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Saudi Arabia now the 18th largest economy in the world and largest in MENA

Reports of torture becoming more prevalent in Saudi prisons against people who don't toe the line with what MBS wants. The increase in jailing and torturing of sunni scholars. These are two things.

I have over the years tried to give your leaders the benefit of the doubt, I understood that they weren't good men but I thought well whatever, there could be worse scenarios. But MBS, this guy breaks all the stereotypes. He will lead you to bad places. He may have his small initial victory but no Muslim nation with a ruthless tyrant flourishes in the long term.

According to which "reports" is that occurring? Qatari-owned MiddleEastMonitor or Qatari-owned Al-Jazeera or maybe Iranian Mullah regime state media such as PissTV and others?

As I wrote, the exact opposite has been shown and proven so far. Namely that everything measurable (economic output, growth of the non-oil sector, scientific output, educational level, investments in startups, growth of our sovereign wealth fund, investments home and abroad, evolvement of our indigenous military sector etc.) points to the exact opposite. Not even going to talk about the much needed social reforms and the removal of almost all moronic laws that dated back to the Sahwa movement.

I don't know of your political views or worldview but our foremost clerics have now publicly apologized to the nation for some of the (in my view) retarded 30-year old practices that evolved due to the Sahwa Movement. The populace will no longer accept it and MbS, being young, (2/3 of all Saudi Arabians are under 30) understood which direction the clock was ticking. Not backwards but forward. So he did what was the only rational and right thing to do and reforms/changes that he knew where supported by the majority. If you ask me, a few other changes are necessary (they will definitely occur) but I have little to criticize him for so far. That of course given the context of the region, regional events and the fact that there is no such thing as "democracy" and that I, personally, do not believe that this is the ideal system. I believe in meritocracy myself and certainly don't trust the average Joe to be well-versed and to shape the future of entire countries. Nothing to do with considering my own people uniformed. It is universally the case with the vast majority of people regardless of country and we see it every single day across the entire planet. If China was ruled by the vote of the masses, they would not have accomplished even 10% of what they have accomplished.

As for the sensational media reports about KSA (that always come at a time of success or positive news) I take them with a grain of salt and until I see fundamental problems, he will have my full support based on what I have seen so far.
 
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According to which "reports" is that occurring? Qatari-owned MiddleEastMonitor or Qatari-owned Al-Jazeera or maybe Iranian Mullah regime state media such as PissTV and others?

As I wrote, the exact opposite has been shown and proven so far. Namely that everything measurable (economic output, growth of the non-oil sector, scientific output, educational level, investments in startups, growth of our sovereign wealth fund, investments home and abroad, evolvement of our indigenous military sector etc.) points to the exact opposite. Not even going to talk about the much needed social reforms and the removal of almost all moronic laws that dated back to the Sahwa movement.

I don't know of your political views or worldview but our foremost clerics have now publicly apologized to the nation for some of the (in my view) retarded 30-year old practices that evolved due to the Sahwa Movement. The populace will no longer accept it and MbS, being young, (2/3 of all Saudi Arabians are under 30) understood which direction the clock was ticking. Not backwards but forward. So he did what was the only rational and right thing to do and reforms/changes that he knew where supported by the majority. If you ask me, a few other changes are necessary (they will definitely occur) but I have little to criticize him for so far. That of course given the context of the region, regional events and the fact that there is no such thing as "democracy" and that I, personally, do not believe that this is the ideal system. I believe in meritocracy myself and certainly don't trust the average Joe to be well-versed and to shape the future of entire countries. Nothing to do with considering my own people uniformed. It is universally the case with the vast majority of people regardless of country and we see it every single day across the entire planet. If China was ruled by the vote of the masses, they would not have accomplished even 10% of what they have accomplished.

As for the sensational media reports about KSA (that always come at a time of success or positive news) I take them with a grain of salt and until I see fundamental problems, he will have my full support based on what I have seen so far.

You can google about the torture, it'll probably have been reported by news agencies from many different countries. Not everything is a Qatari or Iranian plot. Was the news about khashoggi a qatari or iranian plot too? You're posting vast amounts of videos and pictures about tourism and all these statistics about minerals and growth and welfare funds but you're seriously telling me that you have not come across reports about the vast torture under MBS?

If you go through my threads, you'll find that I'm one of the last people who'll be taking things from iranian regime funded tv lol.

I don't care about democracy either, never have, never will insha'Allah.Disliking MBS does not mean I support democracy. I don't know if he is supported by the majority but it's unlikely, it's not like people have a free voice to air their true political thoughts in Saudi. There's a reason why regimes don't allow people to have political voice and it's because they know it can lead to them losing power as their people normally have grievances against them.
 
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You can google about the torture, it'll probably have been reported by news agencies from many different countries. Not everything is a Qatari or Iranian plot. Was the news about khashoggi a qatari or iranian plot too? You're posting vast amounts of videos and pictures about tourism and all these statistics about minerals and growth and welfare funds but you're seriously telling me that you have not come across reports about the vast torture under MBS?

If you go through my threads, you'll find that I'm one of the last people who'll be taking things from iranian regime funded tv lol.

I don't care about democracy either, never have, never will insha'Allah.Disliking MBS does not mean I support democracy. I don't know if he is supported by the majority but it's unlikely, it's not like people have a free voice to air their true political thoughts in Saudi. There's a reason why regimes don't allow people to have political voice and it's because they know it can lead to them losing power as their people normally have grievances against them.

It is all unsubstantiated. Zero proof whatsoever.

It is not about any plots. It is common knowledge (at least for Arabs) that Qatari media and Iranian state media (the later for 40 years in a row) has been foremost experts in posting propaganda about KSA and other Arab and non-Arab countries that they happen to disagree with or be in conflict with. To no avail mind you.

I don't care about Khashoggi. He was pro-House of Saud until his last days. I don't have any respect for critics who escape abroad and spend their time criticizing from abroad instead of changing the country from within like 10.000's of people are doing each single day while we speak. I don't have respect for people who are trying to turn KSA into a Syria or whose ideal outcome is an Arab world ruled by a single political party/cult (MB). Or people who have close ties with a hostile foreign government.

What has the beauty of KSA, tourism in KSA, KSA's mineral wealth and its natural resources to do with alleged torture of some clerics? What is the connection again?

Believe me when I tell you that there have been no more popular leader in my lifetime (early 20's) than MbS and that most people (2/3 of the population that is below 30) identify with him and his policies.

