Saudi Arabia planning procurement of JF-17 Thunder, Mashshaks, says Saudi air chief

[The SC]

I doubt that sir.

Why not if they are getting more than a hundred!?

 

[friendly_troll96]

Why is everyone always considering. I heard Nigeria wanted our JF17's... what happened to that? I think its time to market JF17 aggressively and get ourselves some real sales.

 

[Zarvan]

Is that even your call?

No but some things are pretty obvious

 

[Naif al Hilali]

Would it be safe to assume, that the per hour cost, excludes fuel cost?

Bismiilah ir Rahman ar Raheem

Sorry does not say anything in the document. I always assumed that reimbursables only included, pilot, crew, fuel, and direct maintenance costs. Might be mistaken though.

Please Google 2016 fixed wing reimbursables and download the full document from the first link, the Comptroller at the US Department of Defense. Being a professional, you can certainly make better use of it.

Hifz u kum Allah

 

[Dr Shaheryar]

If they can loan us money to bail out in time of need. JF-17 could be intermediary Fighter Aircraft for them to boost their numbers as well as Pakistan- Saudi relationship.

 

[Naif al Hilali]

Would it be safe to assume, that the per hour cost, excludes fuel cost?

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

Not to go off-topic but from a RAND report (RR1178) p34:

"An example is the flurry of requests for information to DoD
after an aircraft used as Air Force One and two F-16 fighters flew by
the Statue of Liberty at low altitude in 2009. The flight was made to
take a publicity photograph to update the file photo of Air Force One.
Cost estimates for the three-hour mission involving three aircraft were
reported as $328,000 (CNN, 2009). The letter from then–Secretary of
Defense Robert Gates to Senator John McCain regarding the incident
and its cost (Gates, 2009, p. 2) explained that the cost included:

primarily fuel, depot level repairables, and consumables for the
F-16 and fuel only for the VC-25 (since it is maintained through
a contractor logistics support contract). The standard methodol
-ogy prescribed in the OSD Financial Management Regulation
includes not only these reimbursables but also annualized aver
-age maintenance costs allocated on a per flying hour basis. This
includes depot level maintenance, engine overhaul, and all con
-tractor logistics support costs characterized as variable."

Allah keep everyone safe.

 

[muhammadali233]

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

Thanks for the figures.

From the FY2016 US Defense Department Re-imbursable Rates Report:

B-1B $41,072 per hour
B-2A $50,985 per hour
F-15C $24,140 per hour
F-22A $34,971 per hour
F-35A $29,685 per hour
F-16C $8,701 per hour

Gripen C has been quoted as $4,700-5,500 per hour (direct operating costs only, sans ammunition).

My feeling is that JF-17 costs in a Middle-Eastern/Western environment should be closer to the Gripen's, maintenance costs being higher and closer to F-16 levels while expendables and ammunition being cheaper than both Gripen and F-16. Further, in Pakistan use, cheaper labor should reduce maintenance costs by a quarter.

Of course, life-cycle costs include research, development, training, upgrades, basing, depreciation. As such, the F-16 amortized costs (not including R&D and procurement, I guess) have been quoted around the $20,000 per hour mark and Gripen about three-quarters of that.

As such, the $13,000 per hour lifetime operating costs quoted above seem realistic (not including depreciated fly-away costs).

Allah keep everyone safe.

exactly

It depends on the method of how you calculate,what is included what is excluded.
Only then a fair idea can be extracted.
In another method where almost is every aspect is kept in calculations,F-16C Cost/hr can touch +26k$.
reimbursable reports an average cost from all users for that year.F-16C can even go below 8K$/Hr and can even go at 26K$.Cost/Hr isn't a set amount it varies according to every aircraft needs.
JFT because of the RD-93 is atm a little expensive to maintain,no at home overhaul facilities for the engine makes it a little expensive to operate it has been tackled by altering RD-93 and lowering the max thrust thus making it less of a guzzler and operating cost also was brought down.

