Saudi Arabia includes Ramayana, Mahabharata and other nations’ literature in its curriculum

[Varunastra]

There are always sections of societies that are going to be like that. What's important is that the majority doesn't become closed minded and respects the rights of others(in terms of religion and otherwise).

As for Indians constantly beating the same old drum about Pakistanis denying their "Hindu/Buddhist past" "claiming to be Arab/Turk".
First let me say at a personal level...
...on my mom's side(her family/ancestors)...trace their lineage all the way to Abu Bakr Siddiq(RA)...the first Caliph and one of the closest friends of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH). There is a shajra-e-nasb(an Arab tradition)...which is like a family tree/way of keeping track of lineage. On my dad's side...my grandfather migrated from India(that would make him Muhajir)...while my grandmother was Punjabi. I'm not sure about their lineages...but I assume their ancestors are from the subcontinent.
...so yes I can see why this could be the case with many Pakistanis...where they may truly have at least some Arab ancestry and they take pride in it bcuz we deeply respect/look up to our Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and his companions. In this regard...that ancestry may seem more significant over others while establishing one's identity.

Secondly and this is the most important part...Indians need to shut the hell up about how Pakistanis define their identity bcuz it is none of ur business. We Pakistanis made that very clear when we separated...that u do not get to dictate us in any way shape or form. So kindly stay out of it.

See you giving preference to one identity(which might be less probable no offense to anyone) over another which for obvious reasons is more probable shows the problem. It's none of our business right, we don't get to dictate right, but in the current context this makes a point.
Many Pakistanis(not all i do understand that) do want to erase /forget any remnants of their old culture and that would include the people that still follow them.
Do I want this to improve? Ofcourse I want Pakistanis to be more aware of it's Hindu past just as I want more Indians to be aware of it's Muslim past. I don't think Pakistan's current education system is helping in that front, feel free to show otherwise.

 

[Trango Towers]

True what you say about TT process. And we all how it is being misused by muslim men and mullas .The one wrong I find with talaq is ,women has no control,end of the day it's in the husband's hand.

Please....look at satti where you Hindus burn your wives alive when the husband dies...those that throw stones shouldn't live in glass houses

 

[RoadRunner401]

So what? Citizens of every country have the right to know about other cultures and traditions and it does not make them disbelievers or Idol worshippers.

There is nothing wrong with it and it's a positive step.

Indians as Over-cooked Rotis

Once Dr Radhakrishnan went for a dinner. There was a Briton at the event who said, “We are very dear to God.” Radhakrishnan laughed and told the gathering, “Friends, one day God felt like making rotis. When he was cooking the rotis, the first one was cooked less and the English were born. The second one stayed longer on the fire and the Negroes were born. Alert after His first two mistakes, when God went on to cook the third roti, it came out just right and as a result Indians were born.”—Page 8, Prernadeep -3. (Dr Radhakrishnan was the second president of India.)

This and several other bizarre passages are part of books that school children are being encouraged to read by the education department in the state of Gujarat. These books instruct students to look down upon foreigners, worship cows, die for their religion and shun “western practices” such as blowing out candles on birthdays. A senior official in the education department said these books were “reference material” for primary and secondary schools in the state.

Of course, most Indians are black- not “wheatish”. This book, supposedly written to instill national pride, ironically reinforces the deep-seated Indian inferiority complex of never being pale enough.

https://www.brownpundits.com/2014/07/30/indians-as-over-cooked-rotis/

 

[Rollno21]

Please....look at satti where you Hindus burn your wives alive when the husband dies...those that throw stones shouldn't live in glass houses

I don't know why you comparing two unrelated things ,in hinduism you can question and you won't be killed for it. Actually it encourages questioning ,
About satti no where in Hinduism it says wife should be burnt alive when husbands are dead,the tradition started first when wives did it willfully to avoid falling into the hands of invaders,later in some parts it became a tradition and women who don't wanted to be burnt alive were being put into flames. Then someone starts questioning the whole idea of satti and it's no longer followed.
Now on TT can it be questioned and any changes made to it.Answer these questions and see how stupid your comparison was.

 

[Trango Towers]

I don't know why you comparing two unrelated things ,in hinduism you can question and you won't be killed for it. Actually it encourages questioning ,
About satti no where in Hinduism it says wife should be burnt alive when husbands are dead,the tradition started first when wives did it willfully to avoid falling into the hands of invaders,later in some parts it became a tradition and women who don't wanted to be burnt alive were being put into flames. Then someone starts questioning the whole idea of satti and it's no longer followed.
Now on TT can it be questioned and any changes made to it.Answer these questions and see how stupid your comparison was.

