Saudi Arabia detains 10 princes, dozens of former ministers

[Taimoor Khan]

How does this effect the upcoming Aramco shares sell? people removed were pro Americana? I think Al waleed was. He got business in West.

 

[Falcon29]

@Sharif al-Hijaz @Hyperion @snow lake

Relax guys, it shouldn't be this difficult to have a civil discussion. Sharif loves his country and there are some trolls looking for any opportunity to criticize his country for things they won't bring up regarding others. At the same time his reaction as a little heated. All of you should relax and there is no need to call someone a Jew, he is an Saudi.

........
........

Now back to the point, I know many people have rushed to judgement but I'm reserving my judgement on MBS. People can speculate on whether this move is to tackle corruption or pave way for his succession. I personally think it's about efficiency, some of those indicted have responsibility in Jeddah natural disaster relief and didn't equip the city well for floods that took peoples lives. Also costs money, and corruption costs money where it could be used to fund projects. Although the national guard thing, could be about making sure head of national guard doesn't interfere with succession, but I can't connect the dots. I'm not a Saudi so I wouldn't know what the purpose of that is there. It appears that Salman and MBS are trying to catch up with the region to fill in void Abdullah left with his passive approach. I can't judge what MBS intentions are for the region, I don't know him personally or know much about his personal life. For his people he seems like he wants the best for them.

PS: Does MBS have a speaking disorder or something? He seems to have a stutter issue.

 

[The SC]

How does this effect the upcoming Aramco shares sell? people removed were pro Americana? I think Al waleed was. He got business in West.

It won't be affected much.. it might go on or might be delayed, since there is talk about the IPO to be done in the Saudi financial market instead of abroad (While Trump is pushing very hard for it to be done in the NYSE).. The corruption money recovered will be much more than the IPO itself.. so, let's wait and see..

 

[HAIDER]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/al-waleed-saudi-billionaire-prince-slammed-trump-151956944.html
Al-Waleed: the Saudi billionaire prince who slammed Trump

may be paying the price of his comments.

 

[Pakistani E]

Gah, why do some guys always have to make it about Pakistan vs whoever the thread is about? I was rather interested while reading the news posted by guys who are more aware of the situation than the random posts who came out to vent frustration and derail the thread.

Stick to the topic.

 

[Super Falcon]

The sole purpose to do this cleansing just to make king Salman and his son untouchables no one powerful enough in family to challenge their dominance

 

[The SC]

Saudi Information Minister Awad Al-Awad: We will recover the looted funds to benefit the development projects..

 

[livingdead]

and this is why kids we got democracy.... its imperfect but not prone to such weird sh*t...
even if his intention is right and you support the move, you should be very concerned about the way this happened, if you are a saudi.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

and this is why kids we got democracy.... its imperfect but not prone to such weird sh*t...
even if his intention is right and you support the move, you should be very concerned about the way this happened, if you are a saudi.

Yes, Saudi Arabians should really be concerned that corrupt princes, officials and ministers are arrested or dismissed due to a corruption probe. Such a bad thing. Especially when only ordinary hard-working people are targeted and not some of the most influential people in KSA, the region and arguably the world, with a long track-record of questionable businesses, shady deals, incompetence (2009 Jeddah floods), secret arms deals etc.

Such a horrible thing to occur. I am deeply worried as I might be next. In fact all the recent promising reforms on almost all fronts in KSA are in general a very horrible thing. People are deeply concerned about this and not happy at all. Irony might have been used here.

 

[livingdead]

Yes, Saudi Arabians should really be concerned that corrupt princes, officials and ministers are arrested or dismissed due to a corruption probe. Such a bad thing. Especially when only ordinary hard-working people are targeted and not some of the most influential people in KSA, the region and arguably the world, with a long track-record of questionable businesses, shady deals, incompetence (2009 Jeddah floods), secret arms deals etc.

Such a horrible thing to occur. I am deeply worried as I might be next. In fact all the recent promising reforms on almost all fronts in KSA are in general a very horrible thing. People are deeply concerned about this and not happy at all. Irony might have been used here.

poor attempt at sarcasm.. I have nothing against reform, or fight against corruption... but the way it is done is dangerous.. tomorrow the same person after amassing too much power might behave like saddam...

to repeat, just because you like his reforming agenda does not mean you should not be concerned about tomorrow, very often absolute dictators start their career with popular moves(and quite possibly noble intentions).