KSA is at war in Yemen. Is engaged in a proxy war with the Iranian Mullah regime (so far winning in vast majority of countries involved), the Arab world was hit by revolutions whose outcome was mostly only more misery, while KSA and the GCC has been stable and the leaders have been wise enough to undergo economic, political and social reforms to keep people content and to prevent their countries from turning into Syria.

There is no persecution of Islam, any sects etc. There are 1000's of opponents of the House of Saud abroad (West, Arab world, Muslim world) who are 1000 times more critical than Khashoggi ever was and they have never been touched. So that leads me to believe that 1) Khashoggi did something that warranted his ending (grave treason) or 2) those involved killed him by mistake under a fight or wrong order, 3) this was an inside job by former courtiers (King Abdullah era, his brother was removed from the leadership of SANG so he has great grievances similar with the previous Crown Prince that was denoted in favor of MbS) to remove MbS and put blame on him. It was also quite suspicious to see Erdogan try to milk this case as much as he did even more so considering the fact that the Turkish state has killed many dissidents/traitors of their own. As have all states, including Western ones. Case in point those Westerners (citizens) that joined ISIS and are now getting killed without a trial by the same Western countries.
 
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It is all unsubstantiated. Zero proof whatsoever.

It is not about any plots. It is common knowledge (at least for Arabs) that Qatari media and Iranian state media (the later for 40 years in a row) has been foremost experts in posting propaganda about KSA and other Arab and non-Arab countries that they happen to disagree with or be in conflict with. To no avail mind you.

I don't care about Khashoggi. He was pro-House of Saud until his last days. I don't have any respect for critics who escape abroad and spend their time criticizing from abroad instead of changing the country from within like 10.000's of people are doing each single day while we speak. I don't have respect for people who are trying to turn KSA into a Syria or whose ideal outcome is an Arab world ruled by a single political party/cult (MB). Or people who have close ties with a hostile foreign government.

What has the beauty of KSA, tourism in KSA, KSA's mineral wealth and its natural resources to do with alleged torture of some clerics? What is the connection again?

Believe me when I tell you that there have been no more popular leader in my lifetime (early 20's) than MbS and that most people (2/3 of the population that is below 30) identify with him and his policies.

KSA is at war in Yemen. Is engaged in a proxy war with the Iranian Mullah regime (so far winning in vast majority of countries involved), the Arab world was hit by revolutions whose outcome was mostly only more misery, while KSA and the GCC has been stable and the leaders have been wise enough to undergo economic, political and social reforms to keep people content and to prevent their countries from turning into Syria.

There is no persecution of Islam, any sects etc. There are 1000's of opponents of the House of Saud abroad (West, Arab world, Muslim world) who are 1000 times more critical than Khashoggi ever was and they have never been touched. So that leads me to believe that 1) Khashoggi did something that warranted his ending (grave treason) or 2) those involved killed him by mistake under a fight or wrong order, 3) this was an inside job by former courtiers (King Abdullah era, his brother was removed from the leadership of SANG so he has great grievances similar with the previous Crown Prince that was denoted in favor of MbS) to remove MbS and put blame on him. It was also quite suspicious to see Erdogan try to milk this case as much as he did even more so considering the fact that the Turkish state has killed many dissidents/traitors of their own. As have all states, including Western ones. Case in point those Westerners (citizens) that joined ISIS and are now getting killed without a trial by the same Western countries.

Well you post a lot of things which seem to give a very fantasized or perfect image of your country. You spend a lot of time doing this, it probably took you quite a while to find all this information and pictures and videos and then to talk about them on here in very long paragraphs. You basically spend a lot of time reading about your country. So I'm finding it hard to believe that you don't know about the torture or the sunni scholars being imprisoned?

Look we know torture happens. Acting as if it's some conspiracy theory is not very honest. MBS tried to act like Khashoggi left the consulate too and then eventually after a few days, he caved in and told them truth (although he still tried to shift the blame unto his lackeys). Saudi tortures everyone from shias, to feminists, to normal muslim women who just spoke for some rights, to sunni scholars etc...

Let the people have a free voice and then we can discuss who the majority support and identify with lol. Going to Saudi and asking about MBS is like going to damascus and asking for people's opinions on Assad - noone is really going to say anything against either of them because of the fear.

Na, Saudi has definitely started to persecute sunni scholars who don't back MBS on his ludicrous policies.

Look we're discussing your country. Not Turkey, not the west etc... Other people doing wrong things doesn't mean that you can do wrong too. And there's a world of difference between killing an ISIS member and killing a critical journalist in a foreign embassy and then chopping his body up etc...

Are you saying Saudi is beating Iran or is Iran beat you in vast majority of countries involved?
 
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Well you post a lot of things which seem to give a very fantasized or perfect image of your country. You spend a lot of time doing this, it probably took you quite a while to find all this information and pictures and videos and then to talk about them on here in very long paragraphs. So I'm finding it hard to believe that you don't know about the torture?

Look we know torture happens. Acting as if it's some conspiracy theory is not very honest. MBS tried to act like Khashoggi left the consulate too and then eventually after a few days, he caved in and told them truth (although he still tried to shift the blame unto his lackeys). Saudi tortures everyone from shias, to feminists, to normal muslim women who just spoke for some rights, to sunni scholars etc...

Let the people have a free voice and then we can discuss who the majority support and identify with lol. Going to Saudi and asking about MBS is like going to damascus and asking for people's opinions on Assad - noone is really going to say anything against either of them because of the fear.

Na, Saudi has definitely started to persecute sunni scholars who don't back MBS on his ludicrous policies.

Look we're discussing your country. Not Turkey, not the west etc... Other people doing wrong things doesn't mean that you can do wrong too. And there's a world of difference between killing an ISIS member and killing a critical journalist in a foreign embassy and then chopping his body up etc...

What is hard about posting photos of KSA from Arab and non-Arab forums and posting them on PDF and writing a few comments about the places where those photos and videos have been taken in KSA? I am a very vast typer so I don't spend much time writing posts.

"Perfect image". There is no such thing and that must be your illusion or unfunded impression. Everyone here tries to post mainly positive news of their country irregardless of nationality. This is a normal thing. In particular on this section where there is hardly any constructive debate but mostly trolling.

Torture happens everywhere. What is your point? It happens in the UK as well.

I already answered you about Khashoggi.

That is the reality if you believe Qatari and Iranian regime media and social-liberal UK pamphlets and Amnesty International. Are you even aware of the fact that the same media are writing the same propaganda about Pakistan and every Muslim and non-Western country?