What is the Per hour cost for the F15E ?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Bear in mind that the JF-17 has reportedly been flying with the WS-13 for a couple of years now, it's possible the Saudis could be interested (if they are interested at all) in that configuration.

 

[Zarvan]

Bear in mind that the JF-17 has reportedly been flying with the WS-13 for a couple of years now, it's possible the Saudis could be interested (if they are interested at all) in that configuration.

There Air Force chief has give this statement not some low level worker. Secondly BLOCK III with the massive weapon and radar and other package and if they want TOT it's best thing for them. It would also help them establishing production areas for more fighter jets in near future.

 

[shah1398]

Why is everyone always considering. I heard Nigeria wanted our JF17's... what happened to that? I think its time to market JF17 aggressively and get ourselves some real sales.

Sir kindly refer to history of likes of Rafale as how many dozens of countries showed interest in it till first order got materialized years later. Military acquisitions follow more or like same pattern.

 

[Indo-Pak]

Yes but it can take many meanings too.. let's say you add a squadron of the F-35 to any air force ..that would be a force multiplier.. this we agree upon! and yet adding 100 JF-17 block 3 with AESA, IRST, SEAD capabilities, BVR missiles and much more to any air force is a a vlue plus and indeed is a force multiplier since it boosts the forces.. and as you think, it is not correct in the case of KSA it does not have squadron gaps.. so one might say it is a force multiplier.. and after all they might be dedicated to the national guard and other duties..

@gambit , @500 And other members who know little about Defense , must be laughing at you.. Add 1000 JF17 and it will be force multiplier, what a absurd logic..

This happen when you discuss with closed and myopic view.

You are not arguing to win, not to listen and understand the ideas.. Better live in your wonderland..

Yes I agree with you, add 100+ JF17 and that will be called "FORCE MULTIPLIER" and the weapon you said, are already part of most of 3rd or 4th gen fighter.

KSA can get JF-17 with TOT. It can help them develop fighter jet industry

If KSA want to develop Fighter jet industry , won't they ask tech superiors?? USA and Europe can become partner of KSA.. Why KSA will think of partnering Pakistan???

 

[shjliu]

great news, hope Saudi will get jf17 soon

 

[Dr Shaheryar]

@gambit , @500 And other members who know little about Defense , must be laughing at you.. Add 1000 JF17 and it will be force multiplier, what a absurd logic..

This happen when you discuss with closed and myopic view.

You are not arguing to win, not to listen and understand the ideas.. Better live in your wonderland..

Yes I agree with you, add 100+ JF17 and that will be called "FORCE MULTIPLIER" and the weapon you said, are already part of most of 3rd or 4th gen fighter.




If KSA want to develop Fighter jet industry , won't they ask tech superiors?? USA and Europe can become partner of KSA.. Why KSA will think of partnering Pakistan???

Why you are on fire. It's Saudia's decision. USA and Europe are never reliable partners.

 

[Path-Finder]

@gambit , @500 And other members who know little about Defense , must be laughing at you.. Add 1000 JF17 and it will be force multiplier, what a absurd logic..

This happen when you discuss with closed and myopic view.

You are not arguing to win, not to listen and understand the ideas.. Better live in your wonderland..

Yes I agree with you, add 100+ JF17 and that will be called "FORCE MULTIPLIER" and the weapon you said, are already part of most of 3rd or 4th gen fighter.




If KSA want to develop Fighter jet industry , won't they ask tech superiors?? USA and Europe can become partner of KSA.. Why KSA will think of partnering Pakistan???

you are nothing but a rudimentary indian troll offering no substantial addition in this thread apart from derailing it! you know Saudi defence needs better than Saudi's and can make better decisions on their defence application as well.

 

[graphican]

Saudis are simply looking to diversify. Their dependence on American hardware can be devastating and they need alternate equipment to use at will. With Pakistani aircraft, they can change it the way they like and fit almost every armament china is providing.

That's a good thinking on part of Saudis.