 

[The SC]

The relationship between what is happening with Vision 2030 and economic growth is a life or death relationship. Corruption has a strong ability to steal the wealth of the nation and impoverish its people. The more corrupt the country, the lower its economic growth rate. The impact of corruption on the citizen and investor can be seen in two points:

1 - High prices .. A trader who pays a bribe will pass that cost (bribery) to consumers (property).
2 - The decline in foreign direct investment and the accompanying decline in GDP and inflation (the Saudi 2030 vision depends mainly on this point).

The best example of these shortcomings to the economy is Pakistan, where according to most Pakistani brothers on this Forum, corruption is the main cause of the low growth rates during the last few decades..
No one has ever said that purging Sharif was a coup..in reality combatting corruption is a necessity for every country with a will to advance in the right direction..Pakistan has shown that it wants to advance and Saudi Arabia is showing its will as well.. China is leading in this field (going as far as the death penalty for corrupt officials and billionaire businessmen), and the results or impacts on the economy have been astonishingly positive..

Yes, Saudi Arabians should really be concerned that corrupt princes, officials and ministers are arrested or dismissed due to a corruption probe. Such a bad thing. Especially when only ordinary hard-working people are targeted and not some of the most influential people in KSA, the region and arguably the world, with a long track-record of questionable businesses, shady deals, incompetence (2009 Jeddah floods), secret arms deals etc.

Such a horrible thing to occur. I am deeply worried as I might be next. In fact all the recent promising reforms on almost all fronts in KSA are in general a very horrible thing. People are deeply concerned about this and not happy at all. Irony might have been used here.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

poor attempt at sarcasm.. I have nothing against reform, or fight against corruption... but the way it is done is dangerous.. tomorrow the same person after amassing too much power might behave like saddam...

to repeat, just because you like his reforming agenda does not mean you should not be concerned about tomorrow, very often absolute dictators start their career with popular moves(and quite possibly noble intentions).

It is sarcasm because you are commenting from a position of ignorance. From a uniformed position and making inaccurate conclusions when there is no reason for that.

By all accounts this is a very positive thing unless you are a proponent of large-scale corruption, neglect and lack of accountancy.

I have to laugh. Did I see that correctly? You are simply comparing MbS with Saddam Hussein. Ok bye.

The relationship between what is happening with Vision 2030 and economic growth is a life or death relationship. Corruption has a strong ability to steal the wealth of the nation and impoverish its people. The more corrupt the country, the lower its economic growth rate. The impact of corruption on the citizen and investor can be seen in two points:

1 - High prices .. A trader who pays a bribe will pass that cost (bribery) to consumers (property).
2 - The decline in foreign direct investment and the accompanying decline in GDP and inflation (the Saudi 2030 vision depends mainly on this point).

The best example of these shortcomings to the economy is Pakistan, where according to most Pakistani brothers on this Forum, corruption is the main cause of the low growth rates during the last few decades..
No one has ever said that purging Sharif was a coup..in reality combatting corruption is a necessity for every country with a will to advance in the right direction..Pakistan has shown that it wants to advance and Saudi Arabia is showing it will as well.. China is leading in this field (going as far as the death penalty for corrupt officials and billionaire businessmen), and the results or impacts on the economy have been astonishingly positive..


View attachment 435181

Corruption levels in KSA are actually not that big compared to standards in the Middle East, the Muslim world and the developing world in general. It's not a general problem but rather a problem among certain power circles. Reforms of the past and more recent ones have made life much more difficult for even the power circles.

KSA was ranked 62 worldwide (out of 176 countries listed) according to Transparency International in 2016. In 2015 KSA's position was 52. Not sure what caused this but it is good that MbS is addressing the problem nevertheless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index





Hopefully the position improves next year.

 

[livingdead]

It is sarcasm because you are commenting from a position of ignorance. From a uniformed position and making inaccurate conclusions when there is no reason for that.

