

Personal Rights? Yes but do I have to make those Choices? No but I will face the consquences. Islam tells you the Good path and the Wrong path, What you choose determines what happens in the Afterlife.

No you can't, there is apostate law in Islam. Choosing your own path, can end up with you losing your life at it's worst, and at the least, end up being disowned or broken away from your family/Muslim community. That's clearly not a 'choice'. Being indoctrinated with religion, fear of hell, etc..., growing up, is not a choice for Muslims or Christians or Jews.

Muslims can run a democratic state with their Religion. Why are you bringing up all this bull makes little to no sense to me. I suggest you stop putting words in my Mouth Bigot.

You don't know anything about your religion. What you meant to say is Muslims can have a democratic state with religious freedom and identity simultaneously. This 'Islamic democratic' notion is not possible and is contradictory.

Dude If you have an Agenda, state it and be done with it. Do not put words in my mouth and jump around with cryptic comments and Weird Riddles. I deal with enough of that in University.

Dude, you have poor reading comprehension skills, I'm very clear in what I'm stating, I've understood the world before you have, so don't blame an 'agenda' here.

There should be No reason? I'm sorry I just offically lost all respect that I had left for you. That is possibly one of the stupidest statments I have ever Read.

You're mistaken that I was trying to earn your respect, I wasn't and don't want it. Not being able to understand a statement doesn't make it stupid. You probably do understand, but just afraid of the reality.

 

[alarabi]

Did I ever call you a Non-Muslim? Did I challenge Your thinking and called it blasmephous? No just stating facts.



When did I call you an Apostate?



Did you even Watch the Video? Culture yes plays a big part, but Religion? Not really.

You don't need a Secular System you just need a Democratic one. When the keys to power are in the hands of the people the more the Ruler is willing to spend on his people to make them happy.

That means building Infrastructure,Hopsitals,Colleges and by making that educated populace you are making a bigger wealth source for the Ruler, and that ruler will spend even more on the people and so on.

This is why Democratic States are lightyears ahead of any non-democratic state. Look at Turkey then Look at Egypt, when you place the power into the peoples hands then you can build a better state no matter how conservative or Religious the population.

Look at Egypt, A Secular Dictatorship and what did that accomplish? Absolutely Nothing but build corruption in the system,increase poverty and steal the wealth of the people vs Islamist Erodagan and Turkey who made major Economic Reforms, Invested Majorly in Infrastructure, and more and more investments in the people.


This is why the Muslim world needs to invest in Democracy, It is the saving grace of any state.

Let's not take rush decisions regarding "Democracy", we have China which has one party system and on the hand India which has democracy. Both are giant countries with 1+ billion citizens. Which one of them do you think has more bright future? If you think china, then are we safe to say that democracy causes the failure of India?
In the upcoming years, China will surpass the US and all other democratic countries in many fields, Does that mean we have to invest in one party system too?

I suggest you to watch this short lecture by a Chinese political scientist in which he thinks the western democratic system will be morally challenge by China.

 

[shhh]

Let's not take rush decisions regarding "Democracy", we have China which has one party system and on the hand India which has democracy. Both are giant countries with 1+ billion citizens. Which one of them do you think has more bright future? If you think china, then are we safe to say that democracy causes the failure of India?
In the upcoming years, China will surpass the US and all other democratic countries in many fields, Does that mean we have to invest in one party system too?

I suggest you to watch this short lecture by a Chinese political scientist in which he thinks the western democratic system will be morally challenge by China.

Wow this man nailed it.
Perhaps we (Muslims) should give Khilafa a chance?

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

You operate as an realist, whether you realize it or not, Islam is not playing a role in your thought process, hence why do you see yourself as a Muslim? You can't see the connection between Islam and the mentality of Muslims, because it doesn't appear to influence you. But, it has influenced the mentality of the people in the Middle East, and that's the gist of my OP.

I do think as a Muslim, just not as a Jihadist, There is a difference.

This thread is not about discussing systems of governance, it is discussing the relation correlation between Islam and mentality of individual groups of people, that is more important in understanding how a society will play out, than the form of governance. You need to learn how to read.

This is literally your first Paragraph.

The fate of the Arab world is easily predictable, the current direction will persist, at the consistent pace it is at, with the future implications being ignored. The foresight is there, but the will for change is absent. Probably due to the fact centuries of religious indoctrination has taken a heavy toll on the ability of the Arab world to adapt to changing realities, leaving them far behind, and rushing to set matters straight, like one cramming his studies one night before his exam. Yes, the will to adopt secular lifestyle is there, but the window for development has closed. Policies can only influence so much at this point, and hence Muslims withdrew back to their comfort zone.

I was disagreeing with this and your bigoted and bull point of view.

And no you can't have an Islamic democratic state, there are rules for an Islamic state, that go against principles of democracy. What you're referring to is a secular democratic state.

