Saudi Arabia now the 18th largest economy in the world and largest in MENA

[The SC]

you did not understand.. I am against the opening of the country to female singers, to filthy music, to mixed shows, or public meetings

I am not against more rights for the females : like driving, or some stupid behavior like denying them medical help if no female doctor is aviable..! they should be doctors, police and so on.. you should give them their rights.. but mbs is pushing to much into western system

lets say it harsh what a bad idea is: opening the country for the naked beaches is bad idea.. but having tourism for the nature or more helal tourism no alcohol no beach parties it would be good.. it would be a waste of beautiness if they would just invite the naked ones..

saudi arabia should not waste its islamic heritage.. it should not open up for western moderates and it should not be the extreem hardliners ..

Saudi Arabia is not opening up for nude beaches..not even alcohol in the the New sites like NEOM and the Red sea islands..that is why there are two parts added to NEOM..one in Egypt and one in Jordan.. just for the people who wants more than pure tourism in KSA.. So no worries there..everything has been thought of proactively..

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Nobody gives a fack if the Arab empires was bigger, the thing is Turks have enslaved you and mixed you with Africans and Europeans. If they check your DNA they would find your blood with Jewish DNA. You can have your bigger empires and live with peace mixed JEW.

Like the Jews made ther religion you made Islaam Arab race, cursed people like your cousine.

More fantasy.

I already told you that Arabs have zero Turkic DNA unlike Anatolians who have plenty of Arab/Semitic ancestry as confirmed by DNA. Unlike Ottomans (most were Arabs, Ottoman culture was 100 times more Arab in nature than Turkic, there were no Arab-Ottoman wars outside the Arab Revolt 100 years ago), we Arabs actually enslaved pagan Turkic people from Central Asia. Well-described in history even Atheist Turkish intellectuals talk about it when speaking badly about Islam.

We also enslaved Europeans (even raided FREAKING ICELAND in the north and Slavic people in Ukraine/Russia) and it is Europeans that have Arab blood (Spain, Portugal, Sicily, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, Malta) and not the other way around. There were European slaves even in Najd not long ago.

Jewish, lol? Last time I checked there are no Jews in KSA unlike in Turkey.

 

[Timur]

but just to show you his mindset and where it comes from

you have no clue where my mindset comes from! nor do you have the will to know it you are just a wicked racist fool with many stupid insults on the level of a street whore..

You are such a dumb Anatolian villager that you do not know the status of Arabs in the Ottoman empire, lol. Go do some research.

man if I would talk like you the saif al shaitan I would do the same and talk about your culture things you can read them in iranian threads if you want to.. but I dont do that my critics are for al saudi arabia the politicians and their blind supporters and a warning to their neighborhood..

but its crystal clear where your hate comes from.. you are the perfect excample of what I am always talking about.. and thanks to you we could silence the fools in our section..

and now you talk about islam.. the well known saif al arab was so busy to show us the moderate and westernised saudi arabia.. now he needs islam as an argument! what happend to you talking about islam ??? ..

 

[Oublious]

Yes, this is the best because that is an accurate map unlike your fantasy map.


The Ottoman Empire at its greatest extent in Europe, under Sultan Mehmed IV in the late 17th century

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

Also we can easily play that game as Arabs created Islamic caliphates and empires 2-3 times bigger than anything you Anatolians created or Turkic people for that matter.

You are still unable to mention a single Arab-Ottoman (most Ottomans were Arab, Ottoman culture was more Arabic than Turkic etc.) war for well-known reasons. Only the Arab Revolt (done by a few tribes) 100 years ago.

Most Moroccans in the Netherlands are Berbers. Gert Wilders shares the exact same opinion about Turks. Who are you trying to fool? Unlike you, I don't claim that Europeans love Arabs. After all we ENSLAVED them and ruled them for 800 years in some parts (Iberia). No non-European people ruled them as long as we did. When most people think Muslims and Islam in Europe they think about Arabs for a reason. It's due to 1400 years of ingrained fear.



Unlike many Turkish women who are sucking certain parts of Western tourists and others who come to their country for cheap holidays and to get pissed (alcohol etc.). Yet he dares to talk about some innocent concerts in KSA. Talk about having no respect for yourself. The day this happens in KSA, I will burn my passport.

Not even talking about what the Turkish women in Europe do (most are not even religious). Dating left and right, including with many Arab men who are as Muslim as Gert Wilders.