Has millions of Uighurs not been killed and put into "concentration camps" if Western media is to be believed? Do you blindly believe Western media or media in general?

Are you really comparing Al-Assad with MbS?:crazy:

I already told you that there will be and are critics of MbS or any OTHER leader but that the majority support his reforms and to know that you will have to be a Saudi Arabian or Arab that follows Saudi Arabian/Arab social media, talks with Saudi Arabians, visits Saudi Arabia (more precisely lives) etc. Not by reading said articles.

Sure. What are those "ludicrous" policies exactly?

Not really. Khashoggi was a traitor (otherwise he would not have been killed) that committed crimes worthy of the state getting rid of him if 1) Khashoggi did something that warranted his ending (grave treason) or 2) those involved killed him by mistake under a fight or wrong order, 3) this was an inside job by former courtiers (King Abdullah era, his brother was removed from the leadership of SANG so he has great grievances similar with the previous Crown Prince that was denoted in favor of MbS) to remove MbS and put blame on him as written earlier.

Anyway you are not going to convince me (lol) of MbS being Al-Assad reincarnated or that KSA is moving in the wrong direction. So I am afraid that we are wasting our time. You don't have to like him. Nobody is telling you to like him. Certainly not me.

You are also free to believe that "Islam is under attack" (lol) in KSA because of rightful economic and social reforms that have benefited the country so far by all measurable accounts.

Also put in mind what I wrote earlier.

1) KSA is at war.

2) The region is highly unstable.

3) There is a proxy war with Iran.

4) Post-Arab Spring, very few people want to turn their country into a new Syria, Libya, Yemen or Iraq due to "democracy".

5) There are no democracies in the region or Muslim world (real ones) and human rights are violated in each one of them. Some worse some better.

6) MbS is not a saint or perfect but he is the right leader at the right time for KSA due to the reasons that I have argued for and others. And most importantly due to his track record so far which is the most important thing.

7) Clerics are not infallible people. They commit mistakes too and can, like any person, do wrong, including treason and calling for instability, overthrow, supporting banned organizations and having ties with (currently) hostile governments. A state will obviously prevent that whether in Turkey, Iran, KSA, Pakistan or elsewhere. Some people that share such people's view will get angry, that is normal.

8) You cannot make everyone happy regardless of system implemented.
 
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What is hard about posting photos of KSA from Arab and non-Arab forums and posting them on PDF and writing a few comments about the places where those photos and videos have been taken in KSA? I am a very vast typer so I don't spend much time writing posts.

"Perfect image". There is no such thing and that must be your illusion or unfunded impression. Everyone here tries to post mainly positive news of their country irregardless of nationality. This is a normal thing. In particular on this section where there is hardly any constructive debate but mostly trolling.

Torture happens everywhere. What is your point? It happens in the UK as well.

I already answered you about Khashoggi.

That is the reality if you believe Qatari and Iranian regime media and social-liberal UK pamphlets and Amnesty International. Are you even aware of the fact that the same media are writing the same propaganda about Pakistan and every Muslim and non-Western country?

Has millions of Uighurs not been killed and put into "concentration camps" if Western media is to be believed? Do you blindly believe Western media or media in general?

Are you really comparing Al-Assad with MbS?:crazy:

I already told you that there will be and are critics of MbS or any OTHER leader but that the majority support his reforms and to know that you will have to be a Saudi Arabian or Arab that follows Saudi Arabian/Arab social media, talks with Saudi Arabians, visits Saudi Arabia (more precisely lives) etc. Not by reading said articles.

Sure. What are those "ludicrous" policies exactly?

Not really. Khashoggi was a traitor (otherwise he would not have been killed) that committed crimes worthy of the state getting rid of him if 1) Khashoggi did something that warranted his ending (grave treason) or 2) those involved killed him by mistake under a fight or wrong order, 3) this was an inside job by former courtiers (King Abdullah era, his brother was removed from the leadership of SANG so he has great grievances similar with the previous Crown Prince that was denoted in favor of MbS) to remove MbS and put blame on him as written earlier.

Anyway you are not going to convince me (lol) of MbS being Al-Assad reincarnated or that KSA is moving in the wrong direction. So I am afraid that we are wasting our time. You don't have to like him. Nobody is telling you to like him. Certainly not me.

Yes I am comparing Assad with MBS. They are both tyrants. If MBS is so oppressive during peace time, imagine what he'd do in a civil war to retain his power. Many of these current arab rulers are nothing more than tyrants.

But you do give a fantasized view of them. And yes it does take time to gather all these images and videos and to type about them. There are some people who do it a little bit but you do a lot. Even on Saif al arab, you used to do the same thing excessively, that's how I guessed it was you. You deny anything bad and when you can't deny the bad then you try to place the blame elsewhere, surprised you didn't blame Thanos for khashoggi's death instead of MBS.

Probably happens in the UK but it ain't comparable to Saudi. Saudi is far worse.

Yes uighurs are oppressed? Not sure what your point is though.

Like I said, not many people are going to give their real political views due to the threat posed by being negative of MBS. So it's pointless going to Saudi and asking them. Mightaswell go damascus and ask about assad (as i said before...).

His policies regarding people who disagree with him, the whole Qatar issue (Saudi and the UAE behaving like children), thinks allowing WWE and concerts will "progress" his nation lol, his drawn out war in yemen which should've really been ended quicker, stupid actions like killing khashoggi in an embassy which resulted in masses of negative PR etc... He plays the role of a leader like people play rome total war. No skill or talent (other than for brutality), another tyrant off the conveyor belt of arab regime rulers.

Yeh I don't think you'll be convinced either. But who cares, these kinds of opinions sometimes take years to change because they're normally embedded through other beliefs like ultra nationalism.
 
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Yes I am comparing Assad with MBS. They are both tyrants. If MBS is so oppressive during peace time, imagine what he'd do in a civil war to retain his power. Many of these current arab rulers are nothing more than tyrants.

But you do give a fantasized view of them. And yes it does take time to gather all these images and videos and to type about them. There are some people who do it a little bit but you do a lot. Even on Saif al arab, you used to do the same thing excessively, that's how I guessed it was you. You deny anything bad and when you can't deny the bad then you try to place the blame elsewhere, surprised you didn't blame Thanos for khashoggi's death instead of MBS.

Probably happens in the UK but it ain't comparable to Saudi. Saudi is far worse.