Yeah you can, Care to list the Rules that contradict democracy that the last prophet uttered?

Buddy, you don't need to state something directly in order for it to be observable. The way you think, like many others, is a realist POV. Most of you don't realize it, hence you don't recognize the influence Islam holds. I can decipher from your statements, that Islam is a cultural attachment rather than way of life, for you, again, whether your recognize it or not. You're American, and America shaped your way of thinking.

Reading my writing has little to nothing to do with telling my POV other then expressing my opinions. Islam to me is a path to life not just cultural baggage or whatever you want to call it. Yes I am American but I grew up and was raised by Parents who were born and Raised in Egypt. Just because I do not live in Egypt does not mean I am disconnected from my Heritage.

So stop attributing that to Islam. No wonder you recognize no problem. Islam plays no role in the development of society, yet it plays big role in psychological state of Muslim individuals. Which influences their outlook towards societal matters. That's what's important here.

Then how can Islam affect the Secular states themselves? Has it ever occurred to you that Islam is neither the problem nor the Solution? Islam is a religion, a Moral Compass for the Religious person. Why the middle east is in such a problem is not because of religion it's identity. The inherent identity of so many ethnic groups is the cancer to the middle east not Islam. We all Squabble like the balkan states begging for the same fate.


You are so obbsesed with Religion you seem to put it in the target sights when you want it to and put it in the spotlight when it contributes to your view. You are literally flip-floping through your paragraphs. All and all this is just dumb what is the point? There will be no mass defection from Islam and Islam can never truly be proven a man-made religion or the one true one.

God is not going to step down from heaven and clear it all up. Islam to you is just a ragdoll to pin the blame on whenever you want. The same exact thinking as most modern Americans and Europeans when it comes to their problems.

Blame one thing, that is what you are doing and that is what the middle east is doing visa versa.

No you can't, there is apostate law in Islam. Choosing your own path, can end up with you losing your life at it's worst, and at the least, end up being disowned or broken away from your family/Muslim community. That's clearly not a 'choice'. Being indoctrinated with religion, fear of hell, etc..., growing up, is not a choice for Muslims or Christians or Jews.

Then become a Reformist Muslim, Whats the problem? Don't like it then Fix the Quran or what you see as wrong and release it and make a brand new Sect of Islam.

if Muslims join you then all power to you, but if all you're going to do is pin the blame then you are just useless.

You don't know anything about your religion. What you meant to say is Muslims can have a democratic state with religious freedom and identity simultaneously. This 'Islamic democratic' notion is not possible and is contradictory.

I'm sorry but it is you who doesn't know anything about this religion.

How is it contradictory?

“There is no compulsion where the religion is concerned.” (Holy Quran: 2/ 256)

“You cannot guide those you would like to but God guides those He wills. He has best knowledge of the guided.” (Holy Quran/28: 56)

How do these verses not support Religious freedom?

“God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just.” (Surat al-Mumtahana, 8)

“We have appointed a law and a practice for every one of you. Had God willed, He would have made you a single community, but He wanted to test you regarding what has come to you. So compete with each other in doing good. Every one of you will return to God and He will inform you regarding the things about which you differed.” (Surat al-Ma’ida, 48)

See Religious Freedom.

“God does not love corruption”. (Surat al-Baqara, 205)

Dude, you have poor reading comprehension skills, I'm very clear in what I'm stating, I've understood the world before you have, so don't blame an 'agenda' here.

Not really, you are just jumping all over the place. Narrow your statment to 2 sentences and you have your agenda. Done

You're mistaken that I was trying to earn your respect, I wasn't and don't want it. Not being able to understand a statement doesn't make it stupid. You probably do understand, but just afraid of the reality.

I did not presume that you were trying to earn my Respect. But what you said is possibly one of the most dumbest things I have ever heard in my Entire life.

There should be no reason that Muslims have to keep following Islam, if it is just a product of culture not to be taken too seriously as the Muslim community's actions

How can anyone respect you after saying these words?

 

[Sargon of Akkad]

The fate of the Arab world is easily predictable, the current direction will persist, at the consistent pace it is at, with the future implications being ignored. The foresight is there, but the will for change is absent. Probably due to the fact centuries of religious indoctrination has taken a heavy toll on the ability of the Arab world to adapt to changing realities, leaving them far behind, and rushing to set matters straight, like one cramming his studies one night before his exam. Yes, the will to adopt secular lifestyle is there, but the window for development has closed. Policies can only influence so much at this point, and hence Muslims withdrew back to their comfort zone.

Even with certain nations in the Muslim world implementing secular lifestyle and policies, the urge to influence Muslims has more value. As we see by Iran and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia may still be accustomed to cultural traditions, this does not change the fact that the people want to live and embrace the modern world and it's free lifestyle. In Iran, there is strong attachment to national identity, and most people live like their neighbors. Both nations, however, do their utmost best to exert religious authority over Islam's two largest denominations. There is no need to go into detail regarding these efforts and processes.