@waz


Saifal Arab aka whore of the dna is back, if he can write about Turkish women i can show the forum about Arab kechs from Middle east.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

thats just your filthy fantasies.. you have no insight to my mind or heart..



you are just a filthy person! nothing I wrote is like you do.. and one bad thing does not make it helal for others! there is no contradictional logic in my post.. but you fail to understand it.. I will critisize saudi arabia if I want to and I will continue to do it.. you have no weight in front of my eyes

poo could talk to me and I would answer it nicely and gentle.. but you have played your cards long ago.. dont act as the nice guy you are nothing more than a ultra nationalistic racists.. you think you are superior wich can be read from many posts you are famous for your ignorant tone and your nose high up on the heavens.. dont be pissed off because I said this maybe you can find out that the world does not hate you because you are you but its because how you act!



I dont judge him as kefr.. I dont have the right to.. but you are right best is to avoid him.. also the a positive thing is we see how ppl rated his postings in the past and how they are silent or can argue with us and give us names

What I wrote was based on facts. You cannot deny this. You might be a special case but judging by your Arab-obsession which you showcase in a almost every thread, I highly doubt that you are different.

When you are barking about KSA, I will show you a 1 billion times bigger mirror and make you think twice before you embarrass yourself. Instead of focusing on the small "sins" in KSA go focus on the enormous ones in your country instead.

Racist? Is this some joke? Find me a single post where I attack any non-Arab (that has not attacked Arabs). You cannot. Unlike you.

I am arguing with people that cannot even read the Qur'an and have zero knowledge about Islamic history or their own history (Ottoman period) as they cannot even read Ottoman script (Arabic) or Ottoman language (Arabic).

The biggest joke is this. Most Turks (the Muslim lot, not the Kemalists) in Europe, when dealing with Arabs, try to be more Arab than Arabs themselves. I experienced this first hand. Here online, where it is cool to provoke Arabs among certain trolls on PDF, they try to act completely opposite and likewise deny their many connections. What they are most proud of (Ottomans), as I wrote, would be a footnote in history without Arabs, Arab culture, Arab language etc.

Even your "famous" Turkish coffee is just Arabic coffee branded as "Turkish" coffee. Give me a freaking break.

Man please don't beginning a war in thread by dirty words

People who know me here will know that I have zero problem with ordinary Turks or Turkey. Unlike them (who have never met a single Arab let alone an Arab from KSA), I know how similar many Turks are to Arabs and have many things from Arab culture they have adopted. Or the shared history and DNA (since those guys started talking about it) or the million strong Turkish Arab community. They started the dirty words and name calling. I never attack people unless they attack me. I never show them the mirror or speak about races unless my opponents start doing the same. But the truth must be spoken. There are many nationalistic (deluded) Turkish users here who live in fantasy worlds. Just read their post. Arabs have "Turkic and European DNA" etc. nonsense. They will deny all the historical facts I mentioned as well even if their own mother told them this. As you saw, they had zero arguments. All the good Turkish users left PDF for a reason. Back then we had many constructive discussions. How can you have a constructive discussion with that Timur guy who keeps obsessing about Arabs 24/7 and in this threads starts with an idiotic one-liner (invoking the name of God too) about hoping that we will remain reliant on oil when that is already (today) a much lesser case than just a few years ago. Yet he talks about "constructive" discussions.

 

[waz]

Brothers no more offensive posts or a ban will happen, thank you.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

I just want to state (now that the posts are getting deleted) that we had 2 Turkish users complaining about innocent concerts taking place in KSA (no alcohol, no immoral behavior), after trolling this thread (see who first trolled) while in Turkey prostitution is legal, millions of foreign tourists (Arabs included) travel to Turkey to have fun in not a very Islamic way and Turkish women take part in that. I said that the day I will see such scenes in KSA, I will burn my passport. The truth hurts, I know, but don't point fingers if you don't want a 1 billion bigger mirror pointing at you. Don't troll in informative threads either if you want civil discussions. Since there are no Arab users left on PDF (hardly), insults and trolling aimed at Arabs is a Swedish buffet but not when I am around then those trolls remain silent or start crying to moderators when I deal with them and their nonsense in a language that they can only understand. If that results in a ban, so be it. Those people would be silent in person and not say such nonsense or lies as they would be ridiculing themselves for all to see. Behind a computer it is very easy.

 

[Numerous]

As I said that is your right if you believe that. I am not interested in convincing anyone of the opposite. What I care about is the well-being of KSA.

KSA is a richer country than Iran in terms of natural resources and mineral wealth. Unlike Iran we are not ruled by retards either. The Mullah lot nor the previous lot (Shah).

WWE is mostly wrestling. A sport that was common at the time of Prophet Muhammad (saws). I see nothing wrong with it.