Yes uighurs are oppressed? Not sure what your point is though.

Like I said, not many people are going to give their real political views due to the threat posed by being negative of MBS. So it's pointless going to Saudi and asking them. Mightaswell go damascus and ask about assad (as i said before...).

His policies regarding people who disagree with him, the whole Qatar issue (Saudi and the UAE behaving like children), thinks allowing WWE and concerts will "progress" his nation lol, his drawn out war in yemen which should've really been ended quicker, stupid actions like killing khashoggi in an embassy which resulted in masses of negative PR etc... He plays the role of a leader like people play rome total war. No skill or talent (other than for brutality), another tyrant off the conveyor belt of arab regime rulers.

Yeh I don't think you'll be convinced either. But who cares, these kinds of opinions sometimes take years to change because they're normally embedded through other beliefs like ultra nationalism.
Any evidence on torture in KSa? On MBS being a Tyrant or all Arab leaders being tyrants? Or just Sh***ing from your mouth?
 
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Any evidence on torture in KSa? On MBS being a Tyrant or all Arab leaders being tyrants? Or just Sh***ing from your mouth?

Do you want me to go there personally and ask MBS whether I can take some videos for you? If MBS can brutally murder someone in an embassy, what makes you think Saudi wouldn't torture people?

Some people are the first on jumps on Iran's throat for an alleged crime but then they suddenly are in disbelief when their own tyrant commits crimes. If you care justice then you need to stop closing your eyes to your own leaders crimes.

Never said all, but yes many arab leaders are nothing more than tyrants.
 
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@Numerous

With all due respect you have not provided any proof whatsoever of your doomsday predictions. As I wrote everything measurable (economy, science, education, non-oil economy, startups, R&D, indigenous military sector, foreign relations, social and religious reforms) show a completely different picture.

You focusing on some imprisoned clerics, that might or might not have been "tortured", I cannot base my entire judgement on in regards to MbS doing well or not.

MbS is not = all Arab leaders. I have a question, are you content with Pakistani leaders? Afghan ones? Muslim African ones? Iranian leaders? Turkish leaders (ask the average Turk if he and his pockets are happy about Erdogan)? Or maybe Central Asian dictators that are flooding in oil and gas yet have shithole societies and countries compared to the GCC on every front? And who have lost their culture by large as well and religion unlike us? What kind of utopia do you want to have? I don't assume that you are a fan of militant Islamism either otherwise you would have joined some of those groups and their "utopia". Those projects did not work well either.

Look I don't follow any individual or regime blindly but please share your perfect (realistic) vision as of 2019. Given the regional events, regional realities and that of the world. You don't think that democracy is some holy grail either (I support meritocracy in terms of state functions) what about you? Islamic meritocracy is possible and any meritocracy regardless of religion.

Also I don't support oppression of innocent people regardless of their viewpoints. Unless they are traitors or directly working to destroy the country. There is a reason why treason is the most harsh and serious crime alongside murder etc.

My ideal (as of now) is a constitutional monarchy that works together with a official state-regulated clergy that acts like a guaranteer of tradition and religion and serves like a figurehead/father figure/unity figure for the nation and a civilian government elected but possibly with as much meritocracy as possible. All while being true to your religion, culture and norms but without stagnating in terms of development. Currently there is a rather fine balance. Extremes (to either side), too much Islamism or too much liberalism/feminism whatever, destroys nations.

People should and can have different viewpoints without creating hostilities and enemies 24/7. I do not like social-liberals on steroid or hardcore Islamists but I can argue and have a normal conversation with both parties and probably we could agree on many fronts and work something out from that alone.

When you live in a region as o 2019, where you have citizens that are ready to kill for some trash group abroad (ISIS), luckily extremely few people in KSA, or who are whoring themselves out to MB, Qatar and others in hope for some influence in case their "project" succeeds for personal gain deserve everything bad that happens to them. Zero respect for such people. I disagree with a lot in KSA but that does not mean that I shall work to destroy the country and thus turn the country into a shithole. I prefer to argue my case and do what I believe is right and serve as a good example in the real world. If everyone acted on their ideal dreams, we would have 500 million Arab countries as nobody agrees with the other 100%. This way we could have 500 million dictators.
 
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@Numerous

With all due respect you have not provided any proof whatsoever of your doomsday predictions. As I wrote everything measurable (economy, science, education, non-oil economy, startups, R&D, indigenous military sector, foreign relations, social and religious reforms) show a completely different picture.

You focusing on some imprisoned clerics, that might or might not have been "tortured", I cannot base my entire judgement on in regards to MbS doing well or not.

MbS is not = all Arab leaders. I have a question, are you content with Pakistani leaders? Afghan ones? Muslim African ones? Iranian leaders? Turkish leaders (ask the average Turk if he and his pockets are happy about Erdogan)? Or maybe Central Asian dictators that are flooding in oil and gas yet have shithole societies and countries compared to the GCC on every front? And who have lost their culture by large as well and religion unlike us? What kind of utopia do you want to have? I don't assume that you are a fan of militant Islamism either otherwise you would have joined some of those groups and their "utopia". Those projects did not work well either.

Look I don't follow any individual or regime blindly but please share your perfect (realistic) vision as of 2019. Given the regional events, regional realities and that of the world. You don't think that democracy is some holy grail either (I support meritocracy in terms of state functions) what about you? Islamic meritocracy is possible and any meritocracy regardless of religion.

Also I don't support oppression of innocent people regardless of their viewpoints. Unless they are traitors or directly working to destroy the country. There is a reason why treason is the most harsh and serious crime alongside murder etc.

My ideal (as of now) is a constitutional monarchy that works together with a official state-regulated clergy that acts like a guaranteer of tradition and religion and serves like a figurehead/father figure/unity figure for the nation and a civilian government elected but possibly with as much meritocracy as possible. All while being true to your religion, culture and norms but without stagnating in terms of development. Currently there is a rather fine balance. Extremes (to either side), too much Islamism or too much liberalism/feminism whatever, destroys nations.

People should and can have different viewpoints without creating hostilities and enemies 24/7. I do not like social-liberals on steroid or hardcore Islamists but I can argue and have a normal conversation with both parties and probably we could agree on many fronts and work something out from that alone.