We do have to address the outcome, to put it shortly, Muslims of different backgrounds have become victims of this power struggle, as they have become enslaved to what they see as a cultural and religious obligations, when in reality, they are no more than slaves and cannon fodder for this ethnic/nationalist tug of war, which is taking form of a religious struggle, when it isn't. But, rather struggle to achieve influence over a large group of people. And the damage done is immense and irreversible.

This is why the decisive hour is approaching. And why the world and it's people want to accelerate the process of Saudi Arabia's collapse. The Arab world will collapse, sadly, and the world wants to get over with it sooner than later. Because of a valuable treasure originating from Saudi Arabia, that treasure being Islam. That treasure that yields enormous influence on the fate of whole communities, especially in comparison to it's sisterly religions. And therefore, Islam is going to be put to the test soon, whether that is a year, few years, or decades away from now, it is something that has to happen for the sake of the world.

Saudi Arabian's will soon become a victim to coincidence, and have no choice but to accept it, like others have in the past. This upcoming reality, will determine the fate of Islam, whether it is indeed a true faith that holds such influence for a real and great reason, or that is is a man-made religion that will fade away quickly, igniting a mass Muslim defection from Islam, and a secular transition across the Muslim world.

And whether you believe in God or not, the saying 'you may hate something that is good for you', needs to be applied here. This 'decisive hour' is very important for the future of the world, and the future of the world relies on it, and hence why I believe decision makers are aware of this, and are preparing for it. And why I also wish to witness this, as my quest for the truth has tired me and I no longer have much in me to keep clinging on to it.

............
............

PS: This is my opinion/perspective, and not meant to criticize Islam or make religious discussion of any sort. I am Muslim, a curious one, that is stuck between reality and faith. And needs to choose one or the other soon, as we are in an age of precision, with two extremes(misguidance and faith) and (guidance ridden of faith).

So I hope mods approve this topic, and members receive it well.

So the Arab world, the cradle of civilization, is doomed exactly due to what again?

Economic growth is happening in every single Arab country despite all the challenges at hand, the populations in each of the 22 Arab countries are increasing, the Arab world is one of the most resource-rich places on the planet and one of the most strategically located, the Arab world was a leading (the absolute forerunner for much of the time in fact) economic, cultural, religious, military, scientific etc. region for millennia spanning both pre-Islamic and Islamic times, the current conflicts are nothing compared to past conflicts in the Arab world let alone conflicts seen in neighboring Europe just 2-3 generations ago (WW1 and WW2), yet people survived, the number of educated people have have never been higher (naturally) and the untapped potential in the Arab world can only be rivaled by that in Sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia. Other demographically big regions and developing regions as well.

All what our region is in need of is better governance and the Arab citizenry has an obligation to help achieve that in their respective countries. In the GCC there is overall not much too complain about compared to other developing countries in the world (excluding the political and social aspects) however many problems could be solved by the citizens without any need for government involvement.

As for the discussion about system of rule, Sharia or not etc. this is a relatively pointless discussion as no current system of governance is perfect and the countries that claim to be ruled by Sharia fully or partially, have contradicting laws thus they cannot be used as a benchmark for a flawless Sharia ruled country.

Anyway Sharia is a fairly complicated system and has historically been applied, in many ways, depending on the time period it was used, ground realities, society, sect etc.

All it boils down to basically (IMO) is a just system and rulers and an enlightened citizenry that overall works together for the benefit of themselves and their fellow citizens and country. Common visions and goals. For this to succeed the system of governance and laws has to reflect the society, culture, religion, traditions etc. of that given society in that given time period. Which is something that mostly, if not always (unless we are talking about North Korea), is the case.

@Falcon29

This would interest you. Give it a read.

http://www.iar-gwu.org/node/23

Lastly, if you do not mind, please elaborate on your points that talk about KSA as I do not understand why KSA is any different from say Pakistan, Albania, Tajikistan, Palestine etc. (any Muslim majority country) in this subject as far as I understand your points.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Wow this man nailed it.
Perhaps we (Muslims) should give Khilafa a chance?

Turkey wants no such thing. We are happy as we are.But, good luck to the rest of you guys.

 

[SALMAN F]

Let's not take rush decisions regarding "Democracy", we have China which has one party system and on the hand India which has democracy. Both are giant countries with 1+ billion citizens. Which one of them do you think has more bright future? If you think china, then are we safe to say that democracy causes the failure of India?
In the upcoming years, China will surpass the US and all other democratic countries in many fields, Does that mean we have to invest in one party system too?

I suggest you to watch this short lecture by a Chinese political scientist in which he thinks the western democratic system will be morally challenge by China.

Your society like Afghanistan not even close to the Chinese society