Concerts neither. Music was played at the time of the Prophet (saws) and in every Islamic era.

What? There are mixed prayer rows in KSA.

So you are against women entering football stadiums if decently dressed and sitting with husbands relatives or in their own section of the stadium?

As for the MB, everywhere where they have ruled in the Arab world, they have been less "strict" in terms of implementation of Islam than what we see with MbS so why are you not calling them tyrants and sinners?

Bro wwe isn't wrestling. Most of those wwe guys wouldn't stand a chance in a wrestling tournament. If you want to do wrestling then by all means start some real wrestling academies, the Prophet (pbuh) was fine with wrestling too so even religious minded people won't have an argument against it. But wwe is definitely not wrestling.

Na you guys are misusing that hadith about the daff. Many things have been present throughout Muslim history but it doesn't mean they are right. Music being haram is a widespread scholarly opinion present in many places.

Mixed as in men and women praying normally together in the same row and being mixed. Like imagine a row of 5 people MFMMF in that order with Ms being male and F being female. Pretty sure that doesn't happen.

Bro if I wouldn't be cool with men watching women's football matches then why would I be happy with women watching the men's match? I'm not going to support open sinning even it seems very little.

They probably have their faults too but this thread is about Saudi specifically rather than about the MB. I'd be happy to point out any ruler's or organisations sins so that they may change their ways. Pakistans worse than Saudi right now but likewise I don't mention it here since we're on about Saudi specifically.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Bro wwe isn't wrestling. Most of those wwe guys wouldn't stand a chance in a wrestling tournament. If you want to do wrestling then by all means start some real wrestling academies, the Prophet (pbuh) was fine with wrestling too so even religious minded people won't have an argument against it. But wwe is definitely not wrestling.

Na you guys are misusing that hadith about the daff. Many things have been present throughout Muslim history but it doesn't mean they are right. Music being haram is a widespread scholarly opinion present in many places.

Mixed as in men and women praying normally together in the same row and being mixed. Like imagine a row of 5 people MFMMF in that order with Ms being male and F being female. Pretty sure that doesn't happen.

Bro if I wouldn't be cool with men watching women's football matches then why would I be happy with women watching the men's match? I'm not going to support open sinning even it seems very little.

They probably have their faults too but this thread is about Saudi specifically rather than about the MB. I'd be happy to point out any ruler's or organisations sins so that they may change their ways. Pakistans worse than Saudi right now but likewise I don't mention it here since we're on about Saudi specifically.

If you want to hear my opinion, I am against that WWE nonsense. I don't see any point of it whatsoever and consider it silly. The reason for WWE's somewhat popularity inside KSA (mostly those above 30 years) is that in the old times WWE (on video tapes and satellite tv) became popular and was one of the few exposure to Western culture directly through the TV (other than football) that people got exposed to. So it somehow has sticked although most of the youth is not really interested as such.

Well, it is wrestling as entertainment in the sense that it is staged. I consider it innocent but am personally not a fan of it.

Yes, but there are different opinions in this regard. In any case is there a single Muslim society on this planet where music/melodies are not played frequently and publicly available? Even ISIS used anasheed with plenty of autotune as well as singing although in eulogy of the Prophet (saws) but it remains singing. So I understand that you are against the complete ban of any kind of musical instruments and music?

That does not happen. What I meant is that women at the time of the Prophet (saws) were in the same location and under the same roof or outside in the same space as the men (both could see each other but they were likely separated by a distance although there are ahadith that claim that they prayed next to each other, of course not directly next to each other) so today there is no need to hide them completely in the opposite end of the mosque. You could easily argue that as a scholar and some scholars have done that already in the Muslim world.

Well, the reality is that there is nothing called a perfect Muslim in our challenging modern society. It is almost impossible to create the perfect Muslim society. In fact I would claim it is impossible.

For instance we are both using the internet. I am sure you are aware that the internet is one of the main "libraries" (digital) for sin? With an easier access to it than never before. Yet all of us are using it. In fact you can hardly survive without it in today's world. That is 1 out of millions of dilemmas. Or what about all the sins that take place within the closed doors of your average Muslim family? The reality is that many if not most scholars have failed to guide the modern generation of Muslims. They have failed to tell them that the world is evolving constantly and that, contrary to belief, Islam is a logical and "versatile" religion in the sense that not everything is set in stone and many if not most positions are up for discussions within reason within the Islamic tradition. For instance the aspect that we discussed that relates to women and men interacting when performing prayer. Or the question of music.

I have to ask, if you don't mind, and don't take offense, are you identifying as a Salafi?