Yes when the husband dies and the wife says please throw me on the fire....are you ok?.

Clearly she objects and you Hindus listen to her and do not throw her on the fire.

I mean do you Indians all go to the school of stupid...do the teach you to write crap.

 

[Rollno21]

Yes when the husband dies and the wife says please throw me on the fire....are you ok?.

Clearly she objects and you Hindus listen to her and do not throw her on the fire.

I mean do you Indian all go tobthe school of stupid...do the teach you to write crap.

You are dumber than I thought.
Read my post how the tradition started and how it changed and how it stopped.
It was stopped as it was wrong.
But on TT can it be altered or changed ,I guess no

 

[Trango Towers]

You are dumber than I thought.
Read my post how the tradition started and how it changed and how it stopped.
It was stopped as it was wrong.
But on TT can it be altered or changed ,I guess no

Idiot if you knew Islam you would know TT is not valid. But idiotic Indians keep drinking the good stuff and repeating nonsense. You also know cow urine is bad but doesn't stop you does it

 

[jamahir]

Farmer's revolt not present is due to the crippling poverty of the farmers....even to revolt you need a basic level of relative prosperity...The farmers of Haryana and Punjab are rich..They could afford to take time off work for close to a year...and had supplies for over a year of blockading and protesting .....

Then what about other societies / countries - like Russia, China, North Korea, Egypt, Afghanistan etc ? These were peasantry-based societies largely yet they revolted.

True, world should be educated about the difference between Buddhist concept of Karma and the perverted Hindu concept of Karma.

Well, I like the Hindu concept of "Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam" meaning "The world is one family". This is similar to the pan-human brotherhood sought by Islam and Communism. Pity that many practicing Hindus reject even Communism despite sharing at least one sentiment.

like Faiz and his comrades who tried to bring about a leftist coup in 1951 but got arrested.

That was as likely to succeed as Coms. Yechury and Karat bringing about a coup against ModiGee.

In my understanding Faiz and his comrades were closer to their goal compared to Yechury and Karat. I have met the state secretary for my state of one of the Indian public communist groups. About three meetings. He told me that they wish to achieve their goals by working within the ambit of the Constitution. Unfortunately I didn't ask what that means.

Anyway I have a theory as to why communism would not succeed in Muslim societies. As Allama Iqbal said Islam is Bolshevism + God. Now if they have the full loaf, why would they settle for half a bread.

Well, I believe that the full loaf will be all Muslims adopting Communism because I believe the Modern Communism can be considered an advancement of Islam. I quote from my thread whose OP is an article by Nadeem Paracha :

During the same period (1920s-30s), another (though lesser known) Islamic scholar in undivided India got smitten by the 1917 Russian revolution and Marxism.

Hafiz Rahman Sihwarwl saw Islam and Marxism sharing five elements in common: (1) prohibition of the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the privileged classes (2) organisation of the economic structure of the state to ensure social welfare (3) equality of opportunity for all human beings (4) priority of collective social interest over individual privilege and (5) prevention of the permanentising of class structure through social revolution.

The motivations for many of these themes he drew from the Qur’an, which he understood as seeking to create an economic order in which the rich pay excessive, though voluntary taxes (Zakat) to minimise differences in living standards.

In the areas that Sihwarwl saw Islam and communism diverge were Islam’s sanction of private ownership within certain limits, and in its refusal to recognise an absolutely classless basis of society.

He suggested that Islam, with its prohibition of the accumulation of wealth, is able to control the class structure through equality of opportunity.

Basically, both Sindhi and Sihwarwl had stumbled upon an Islamic concept of the social democratic welfare state.

My desire is for Muslims to meld their beliefs with Modern Communism.

2. AFAIK Communism came to govern Somalia, Albania and Afghanistan - all Muslim-majority. And then there were the Muslim republics in the USSR.

3. The PKI ( Communist Party of Indonesia, a Muslim-majority country ) was the third-largest communist group in the world, until 1965-66 when Suharto's mullah militia and right-leaning state forces genocided two million ( one source says three ) of PKI members, sympathizers or basically anyone even suspected to be associated with PKI. And there were / are communist groups in other Muslim-majority societies like Palestine and Iraq. The Communist Party of India had at least three of its founding members in 1920 in Tashkent being Muslims.

As if such things in Hinduism are taught to us in schools

What is the Hindu equivalent of the Islamic "Interest-based economics causes disharmony" ?

IMF chief economist also stated it will increase farmers income.

The IMF Chief Economist should first research on the few million people in India who had committed suicide because of socio-economic reasons since 1947 and India being an extremely capitalist society.