When you live in a region as o 2019, where you have citizens that are ready to kill for some trash group abroad (ISIS), luckily extremely few people in KSA, or who are whoring themselves out to MB, Qatar and others in hope for some influence in case their "project" succeeds for personal gain deserve everything bad that happens to them. Zero respect for such people. I disagree with a lot in KSA but that does not mean that I shall work to destroy the country and thus turn the country into a shithole. I prefer to argue my case and do what I believe is right and serve as a good example in the real world. If everyone acted on their ideal dreams, we would have 500 million Arab countries as nobody agrees with the other 100%. This way we could have 500 million dictators.

Muslim leaders today generally suck, whether they be arab or pakistani or afghan etc... Maybe once a while we get someone good but the good guys are a minority in our time. Whilst your leadership system isn't perfect, I believe that it's superor to democracy, I have problems with the actions of your ruler rather him being the ruler.

Well I'm simply going off the trend - when Muslims get a tyrant ruling over their country, the country tends to go downhill due to said tyrants bad decisions. I mean look at your international standing, it's taken so much damage due to MBS, currently you have something that people need (oil) so many countries condemn but otherwise carry on doing business. But who's going to tolerate him when he loses his ace card in oil?

MBS openly promotes sin in society. The oppression from him has started and it affects pretty much anyone who disagrees with him. Sooner or later, if you people carry on supporting him, then the punishment of Allah will follow.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm no perfect Muslim, I do wrong things etc... But I don't openly support these things in society and what I see him doing is literally promoting open sins. And if your claim is true, that the majority support him in this, then the future is bleak for you.

There is no such thing as Islamism, that's just become a word to oppose certain parts of Islam without saying it outright. Either a society follows Islam or it doesn't bro. If you're talking about extremes then we judge them by Islam too. For example, I remember reading a story in which some companions (a handful) took to staying away from their wives and fasting all the time. This behaviour was termed to not be right and so they were rebuked. That would be going to an extreme. Likewise liberalism at the other end would may be someone doing something haram outright and openly etc... Of course we have to keep in the middle but that middle is dictated by Islam. A person can't do bad things and say they're trying to stay in the middle.

Sometimes when people bring up all these figures and economics etc... They forgot who provides them with success and money. They forget the limits that Allah has set and forget what happens to those who go beyond these limits. Sure look at your figures and chart but don't forget to look at what Islam says about those who start doing or supporting certain bad things in society and you should prioritise the latter over the former because the latter is more important.
 
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Muslim leaders today generally suck, whether they be arab or pakistani or afghan etc... Maybe once a while we get someone good but the good guys are a minority in our time. Whilst your leadership system isn't perfect, I believe that it's superor to democracy, I have problems with the actions of your ruler rather him being the ruler.

Well I'm simply going off the trend - when Muslims get a tyrant ruling over their countr, they country tends to go downhill due to said tyrants bad decisions. I mean look at your international standing, it's taken so much damage due to MBS, currently you have something that people need (oil) so many countries o condemn but otherwise carry on doing business. But who's going to tolerate him when he loses his ace card in oil?

MBS openly promotes sin in society. The oppression from him has started and it affects pretty much anyone who disagrees with him. Sooner or later, if you people carry on supporting him, then the punishment of Allah may follow.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm no perfect Muslim, I do wrong things etc... But I don't openly support these things in society and what I see him doing is literally promoting open sins. And if your claim is true, that the majority support him in this, then the future is bleak for you.

There is no such thing as Islamism, that's just become a word to oppose certain parts of Islam without saying it outright. Either a society follows Islam or it doesn't bro. If you're talking about extremes then we judge them by Islam too. For example, I remember reading a story in which some companions (a handful) took to staying away from their wives and fasting all the time. This behaviour was termed to not be right and so they were rebuked. That would be going to an extreme. Likewise liberalism at the other end would may be someone something haram outright and openly etc... Of course we have to keep in the middle but that middle is dictated by Islam. A person can't do bad things and say they're trying to stay in the middle.

I agree with that. Evidence on the ground proves it. However the GCC is the exception since the leaders have done well overall in particular compared to the standards of the Muslim and developing world. Evidence on the ground proves it as well.

Calling MbS a tyrant is not something that makes sense in my eyes. KSA is the richest country in the Muslim world and one of the richest countries on the planet in terms of natural resources (much more than just oil) and minerals. KSA's incredibly strategic position in the world too. Hajj and Umrah. The non-oil sector of the economy is booming. Our scientific and educational output is also great.

"Openly promotes sin"? Elaborate.

KSA is already Islamic. Dare I say more Islamic than most if not all countries. However KSA has rightly reformed and returned to the pre-Sahwa and original path (pre-1979) and there is nothing "un-Islamic" about it. What is un-Islamic about allowing women to drive? Or for them to enter football stadiums. Men and women prayed together at the time of Prophet Muhammad (saws). What is un-Islamic in removing some of the un-Islamic and retarded laws of the past?

Islamism is a nonsense word indeed but so are many of the aspects that we are discussing. Let us use ISIS as an example. What would we call that? It is just words. The reality on the ground matters and what is just or unjust and what makes sense and what makes no sense. To not have women drive in the year 2019 when they are a productive part of our society (more women university graduates than men, women in all positions of power and influence) is unjust. Covering such a moronic law under some "Islamic garb" is the work of retarded "Islamists" or whatever you want to call them.

As for science and education, I already posted it but it seems you missed it so posting it again:

Oiling the wheels on a road to success

Nature volume 532, pages S13–S15 (28 April 2016) | Download Citation

With the benefit of a sustainable plan and the funds to back it, Saudi Arabia is aiming high.

Saudi Arabia's scientific development may be in its infancy, but the oil-rich Kingdom is making strides in terms of research investment and publication — with a clear ambition to one day join those in the highest echelons.

532S13a-i1.jpg

KAUST students embark on a new school year with a commencement ceremony. The relatively new university has quickly made an impact on the Nature Index. Image: KAUST

In 2012, Saudi Arabia had a weighted fractional count (WFC) of 52.84 in the index, sitting behind Turkey, Iran, Mexico, Chile and South Africa. In four years it rose 86.8% to reach a WFC of 98.67, leapfrogging all these countries to compete with Chile and Argentina globally. Saudi Arabia ranks at number 31 in the world in terms of WFC — up from 39 in 2012.

The country has risen even higher in specific subject areas. In chemistry, for example, it has surpassed countries with a strong scientific impact like Finland and Ireland, with its WFC rising to 66.54, achieving almost a three-fold increase from its position in 2012.

Institutionally, the country's leading science hub King Abdullah University of Science and Technology (KAUST) made an impressive leap in its WFC between 2012 and 2015, carving a place for itself to compete with American and European research powerhouses.