 

[Numerous]

MBS is following Sunna as the way our prophet (SAWS) has showed and followed..which is tolerance or the true middle, far from extrems... Women were liberated..but in the frame of Islam.. So where are these sins you are talking about? can you expend on that?
Then you call reforms "oppression"?
I can detect the main thoughts underneath your posts is your wish for KSA to be punished by Allah for whatever reasons hiding in your conscious or subconscious mind.. if there were no reforms..you'll be thinking and wishing the same.. so just keep a Sunna mind set..in other words the middle.. and you might change your mind while following the progress of KSA.. And also, never try to blame a ruler for a murder, because then every crime in any society might be blamed on its rulers.. that is how the whole Kashoggi issue has backfired on the ones who tried to use it against MBS.. including some rulers themselves..

MBS only follows the sunnah of shaytan. He is far away from the Prophet (pbuh).

Ah yes MBS the great women liberator. Heard he's treating those women's activists pretty brutally in prison. So much liberation being done eh.

Lol. You're going to find that I'm probably one of the most lenient posters on this forum towards Arabs or Saudi. I wish you no ill. Why would I want Allah's punishment to descend upon 20 million fellow sunni Muslims?

As far as I'm aware the kashoggi issue hasn't backfired. Your reputation remains smeared due to it.

 

[The SC]

MBS only follows the sunnah of shaytan. He is far away from the Prophet (pbuh).

Ah yes MBS the great women liberator. Heard he's treating those women's activists pretty brutally in prison. So much liberation being done eh.

Lol. You're going to find that I'm probably one of the most lenient posters on this forum towards Arabs or Saudi. I wish you no ill. Why would I want Allah's punishment to descend upon 20 million fellow sunni Muslims?

As far as I'm aware the kashoggi issue hasn't backfired. Your reputation remains smeared due to it.

Sorry buddy but i can see all this only in your head.. far from realities on the ground..

 

[Indos]

Its just sad the the biggest Muslim economy can just catch up to tiny Netherlands not something we should be proud of

The biggest economy in Muslim world is Indonesia and it has surpasses Netherlands in term of nominal GDP. The second biggest is Turkey and Saudi is the third.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

The biggest economy in Muslim world is Indonesia and it has surpasses Netherlands in term of nominal GDP. The second biggest is Turkey and Saudi is the third.

Yes, that is why I wrote in MENA and not Muslim world. However KSA is second as of 2019 and not third as my link in post 1 shows. Also Indonesia has a population that is 8.5 times larger (270 million) than that of KSA. Fourth largest in the world.

 

[Numerous]

If you want to hear my opinion, I am against that WWE nonsense. I don't see any point of it whatsoever and consider it silly. The reason for WWE's somewhat popularity inside KSA (mostly those above 30 years) is that in the old times WWE (on video tapes and satellite tv) became popular and was one of the few exposure to Western culture directly through the TV (other than football) that people got exposed to. So it somehow has sticked although most of the youth is not really interested as such.

Well, it is wrestling as entertainment in the sense that it is staged. I consider it innocent but am personally not a fan of it.

Yes, but there are different opinions in this regard. In any case is there a single Muslim society on this planet where music/melodies are not played frequently and publicly available? Even ISIS used anasheed with plenty of autotune as well as singing although in eulogy of the Prophet (saws) but it remains singing. So I understand that you are against the complete ban of any kind of musical instruments and music?

That does not happen. What I meant is that women at the time of the Prophet (saws) were in the same location and under the same roof or outside in the same space as the men (both could see each other but they were likely separated by a distance although there are ahadith that claim that they prayed next to each other, of course not directly next to each other) so today there is no need to hide them completely in the opposite end of the mosque. You could easily argue that as a scholar and some scholars have done that already in the Muslim world.

Well, the reality is that there is nothing called a perfect Muslim in our challenging modern society. It is almost impossible to create the perfect Muslim society. In fact I would claim it is impossible.

For instance we are both using the internet. I am sure you are aware that the internet is one of the main "libraries" (digital) for sin? With an easier access to it than never before. Yet all of us are using it. In fact you can hardly survive without it in today's world. That is 1 out of millions of dilemmas. Or what about all the sins that take place within the closed doors of your average Muslim family? The reality is that many if not most scholars have failed to guide the modern generation of Muslims. They have failed to tell them that the world is evolving constantly and that, contrary to belief, Islam is a logical and "versatile" religion in the sense that not everything is set in stone and many if not most positions are up for discussions within reason within the Islamic tradition. For instance the aspect that we discussed that relates to women and men interacting when performing prayer. Or the question of music.

I have to ask, if you don't mind, and don't take offense, are you identifying as a Salafi?