By all accounts this is a very positive thing unless you are a proponent of large-scale corruption, neglect and lack of accountancy.

I have to laugh. Did I see that correctly? You are simply comparing MbS with Saddam Hussein. Ok bye.

my info comes from international news sources, like bbc, there was a purge to consolidate power, you can call it anti corruption drive, or may be it is both?
we dont know if it is a positive thing or not, yet. Anyway my point also was towards people who believe that democratic process is slow and weak and prone to corruption and look towards authoritarian regimes with envy.
I did not compare MS with Saddam... you are an expert in changing words it seems.

Instead of acting like an unpaid shill for the regime that is currently in power, try to understand the wider issue. If you think your life is at risk, then don't, do carry on with your posts. cheers.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

my info comes from international news sources, like bbc, there was a purge to consolidate power, you can call it anti corruption drive, or may be it is both?
we dont know if it is a positive thing or not, yet. Anyway my point was towards people who believe that democratic process is slow and weak and prone to corruption.
I did not compare MS with Saddam... you are an expert in changing words it seems.

Instead of acting as an unpaid shill for the regime that is currently in power, try to understand the wider issue. If you think your life is at risk, then don't, do carry on with your posts. cheers.

BBC knows what exactly about corruption in KSA? BBC has now become the holy grail of journalism? The same BBC that has reported inaccurate news 1000s of times? What are BBC's sources in KSA? I am yet to see them write a single article about corruption in KSA in the past.

Frank Gardener (I like him and I have even met him in person) is a great guy but he is no expert about KSA nor does he live in KSA or have many inside sources. He is often the guy that is interviewed by the mighty BBC. Is that supposed to mean something?

A few days ago the BBC had some former Somali (I am sure that she is a nice lady) lady that lived in KSA 10 years ago to comment on whether reforms in KSA were genuine or not. Are you pfucking kidding me? A nobody basically that lived in KSA ages ago is now going to judge that. What are her credentials exactly to even make such a judgement? Give me a break.

Just look at the moronic title. "The next Dubai" as if that is the goal of KSA. Just dumb, dumber and dumbest in action whoever made this thread title or initiated the discussion. Just shocking how poor, biased, one-sided, lacking and non-detailed coverage of affairs in KSA are by large.

It's the easy way out. MbS (actually it is King Salman that has the final say but whatever) suddenly woke up after 2 years and decided to jail random people and just those people.

Various corruption scandals, secret arms deals, Mutaib trying to turn the National Guard into his own personal guard, the scandals and neglect involving the 2009 Jeddah Floods, the scandals involving Saudi BinLadin Group etc. are all made up.

Why mention Saddam Hussein then when MbS is a world apart as well as KSA of 2017 and Iraq of the late 1970's or even 1990's? It's just stupid. No other word for it.

I am 1000 times more well-informed than you are and the last thing I am is a blind sheep. I have criticized those individuals that have been apprehended or dismissed here and elsewhere many times. As well as the government whenever I have disagreed with them. This is something that most people in KSA do. Saudi Arabians are not blind robots or disconnected from the world. Rather the opposite, Saudi Arabians are some of the most connected people to the outside world (Saudi Arabians have the highest use of social media in the world per capita), are well-travelled, generally very well-off and well-educated. This is not Afghanistan with all due respect.

Even if it was a consolation of power I support it 100%. Do you know why? Because what MbS has done so far and kickstarted (Saudi Vision 2030 etc.) is 1000 trillion times more important than the personal wishes and "immunity" of high-ranking officials and princes who think that they are above the law and think that they can piss the wealth of the country and people away or "playing" their own games in a absolutely crucial time for KSA and its people.

So no, democracy has nothing to do with this. A corruption probe is a corruption probe. They will be judged based on the evidence and I will await what will happen. As of now most people are happy because they know that most of those individuals are involved in corruption. It's just how it is.

Speaking about widening your horizon or looking at the bigger picture.

 

[The SC]

my info comes from international news sources, like bbc, there was a purge to consolidate power, you can call it anti corruption drive, or may be it is both?
we dont know if it is a positive thing or not, yet. Anyway my point also was towards people who believe that democratic process is slow and weak and prone to corruption and look towards authoritarian regimes with envy.
I did not compare MS with Saddam... you are an expert in changing words it seems.