In just four years, its WFC has risen to become higher than those of prestigious institutions including the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN), Brookhaven National Laboratory (BNL), the University of Georgia, United States, and Dresden University of Technology, Germany, to name a few. The output of all of these institutions dwarfed KAUST's in 2012, but KAUST's impressive trajectory since then has seen its WFC shoot to 72 in 2015, overtaking these heavy-hitters.

The country's science development ambitions have been backed by action. Since 2008, the country has embarked on a multi-tiered strategy that will see the Kingdom overhaul its science infrastructure, build high-spec labs, secure grants for research in priority areas in applied science, and link science to industries that drive the economy.

The strategy, broken into four stages to be implemented by 2030, aims to eventually “see Saudi Arabia become a leader in Asia and give it an economic power based on science,” says Abdulaziz Al-Swailem, vice president of scientific research support at King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology (KACST).

532S13a-i2.jpg

The Saudi Human Genome Project will sequence 100,000 human genomes to conduct biomedical research in the Saudi population. Image: Fayez Nureldine/AFP/Getty Images

Saudi Arabia's march to the top Saudi Arabia's efforts to boost its scientific research have been paying off, with its output in the Nature Index (WFC) rising steadily over the years. The two graphs below highlight Saudi Arabia's rise compared to other nations, both overall and for chemistry.

Overall output In 2012 Saudi Arabia's overall output in the index was below all the countries shown, but continuous efforts have seen the Kingdom's WFC rise to overtake them all in 2015.

532S13a-g1.jpg

Chemistry More marked than its overall rise, Saudi Arabia has made great strides in chemistry. After accelerated growth, which saw the Kingdom's chemistry WFC triple since 2012, it has outshone many larger players in the field in 2015.

532S13a-g2.jpg

The Kingdom's science investments focus on applied research that feeds directly into the country's industrial interests, particularly the oil and energy sector. But even in its strong subjects, chemistry and the physical sciences, Saudi Arabia's WFC remains modest compared to big players in Asia like China, Japan and South Korea.

“Saudi Arabia could look to some successful emerging economies for inspiration.”

To truly swim comfortably with these bigger fish, Saudi Arabia may benefit from looking at successful emerging economies in Asia.

One inspiration could be India. In addition to multi-disciplinary scientific and technical advancements that have improved its output in the index from 736.5 to 901.4 in the past four years, the subcontinental giant has joined the exclusive club of countries that have launched successful space missions.

Like Saudi Arabia, India's leading research institutes focus on chemistry, and their total output currently outstrips their Saudi Arabian counterparts by almost a factor of seven (the latter surpassing 472 in 2015, while the former is 66.5).

India's prowess in chemistry is something that Saudi Arabia can aspire to, considering that working conditions for researchers in the Kingdom are more conducive.

India's science ecosystem is far from perfect. Research funding cannot keep up with inflation and a general slowdown in the country's economy. In addition, commentators from the research community say the funding processes are lengthy, bureaucratic, and provide little feedback when applications for grants are turned down. Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia's healthy stream of oil revenue provides assured funding for the country's state-of-the-art research facilities.

While India has slightly increased spending and dedicated US$1.19 billion for the next fiscal year (2016–2017) for science, it has around 700 universities and 200,000 full-time researchers drawing on the same funding pot. By contrast, Saudi Arabia has pledged an education and training budget of US$50.9 billion for next year, which includes higher education and scientific research. With a total population of just 30 million, it has a much lower number of full-time researchers competing for the available resources.

Another impressive trajectory that Saudi Arabia might look to emulate is that of Singapore, which has a smaller population as well and has managed to climb high in the index. Like the Kingdom, Singapore also has a focus on chemistry research, and it has put together a similar top-down national science strategy for research institutes across the country. Both countries have strong collaborations with top universities around the world and are welcoming of foreign researchers in their efforts to drive innovation.

Mansour Alghamdi, director of the general directorate of scientific awareness and publishing at KACST, is optimistic that Saudi Arabia can bridge the large gap that currently exists in the volume of scientific output between it and such countries as India and Singapore.

“The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has a clear plan to do so and it has the resources,” he says.

Future growth

An internationally rising star This graph shows KAUST's rise compared to a selection of other institutions*. *Institutions shown are those that were furthest above KAUST in 2012, have experienced overall growth in WFC by 2015 and have been overtaken by KAUST in 2015. For clarity, only 2012 and 2015 data points are shown.

532S13a-g3.jpg

In 2012, Saudi's ranking in research output, with a WFC of 52.8, meant it was comparable with countries like South Africa, Turkey and Iran, all hovering around the 60–70 mark. Its WFC stood way below countries like Mexico, Hungary, Chile, Greece and Argentina.

532S13a-i3.jpg

532S13a-i4.jpg

Saudi Arabian researchers benefit from cutting-edge labs and generous funding that has boosted the country's R&D. Image: Top: KACST; Bottom: KAUST

Four years later, the country's research outlook is very different and it is surpassing countries like Argentina, Mexico and Hungary in the index, and levelling the playing field with Chile. Chemistry research led the country's rapid rise to surpass these countries, but its life sciences and physical sciences WFCs of 8.5 and 31.5 still lag behind.

However, the Kingdom's AC has been steadily growing in these two fields over the past four years, hinting at the ever-increasing significance of international collaborations. It seems that Saudi Arabian researchers are casting their nets ever wider and are participating in publishing more articles, to the detriment of the WFC accredited for these articles.

Though international collaboration has proved fruitful, Saudi Arabia must keep a focus on nurturing home-grown talent, says Nasser Al-Aqeeli, dean of research at King Fahd University of Petroleum & Minerals (KFUPM), based in Dhahran's 'techno valley' in the eastern region of the Kingdom. In the next five years, he says, the country will focus on a programme for national capacity building.

A good first step was the Saudi government's decision to create a large scholarship programme in 2005, arguably the largest in the world, which has seen more than 200,000 young Saudi Arabians studying abroad. This makes Saudi Arabian students in the United States the fourth largest bloc of expatriate students, following those of China, India and South Korea. The government hopes these students will come back and drive a scientific culture in the country.

“Its rise up the ranks depends on a 'self-correcting mechanism' of a slow start to sustainable growth.”