Only Punjab, no other farmer from any other state gave a F. It is only Punjabi Farmers who are triggered with this law. Bihar is also an agriculture dependent state yet no Farmer from Bihar came out opposing it except MEMEbers of Communishit Party of India-Marxshit (CPI-M). It is all a BS. Yesterday Rakesh Tikait Dakait was bringing thousands of more farmers to Delhi for protesting in covid times, for what?

1. There were farmer rallies taken out in Maharashtra and Karnataka too, and there were busloads of Bihari farmers going towards Delhi but they were stopped by police. You could have known of these informations through credible news agencies.

2. You complain of Rakesh Tikait bringing in farmers but don't mention Modi and other BJP functionaries doing rallies in West Bengal, Assam etc, all in COVID times.

why should indians read about islamic jurisprudence ?

One simple example. If India had adopted the "Suicide is haram" mentality of Islam, if India had adopted the socialistic socio-economics of Islam ( for example, "Interest-based economics is haram" ), would those 300,000+ Indian farmers have committed suicide between 1995 and 2015 because of socio-economic reasons ?

indians are rquired to know only basic things of islam which is taught in every school and college , stories about islam, battles , qarbala , prophet is taught in normal curiculam.

I am not much of an admirer of military campaigns but where in India's education system is taught what you mention ? I must mention here that I dropped out of college during the exam of 10+2.

The one wrong I find with talaq is ,women has no control,end of the day it's in the husband's hand.

The wife can also initiate talaq. quote a section from this thread OP of mine which is an article by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because that better secured her socio-economic future in case of divorce :

The contract of marriage (nikahnama) allows for negotiated terms and conditions, it can also include the right to a delegated divorce (talaq-e-tafweez) where the woman is delegated the right to divorce her husband if any of the negotiated terms and conditions are violate

a christian women wrote an article about superiority of muslim marraiage law is that enough for proving theory in to practical ? muslim law may be superior in theory , can you explain why muslim women are left shelterless with half dozen children ? , why shahbano was not getting her right of maintenance inspite of superior islamic marriage laws ? why a women is thrown out of marriage on a simple email like imran khan did divorced his wife reham by email when she was not even with his husband ?
how a man has right to produce 40 children ?

Will you not agree that what is at fault is not the theory but the implementation ? I am sure that those men who do Instant Triple Talaq and mistreat their wives in other ways are very pious and all that - never missing prayer, roza and all that.

 

[Rollno21]

Idiot if you knew Islam you would know TT is not valid. But idiotic Indians keep drinking the good stuff and repeating nonsense. You also know cow urine is bad but doesn't stop you does it

When you have no point to make bring ow urine ,So TT is not valid ,are you sure you are muslim .

Then what about other societies / countries - like Russia, China, North Korea, Egypt, Afghanistan etc ? These were peasantry-based societies largely yet they revolted.



Well, I like the Hindu concept of "Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam" meaning "The world is one family". This is similar to the pan-human brotherhood sought by Islam and Communism. Pity that many practicing Hindus reject even Communism despite sharing at least one sentiment.



In my understanding Faiz and his comrades were closer to their goal compared to Yechury and Karat. I have met the state secretary for my state of one of the Indian public communist groups. About three meetings. He told me that they wish to achieve their goals by working within the ambit of the Constitution. Unfortunately I didn't ask what that means.



Well, I believe that the full loaf will be all Muslims adopting Communism because I believe the Modern Communism can be considered an advancement of Islam. I quote from my thread whose OP is an article by Nadeem Paracha :

My desire is for Muslims to meld their beliefs with Modern Communism.

2. AFAIK Communism came to govern Somalia, Albania and Afghanistan - all Muslim-majority. And then there were the Muslim republics in the USSR.

3. The PKI ( Communist Party of Indonesia, a Muslim-majority country ) was the third-largest communist group in the world, until 1965-66 when Suharto's mullah militia and right-leaning state forces genocided two million ( one source says three ) of PKI members, sympathizers or basically anyone even suspected to be associated with PKI. And there were / are communist groups in other Muslim-majority societies like Palestine and Iraq. The Communist Party of India had at least three of its founding members in 1920 in Tashkent being Muslims.



What is the Hindu equivalent of the Islamic "Interest-based economics is haram" ?



The IMF Chief Economist should first research on the few million people in India who had committed suicide because of socio-economic reasons since 1947 and India being an extremely capitalist society.



1. There were farmer rallies taken out in Maharashtra and Karnataka too, and there were busloads of Bihari farmers going towards Delhi but they were stopped by police. You could have known of these informations through credible news agencies.