Instead of acting like an unpaid shill for the regime that is currently in power, try to understand the wider issue. If you think your life is at risk, then don't, do carry on with your posts. cheers.

The BBC said the purge was done before this, it was done along the purge of some religious authorities, so do not mix things up.. this is a different purge that concerns corruption only.. As one can see from different events in Saudi Arabia, it never lowers itself to twisted moves to get rid of opponents to its best line of policies, it has always based the dismissal of princes or other influential people on publicly removing them.. clear and simple..

BBC knows what exactly about corruption in KSA? BBC has now become the holy grail of journalism? The same BBC that has reported inaccurate news 1000s of times? What are BBC's sources in KSA? I am yet to see them write a single article about corruption in KSA in the past.

Frank Gardener (I like him and I have even met him in person) is a great guy but he is no expert about KSA nor does he live in KSA or have many inside sources. He is often the guy that is interviewed by the mighty BBC. Is that supposed to mean something?

A few days ago the BBC had some former Somali (I am sure that she is a nice lady) lady that lived in KSA 10 years ago to comment on whether reforms in KSA were genuine or not. Are you pfucking kidding me? A nobody basically that lived in KSA ages ago is now going to judge that. What are her credentials exactly to even make such a judgement? Give me a break.

Just look at the moronic title. "The next Dubai" as if that is the goal of KSA. Just dumb, dumber and dumbest in action whoever made this thread title or initiated the discussion. Just shocking how poor, biased, one-sided, lacking and non-detailed coverage of affairs in KSA are by large.

It's the easy way out. MbS (actually it is King Salman that has the final say but whatever) suddenly woke up after 2 years and decided to jail random people and just those people.

Various corruption scandals, secret arms deals, Mutaib trying to turn the National Guard into his own personal guard, the scandals and neglect involving the 2009 Jeddah Floods, the scandals involving Saudi BinLadin Group etc. are all made up.

Why mention Saddam Hussein then when MbS is a world apart as well as KSA of 2017 and Iraq of the late 1970's or even 1990's? It's just stupid. No other word for it.

I am 1000 times more well-informed than you are and the last thing I am is a blind sheep. I have criticized those individuals that have been apprehended or dismissed here and elsewhere many times. As well as the government whenever I have disagreed with them. This is something that most people in KSA do. Saudi Arabians are not blind robots or disconnected from the world. Rather the opposite, Saudi Arabians are some of the most connected people to the outside world (Saudi Arabians have the highest use of social media in the world per capita), are well-travelled, generally very well-off and well-educated. This is not Afghanistan with all due respect.

Even if it was a consolation of power I support it 100%. Do you know why? Because what MbS has done so far and kickstarted (Saudi Vision 2030 etc.) is 1000 trillion times more important than the personal wishes and "immunity" of high-ranking officials and princes who think that they are above the law and think that they can piss the wealth of the country and people away or "playing" their own games in a absolutely crucial time for KSA and its people.

So no, democracy has nothing to do with this. A corruption probe is a corruption probe. They will be judged based on the evidence and I will await what will happen. As of now most people are happy because they know that most of those individuals are involved in corruption. It's just how it is.

Speaking about widening your horizon or looking at the bigger picture.

Urgent:
Sources of "Saudi News": The involvement of a number of lawyers in cases of financial and administrative corruption with a number of officials arrested.

This only means that the ones arrested so far are just the tip of the iceberg..



Badr al-Asaker, the director of the Crown Prince's special office, described the night of the new anti-corruption committee as "a historic and black night for the corrupts."

"This historic night will accelerate the pace of reform in the country," Al-Assaker said in a tweet through his official account on the social networking website Twitter, Sunday (November 5, 2017).

Al-Asaker re-published a video of the crown prince, in which he said: "No one involved in corruption will escape justice."

Al-Assaker participated in the arrest of 11 Pinces, as well as 38 ministers and deputies, some of whom hold current positions, on the ground of investigations into corruption cases.

The list of charges against the detainees, include charges of corruption, money laundering, embezzlement, fake transactions, manipulation of economic project papers, bribes for contracts and illegal transactions.