Saudi Arabia is also looking to increase its applied research focus, which is an integral part of the current phase of its national science strategy, while securing good funding for basic research as well. Al-Aqeeli says that Saudi's journey involves what he termed a “self-correcting mechanism” where the country is having a slow start in high-impact research, but a more sustainable one. An eventual future move towards basic research might help Saudi Arabia's research capacity to mature.

https://www.nature.com/articles/532S13a

A few days ago Saudi Arabian students won gold medals in an international physics and science olympiad in Latvia. Will post the article in a few minutes when I find it.

Saudi foundation wins gold, bronze in European Physics Olympiad

RIYADH: Azan Al-Majnooni and Hisham Al-Maliki, of the King Abdul Aziz and his Companions Foundation for Giftedness and Creativity (Mawhiba), won gold and bronze medals respectively at the European Physics Olympiad (EUPHO) 2019, in Riga, Latvia.
The contest ran from May 31 to June 4, and the Saudi duo were praised for their awards by the secretary-general of Mawhiba, Dr. Saud bin Saeed Al-Mathami.
Al-Mathami stressed that the accomplishments were achieved thanks to government support for the sciences and the foundation. This was the first time the Kingdom had taken part in EUPHO, which hosted 26 other nations.
“This comes as an extension to the march toward achieving the targets of the Kingdom’s Vision 2030 through improving education and building a solid base for a talented generation, capable of realizing the aspirations of a state able to rely on creativity and innovation as a means to achieve,” he said.
The secretary-general added that Saudi Arabia paid great attention to gifted and talented citizens, catering their needs and requirements, upgrading services and programs supporting them, and creating the right environment to grow and develop their abilities.
Al-Mathami underlined that this victory was the result of fruitful and constructive cooperation between Mawhiba and King Abdullah University of Science and Technology and the Royal Commission for Jubail and Yanbu.
EUPHO is an international student contest, first held in 2017 in Estonia, and then in Russia 12 months later.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1506936/saudi-arabia

Here is a statistic:

As of 2018, Saudi Arabia ranks 28 worldwide in terms of high-quality research output according to the renowned scientific journal Nature.[564] This makes Saudi Arabia the best performing Middle Eastern, Arab and Muslim country.

Saudi Arabia spends 8.8 % of its gross domestic product on education, compared with the global average of 4.6%, which is nearly double the global average on education.[565]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia

Courtesy of @The SC

Saudi Crown Prince commends $76.5bn non-oil revenue in 2018

Saudi Arabia’s non-oil revenue has more than doubled between 2014 and 2018 to $76.5bn (SAR287bn), and Crown Prince HRH Mohammed Bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud said this growth underscores the kingdom’s economic achievements as outlined by the goals of its Vision 2030 long-term diversification programme.

The Crown Prince said Saudi Arabia’s economic and structural reforms are steadily moving to achieve the targets of Vision 2030, which is also accounted for in the 2019 budget. The document was approved by Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, HRH King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud of Saudi Arabia, on 18 December, 2018.

Calling financial stability a fundamental pillar of economic progress, the Crown Prince said reforms introduced in Saudi Arabia over the last two years have directly contributed to the kingdom’s steady reduction in budget deficit. The kingdom announced a budgetary shortfall for the sixth year in a row as part of its 2019 budget. On 18 December, Saudi announced that its projected 2019 deficit of $36.2bn (SAR136bn) is 32% lower than the corresponding value expected for 2018, $52bn (SAR195bn).

But it is the growth of non-oil revenues that stands out in Saudi Arabia’s 2019 budget announcement. In 2014, non-oil earnings worth $33.9bn (SAR127bn) contributed 12% to Saudi Arabia’s total revenue, and this number has surged to 32% in 2018, when the corresponding figure is valued at $76.5bn. In a statement, Saudi Arabia’s Minister of Finance, Mohammed Al-Jadaan, said this growth is “largely attributed to the continued implementation of economic reforms and initiatives such as value-added tax (VAT) and energy price reforms”.

https://www.constructionweekonline....prince-commends-765bn-non-oil-revenue-in-2018

2017 mind you..


Crowning achievements


1- Saudi Vision 2030

On April 25, 2016, then deputy crown prince put forth the ambitious Vision 2030 project, aimed at pulling Saudi's economy away from its dependence on oil, implementing structural reforms, and opening the country to diversified sources of income and investments.

2-Saudi PMO

Then deputy crown prince was also behind the launching of Saudi National Transformation Plan (NTP) 2020 across 24 government bodies operating in the economic and development sectors, and most importantly having in 2016 initiated the Project Management Office (PMO), which puts certain consultancies in position to bring more efficiency to the public sector, and mediate issues related to government services.

3- Aramco IPO

In October 2016, it was announced that Aramco was selling 5% of its shares for an estimated value of $100bn, based on a $2trn estimation that the government has put out. The sale, orchestrated by then deputy crown prince, will take place in 2018.

4- Saudi women driving

The Saudi crown prince sponsored the Saudi lifting the world's only ban on women driving, with implementation in June 2018 to allow for the proper laws and procedures to take effect. Already, many advertisers, such as Coca Cola have taken advantage of this and put their products behind the wheel as well.

5- Saudi entertainment

Keen on attracting tourists, but also on keeping Saudis in the country instead of seeing them travel away on tourism, the crown prince was behind the idea of launching a $2.7bn entertainment firm heralding a new era for the kingdom that could relax previously stringent rules on movie viewing, and theatre, among others.

6- NEOM + 50 virgin islands

Virgin Group founder Sir Richard Branson announced his intent to invest in a Red Sea project that turn 50 Saudi Arabian islands into luxury tourism destinations, and the $500bn 100% renewable NEOM city by the Red Sea, with SoftBank investing $$billions into the project as well. Both development projects were launched by the crown prince.

7- VOIP

The crown prince approved Saudi Arabia's lifting of its ban on voice calls such as Skype,WhatsApp and other applications, whereas this was not legally possible before, and with it, a new era of open communication was launched.


https://www.ameinfo.com/industry/finance/crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salmans-top-7-achievements
 
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I agree with that. Evidence on the ground proves it. However the GCC is the exception since the leaders have done well overall in particular compared to the standards of the Muslim and developing world. Evidence on the ground proves it as well.

Calling MbS a tyrant is not something that makes sense in my eyes. KSA is the richest country in the Muslim world and one of the richest countries on the planet in terms of natural resources (much more than just oil) and minerals. KSA's incredibly strategic position in the world too. Hajj and Umrah. The non-oil sector of the economy is booming. Our scientific and educational output is also great.

"Openly promotes sin"? Elaborate.

