cloud4000
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Saudis are buying it to deny Iran the S-400s
Possibly. Knowing the Russians, they’ll sell it to anyone with the money.
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Saudis are buying it to deny Iran the S-400s
Types of targets that the S-400 system can destroy: See bellow..the second image..
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Ankara: Turkey may cancel the purchase of the "S-400" in the event that Russia does not agree on the joint production of the system
https://arabic.rt.com/world/903376-أنقرة-تركيا-قد-تلغي-صفقة-شراء-s-400-في-حال-عدم-موافقة-روسيا-على-الإنتاج-المشترك-للمنظومة/
According to the news, the problem might reside in the manufacturing aspect of the deal, since Turkey wants 2 systems off the shelf as quickly as possible and wants to manufacture the other 2 systems in Turkey jointly with Russia.. discussions are still going on..Russian spokeman Dmitry Peskov, Production technology of S-400 missiles to be transfered for Turkey is being discussed by countries' experts.
http://www.aksam.com.tr/dunya/kreml...tim-konusunda-prensipte-anlastik/haber-667681
Turkey is building own long altitude SAM system so signed a tech assistance agteement with EuroSAM over Aster-30 missiles as well. The ToT to be received via Russia for S-400 would be benefical to create one of the most effective national Long altitude SAM system thanks to Turkish/European and Russian combined missile tech input.
Prima Facie, this is what it seems, but is not the case.Saudis are buying it to deny Iran the S-400s
The Blackbird was not a fighter, it was a strategic reconnaissance plane..
Saudi PAC3 is deployed.
And just like that, Saudi has closed the gap in ADS system production.Saudi Arabia has four basic ToT:
1 - The sustainability and durability of the system and this includes the manufacture of parts for the system + manufacturing the system's ammunition
2 - The technical knowledge of the maintenance of the system, with maintenance contracts allowing KSA to have the capabilities of radar maintenance, missile maintenance and computer system, etc...
3 - The ability to upgrade and develop the system in the future as well as its components like the radar, optical or missiles. Similar to the Patriot Pak 2 and Pak 3 development scheme to newer versions, because it wants the S-400 to serve for 20 or more years.
4 - The introduction of Saudi components like electronic and communication devices
The Russian would not oppose such demands, that is why they have approved them in the general outlines showing that they don't have a problem with these requirements in general terms. But asked to sit down now to discuss the minute details of What kind of maintenance do you want? What kind of spare parts? and what type of development?
Saudi Arabia wants 4-8 batteries of the S-400 system..It does not want a factory to produce the S-400 but wants a factory to produce spare parts and a factory for the ammunition for S-400 systems, maintenance facilities and maintenance capabilities, to attain the Saudi goal of system sustainability..
There are many stories to the downing of the F-117 in Serbia.. I suggest you find the Story told by the Serbian commander who downed it..
I know these are the high tech US stealth fighters and bomber.. but Anti-stealth radar technologies have evolved tremendously also.. read about the L-band radars.. it will give you an idea..
And it wasn't stealthy either, at least by today's standards.
Iran will def not be pleased, but Iran might also know that it will take Saudis years to master and use these these systems very well.And some missiles still get through. Houthis have used missiles successfully AND unsuccessfully against KSA. Its very expensive too! KSA's military has shown from the Yemen war that she can pack a punch(with help from many others as we all know)but can it get a win? Saudis will probably say they are more concerned about the sunnis in Syria(and Iraq), which is fair enough.but outsting Assad isnt realistically possible for them and they know that. Russia is in their "corner",just like China is, and just like India is trying to be also. These world powers gain in multiple ways from military sales "across the board"..so no regional power gets enough of an upper hand on any foe that they soon consider military action a good option against that party. This sale is also significant because its Russia solid entry into a NEW, good market. When will actual deliveries happen? I read Russia saying she will deliver the batteries "soon". Lol. Saudis might also need MORE and more expensive weapons, in order to compensate for other perceived/real insecurities/disadvantages. Does Saudis REALLY have ALL this money to spend on weapons? i heard about the MBS plan for new economy by 2030 or something, but where's the money for that? i heard some salaries were not being paid on time for some workers recently there. why slow money now for those workers? Even ARAMCO IPO launch is apparently delayed. Oil is being seen more bearishly in general.But IMO it will still be relevant for a while. What about ground forces and naval forces VS BM attack that needs THAAD? You;re so busy "protecting" your national skies but are you able and ready to stop a sneaky land invasion?
North Korea has developed nuclear weapons? Well dont you realize they also had to get parts and components for what they have now from China? China is an advanced country IMO as of today,so that nuclear tech they have or are giving NK is not that old IMO. How many coountries have actual mastery of running nuclear facilities? If its really only old technology how come only few countries have it then? why not "everyone"?
@The SC @Bubblegum Crisis
An interesting discussion to witness and we will have to see in theory if such an opportunity ever arrises.
What is unquestionable is the fact that the combination of existing systems (themselves very capable) and now THAAD and S-400 is a pretty damn impressive combination. This is the most important thing.
$ 30 Billion for THAAD, the S-400, Sophisticated space Ballistic Missile detection satellites and modernization of the PAK-3 system.. Yes it is very expensive.. but protecting the Haramain is priceless..Yes, this will calm many people - almost everyone - who would ‘try to play the adventurers’ - because it will cost very very very expensive - .
Our enemies of the Middle East and the West.
...
youve said this b4 but honestly, what muslim country will or wants to attack the most important muslim sites in Saudi in the first place? makes no sense. Iran being muslim and educated would never rain rockets on important islamic places in Saudi Arabia. Besides, that would also help no military objective(if conflict has already broken out)... but protecting the Haramain is priceless..
yea yea...they'll talk, and discuss, and approve. when will actual working trucks and missiles arrive? US will prolly sell MORE THAAD b4 or newest PACs before those S400s arrive.Kremlin: Moscow and Riyadh soon sign the S-400 missile system deal
In response to a question from Interfax about the date of signing, Kojin said on Friday:
"As soon as possible, we are in the process of holding discussions and obtaining the necessary approvals."
https://ar.rt.com/jdn1
KSA is the Haramain land, not talking about Muslim countries here, apart from some Iranian statements about destroying KSA safe Al Haramain! There is Usrael too who has violated KSA's air space on some occasions before, but mainly because it has BM with "apparently" nuclear warheads. there are also other threats, the whole area is a hot spot..so better be proactive and prepare for the worst.. like the saying goes: " If you want peace, you should prepare for war"..youve said this b4 but honestly, what muslim country will or wants to attack the most important muslim sites in Saudi in the first place? makes no sense. Iran being muslim and educated would never rain rockets on important islamic places in Saudi Arabia. Besides, that would also help no military objective(if conflict has already broken out).
Honestly, i am calling this bluff. I believe IF Saudis get the S400 i bet its in nothing less than 3 or 4 years, when it willbe not so cutting edge. Egypt Turkey KSA all wanted/signed deals for S400s, and they all hold large amts of western military equipment. Yet none has gotten it yet, and i bet most of them will not get it on time IF they get it.
yea yea...they'll talk, and discuss, and approve. when will actual working trucks and missiles arrive? US will prolly sell MORE THAAD b4 or newest PACs before those S400s arrive.