Just because something was prevalent in your youth, it doesn't mean you should further feed the fire because you can relate to it. Now me myself personally, as a kid I've seen a lot of bollywood movies and I remember in pakistan you could see people selling these CD movies everywhere but If I had my way I would straight up ban bollywood. A lot of people being into something doesn't mean that it's good. Obviously I would ban it in a tactical way to limit damage control of people who disagree but still. The same with WWE, I've seen it. Some of it's okay but then there are other parts which are very questionable especially women's matches (which people are pushing for in Saudi too), some storylines they've ran across the years including one's with Muslims implied as terrorists (the Muhammed Hassan character) etc... It's not a very nice industry.

Bro okay take the opinion that music is halal, there is such an opinion, so let's assume it is for the sake of this discussion. It's not the prevalent opinion amongst saudi arabian scholars though as far as I know. So you guys allowed Akon to do a concert. These types of people, these gangster rappers, are some of the worst on earth. I grew up with pretty much all of my friends into this garbage. I have a very hard time believing that even if a scholar holds music as halal that he would say types like Akon are halal too. The music industry is literally one of the most cancerous industries on the planet.

Yeh some people pray like that. If people do it like that then I won't diss them. But even if people use a curtain or another room, I won't diss them either. As long people can justify themselves islamically, I don't make too much of a fuss about it.

I think what you said is untrue about scholars. I've came across many Islamic scholars or speakers who touch on these issues. I think many of the people on this website judge scholars far too harshly or think low of them, sure there are maybe some bad eggs amongst scholars but they're normally not the majority.

No I don't identify as a salafi. I am a hanafi and I am open to listening to advice or knowledge from scholars of many different backgrounds.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Just because something was prevalent in your youth, it doesn't mean you should further feed the fire because you can relate to it. Now me myself personally, as a kid I've seen a lot of bollywood movies and I remember in pakistan you could see people selling these CD movies everywhere but If I had my way I would straight up ban bollywood. A lot of people being into something doesn't mean that it's good. Obviously I would ban it in a tactical way to limit damage control of people who disagree but still. The same with WWE, I've seen it. Some of it's okay but then there are other parts which are very questionable especially women's matches (which people are pushing for in Saudi too), some storylines they've ran across the years including one's with Muslims implied as terrorists (the Muhammed Hassan character) etc... It's not a very nice industry.

Bro okay take the opinion that music is halal, there is such an opinion, so let's assume it is for the sake of this discussion. It's not the prevalent opinion amongst saudi arabian scholars though as far as I know. So you guys allowed Akon to do a concert. These types of people, these gangster rappers, are some of the worst on earth. I grew up with pretty much all of my friends into this garbage. I have a very hard time believing that even if a scholar holds music as halal that he would say types like Akon are halal too. The music industry is literally one of the most cancerous industries on the planet.

Yeh some people pray like that. If people do it like that then I won't diss them. But even if people use a curtain or another room, I won't diss them either. As long people can justify themselves islamically, I don't make too much of a fuss about it.

I think what you said is untrue about scholars. I've came across many Islamic scholars or speakers who touch on these issues. I think many of the people on this website judge scholars far too harshly or think low of them, sure there are maybe some bad eggs amongst scholars but they're normally not the majority.

No I don't identify as a salafi. I am a hanafi and I am open to listening to advice or knowledge from scholars of many different backgrounds.

Wait a second, lol, I am not that old to have watched WWE on videotapes. In my early/mid 20's. I already told you that I do not endorse WWE but at the same time I consider it pretty much harmless. At least the shows in KSA so far. I am quite flexible. There won't be any naked female WWE in KSA (lol) or some plots where Muslims are depicted as terrorists. I am this ignorant about the WWE that I have no clue about what you are even talking about.

As for AKON, there was not any vulgarity in that concert and quiet frankly people are already listening to Western music, including rap. I don't know if most or the opposite of scholars inside KSA are against or in favor of music and frankly it does not interest me much. If every Islamic empire had music and every Muslim country has a music industry (KSA too with traditional songs and a mix of traditional and modern) then it seems to me that most Muslims agree with my viewpoint.

Well, I believe in an inclusive Islam in regards to women and if something could be done 1400 years ago at the time of the Prophet (saws) what is the excuse today?

There are always good and bad apples. I have to say that the scholars of today, by large, do not really measure up with the scholars of the old. Scholars should serve as guidance for Muslims and a state (IMO) should have a state-regulated clergy like in KSA so not every scholar can issue their own fatwas about everything between east and west. They should not be put on a pedestal like it is done in Christianity with Popes, bishops, cardinals and what not.