2. You complain of Rakesh Tikait bringing in farmers but don't mention Modi and other BJP functionaries doing rallies in West Bengal, Assam etc, all in COVID times.



One simple example. If India had adopted the "Suicide is haram" mentality of Islam, if India had adopted the socialistic socio-economics of Islam ( for example, "Interest-based economics is haram" ), would those 300,000+ Indian farmers have committed suicide between 1995 and 2015 because of socio-economic reasons ?



I am not much of an admirer of military campaigns but where in India's education system is taught what you mention ? I must mention here that I dropped out of college during the exam of 10+2.



The wife can also initiate talaq. quote a section from this thread OP of mine which is an article by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because that better secured her socio-economic future in case of divorce :





Will you not agree that what is at fault is not the theory but the implementation ? I am sure that those men who do Instant Triple Talaq and mistreat their wives in other ways are very pious and all that - never missing prayer, roza and all that.

Of course women can initiate divorce,but the point is at the end of the day husband will deside the out come.where as in TT wife has no say.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

What is the Hindu equivalent of the Islamic "Interest-based economics causes disharmony" ?

How is it even remotely relevant to what I’m saying?

 

[truthfollower]

Saudis are becoming more and more liberal good

 

[jamahir]

And when Modi brings an Anti-Triple Talaaq law to save Muslim women from this malpractice, he still remains an Anti-muslim islamophobe.

Yes, you are right. The correct word is "malpractice".

So, was Modi bringing some progressive law which did not have foundation in Islam or was he bringing a law whose correct version is already part of Islam ? If the latter why did he not acknowledge its Islamic existence ? This non-acknowledgement by him did not win him Muslim hearts and minds.

How is it even remotely relevant to what I’m saying?

So what did you mean by :

As if such things in Hinduism are taught to us in schools

Of course women can initiate divorce,but the point is at the end of the day husband will deside the out come.where as in TT wife has no say.

Not TT but ITT ( Instant Triple Talaq ) it is which does not have Islamic validity. ITT is a perversion.

At the end of the day the point would have been for legally enabling the suffering woman to claim her "Mahr" from her errant husband. I quote the Indian Christian woman I quoted in post# 24 :

One wonders why a reference to the Islamic law was not made either by the minister or other experts. Married Muslim women, we find, are often on a higher and more secure footing than their counterparts from other religions. In fact, as a Christian marrying a Muslim, I chose to marry under the Muslim personal law, even over the seemingly modern Special Marriage Act, 1954, to better secure my economic rights. My mehr was a house in my name and my nikahnama includes necessary clauses to safeguard my and my children’s rights. My husband’s family members were witness to this document, which is registered and enforceable by law.

 

[jamahir]

Secondly and this is the most important part...Indians need to shut the hell up about how Pakistanis define their identity bcuz it is none of ur business. We Pakistanis made that very clear when we separated...that u do not get to dictate us in any way shape or form. So kindly stay out of it.

There is no need for you to be so proud of that separation - The Partition / Two Nation Theory - because it was first proposed by the Hindutvadis. The Indian centrist politician Shashi Tharoor said this last year :

Speaking at the session 'Shashi on Shashi' with Micheal Dwyer on Day 2 of the Jaipur Literature Festival (JLF), Mr Tharoor claimed that the Hindutva movement started by Vinayak Damodar Savarkar categorically rejected the Constitution.

He said that for Savarkar, a Hindu was one for whom India was his fatherland and holy land. Muslims and Christians were not considered in this.

"Savarkar, Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar and Deen Dyal Upadhay rejected the constitution and in fact agreed with the Muslims that religion should determine nationhood. In the historical sense, the first advocate of the two-nation theory was actually Savarkar, who as the head of the Hindu Mahasabha called upon India to recognise Hindus and Muslims as part of two separate nations three years before the Pakistan Muslim League passed the Pakistan Resolution in Lahore in 1940," he said.

Mr Tharoor further said that according to them, the Constitution was full of imported ideas written in the wrong language - English.

"Another flaw they pointed out was that it assumes that the nation of India is a territory and it's (constitution) written for all the people on the territory. Nation is not a territory but its people and the people of India are only Hindus," he said.

 

[jamahir]

Saudis are becoming more and more liberal good

I will say that the moment they allow socialist / communist preachers to work in Saudia.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

Yes, you are right. The correct word is "malpractice".

So, was Modi bringing some progressive law which did not have foundation in Islam or was he bringing a law whose correct version is already part of Islam ? If the latter why did he not acknowledge its Islamic existence ? This non-acknowledgement by him did not win him Muslim hearts and minds.