KSA is already Islamic. Dare I say more Islamic than most if not all countries. However KSA has rightly reformed and returned to the pre-Sahwa and original path (pre-1979) and there is nothing "un-Islamic" about it. What is un-Islamic about allowing women to drive? Or for them to enter football stadiums. Men and women prayed together at the time of Prophet Muhammad (saws). What is un-Islamic in removing some of the un-Islamic and retarded laws of the past?

Islamism is a nonsense word indeed but so are many of the aspects that we are discussing. Let us use ISIS as an example. What would we call that? It is just words. The reality on the ground matters and what is just or unjust and what makes sense and what makes no sense. To not have women drive in the year 2019 when they are a productive part of our society (more women university graduates than men, women in all positions of power and influence) is unjust. Covering such a moronic law under some "Islamic garb" is the work of retarded "Islamists" or whatever you want to call them.

Well I think we will just have to agree to disagree on him being a tyrant. I've said what I wanted to say on that matter.

That's good that you have resources other than oil and certain other sectors are good. But this doesn't always mean a successful country in the long term. Look at Iran, so much potential, but their ruling ayotollahs have slowly destroyed them in their pursuit of their conquest of the sunni world.

I mentioned the example of WWE (even without womens matches) and concerts before. These are just two examples of the top of my head of openly promoting sinning.

Well the driving thing really only existed for you as a country but that's not what I'm talking about or disagreeing with.

Yeh men and women prayed together but there is some kind of separation required, not necessarily a curtain or different room but e.g the women pray behind the men. Why are you mentioning this though? I don't think Saudi promotes mixed prayer rows :p

The football stadium thing may be regards to women viewing the awrah of men playing football. I don't know, haven't looked into the saudi reasoning but I doubt it got banned for no reason.

Yeh but the word islamism is normally thrown at everyone from ISIS to normal Muslims doing islamic things to MB etc... I don't really like the word. Westerners use it a lot to attack us. If you want to specifically criticise a certain group then best to just say the groups name.
 
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Well I think we will just have to agree to disagree on him being a tyrant. I've said what I wanted to say on that matter.

That's good that you have resources other than oil and certain other sectors are good. But this doesn't always mean a successful country in the long term. Look at Iran, so much potential, but their ruling ayotollahs have slowly destroyed them in their pursuit of their conquest of the sunni world.

I mentioned the example of WWE (even without womens matches) and concerts before. These are just two examples of the top of my head of openly promoting sinning.

Well the driving thing really only existed for you as a country but that's not what I'm talking about or disagreeing with.

Yeh men and women prayed together but there is some kind of separation required, not necessarily a curtain or different room but e.g the women pray behind the men. Why are you mentioning this though? I don't think Saudi promotes mixed prayer rows :p

The football stadium thing may be regards to women viewing the awrah of men playing football. I don't know, haven't looked into the saudi reasoning but I doubt it got banned for no reason.

Yeh but the word islamism is normally thrown at everyone from ISIS to normal Muslims doing islamic things to MB etc... I don't really like the word. Westerners use it a lot to attack us. If you want to specifically criticise a certain group then best to just say the groups name.

As I said that is your right if you believe that. I am not interested in convincing anyone of the opposite. What I care about is the well-being of KSA.

KSA is a richer country than Iran in terms of natural resources and mineral wealth. Unlike Iran we are not ruled by retards either. The Mullah lot nor the previous lot (Shah).

WWE is mostly wrestling. A sport that was common at the time of Prophet Muhammad (saws). I see nothing wrong with it.

Concerts neither. Music was played at the time of the Prophet (saws) and in every Islamic era.

What? There are mixed prayer rows in KSA.

So you are against women entering football stadiums if decently dressed and sitting with husbands relatives or in their own section of the stadium?

As for the MB, everywhere where they have ruled in the Arab world, they have been less "strict" in terms of implementation of Islam than what we see with MbS so why are you not calling them tyrants and sinners?
 
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I think that they have very few options long-term. If (it will eventually happen) the US decides to relocate resources to more important areas of the world (for them) such as the Pacific and East Asia to counter China (their future biggest rival) the regional powers that will be (KSA is already one) will have to take over the security of those states as we already do partially in Bahrain. UAE is much stronger than the other smaller GCC states but I imagine a federal state that is composed of all GCC states. More or less the same people, same geography, same culture by large, same language by large (dialects notwithstanding), tied by millennia old history, ancestry etc. It will happen naturally as it already did when the GCC was created. Most people are very much in favor of it. It would also help solve the Yemen question once and for all. Leaders will no longer be able to look elsewhere but do something long-lasting as Yemen's security and future would be theirs and vice versa. Solve the problem of potential manpower etc.

If that happens KSA will no longer exist as we know it but it does not matter as it is all Arabia. The oldest regional region along with Mesopotamia next door.

This is not about some kind of invasion and MbS proclaiming himself as an emperor or what Hitler did in Austria. It is more or less an organic movement that will happen naturally irregardless of who rules and what entities that geography (Arabia) will be made up of. I have no doubt about it but it is not really in the books in the near future as it is not in the interest of the big powers (China, Russia nor the US). Regional countries will do everything to prevent it as well. That however will only work for so long.

I predict the same thing in other areas of the Arab world. 3-4 strong regional blocs will be created. At least they should. Either that or those regions will not fulfill their potential and forever be dependent on others in matters of strategic importance. For that to occur you would also have to change the ruling systems in place and give power to the people and let their voice be heard as this is what most people would want to by large. If they would have to vote with their pockets even more so and if security is a theme!



Unification will occur as I see it. Without a doubt. See post 25. But yes, borders throughout the history of mankind have only changed due to 2 reasons. Unifications/treaties that occurred peacefully or through conquest. Nowadays conquest is mostly a thing of the past although you at times see incidents such as Crimea but they are very rare for a good reason and only done by superpowers (Russia). Anyone else (Iraq in Kuwait) and hell breaks loose. There is a reason why the rulers of those smaller GCC states have allowed the US in. Indirectly (although it is not spoken about) it is "security" against KSA too. Neither the US would like us (KSA) to swallow all of Arabia up nor would the leaders want to lose their throne. Look at Qatar. They would have been invaded by us (worst case scenario) if not for the US military base since 1995. Calculated move by the former Sheikh. Politics is a mess.

Well if that happens then Saudi population will be huge and it would undoubtedly be an economic and military super power. Would automatically be the main player in the Middle East.
 
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