Saudi Arabia Announces "Vision 2030"

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

@DESERT FIGHTER

You did not get the point did you? Baloch people do not rule a separate independent nation called Baluchistan which is what the nationalists among you want. Hence there is no Baloch nation state which was solely my point. That's a fact.

Yes, and Arabs founded 3 of the 11 largest empires in human history (more than any other ethnic group in the top 15) and have ruled countless of caliphates, kingdoms, sultanates, emirates, sheikdoms, imamates etc. on 3 continents.

Pakistan was created in 1947 and ruled by the British for longer (British India) than any Arab country. During the time of the Ottoman Caliphate (not talking about the 1000 years before where Arabs (Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid ruled the Caliphate) half of the Arab world was sovereign. From sovereign Moroccan kingdoms in the west to Oman in the East. In fact the Omani Sultanate owned this stretch of land quite recently.





Gwadar for instance was sold to Pakistan by the Omani Sultan as late as 1958...

The reason why most of the Arab world came under British and French influence (not all, most of Arabia remained independent, for instance KSA was never a Western colony), is because of pure geography as the Arab world is a direct neighbor of Europe. Besides the British/French presence was relatively short. No more than a few decades. The longest was actually Algeria which was under French influence for 130 years but the French effectively only controlled the North (not the countryside) and main cities.

I already told you that Hijazis are Arab people (of course Hijaz is also a diverse region due to Hajj, Umrah, trade, geography and historical reasons) and not a separate ethnicity like Baloch. Arabs, as I wrote, have over 20 sovereign states (more than any other ethnicity) while Baloch people do not have their sovereign state but are part of 2 states (Pakistan and Iran). Parts of Afghanistan too.

There are almost as many Arabs in Iran as Baloch but Arabs do not have a state in Iran. Similarly there are Arabs in Afghanistan (the Afghan national anthem even acknowledges that) but they do not have their own state either. There are some 30 million people of Arab origin in Latin America but Arabs do not have any sovereign states there. I could mention many examples all over the world.

Anyway let us return to the topic and if you believe that I have a problem with the 8-10 million Baloch people you are mistaken but I have always sensed a somewhat anti-Arab attitude from your part. Anyway I do not know what you really believe as I do not know you.

@Falcon29 here we have a supposed Kuwaiti national who is half Baloch and half English who was probably born in Kuwait, lives there etc. yet the hatred for Arabs is obvious. Of course such people should be deported back to their ancestral lands if they hate Arabs so much. Imagine a citizen of non-native Pakistani origin living in Pakistan but badmouthing Pakistanis? I wonder how many here would tolerate it? And then she wonders why she got exposed when her entire purpose here is to troll Arabs as you yourself noticed on that Iranian Mullah forum and which her posts here confirm as well. She/he (whatever she is) of cause tried to hide that before the exposure, lol. What a tool but I won't waste my time on her anymore. Let her troll on some Pakistani forum, facts won't change due to that. She would be absolutely ridiculed on an Arab forum and rightly so. A great "representative" of Kuwait.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

@Falcon29 here we have a supposed Kuwaiti national who is half Baloch and half English who was probably born in Kuwait, lives there etc. yet the hatred for Arabs is obvious. Of course such people should be deported back to their ancestral lands if they hate Arabs so much. Imagine a citizen of non-native Pakistani origin living in Pakistan but badmouthing Pakistanis? I wonder how many here would tolerate it? And then she wonders why she got exposed when her entire premise here is to troll Arabs as you yourself noticed on that Iranian Mullah forum and which her posts here confirm as well. She/he (whatever she is) of cause tried to hide that before the exposure, lol. What a tool but I won't waste my time on her anymore. Let her troll on some Pakistani forum, facts won't change due to that.

So you want an administrator to clean up your own mess after you derailed your own thread by posting off-topic comments about my ethnicity, and yet you still can't resist posting more rubbish. Unbelievable.

Try to stay on topic. I know it's hard for sockpuppets such as yourself to do that, but at least try.

 

[Falcon29]

@Bilad al-Haramayn

It's not a girl bro, I highly doubt it, lol.

If her cause/purpose in life is to demean Saudi Arabia, then that's sad. Anyway, the person sounds pretty frustrated, I think you know why, so let's cut it some slack.

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

@Bilad al-Haramayn

It's not a girl bro, I highly doubt it, lol.

If her cause/purpose in life is to demean Saudi Arabia, then that's sad. Anyway, the person sounds pretty frustrated, I think you know why, so let's cut it some slack.

I have 3 sisters. She definitely has the stubbornness of a woman in the sense that she seems very eager to have the last word. Anyway I am a gentleman in real life so if I ever meet here somewhere in Kuwait City I would invite her out for coffee but since I am an Arab she might decline, you know, lol.

Just take a look at her posts so far. 95% of them are about KSA. So far she has written zero about her supposed homeland. Anyway I will let (probably Arab forename) al-Balochi alone and hopefully we can have some constructive discussions in the future the day she leaves her strong bias or KSA/Arab obsession at home or at least gives it some rest. When you mentioned her initially I took a look at that Iranian Mullah forum and damn she has been consistent in her Arab-bashing. I will give her that. Maybe she has an "evil" Arab boss at her hospital in Kuwait City? After all Kuwait has regressed a lot in recent decades, including the health care system, I hear form my Kuwaiti friends.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

I have 3 sisters. She definitely has the stubbornness of a woman in the sense that she seems very eager to have the last word. Anyway I am a gentleman in real life so if I ever meet here somewhere in Kuwait City I would invite her out for coffee but since I am an Arab she might decline, you know, lol.

Just take a look at her posts so far. 95% of them are about KSA. So far she has written zero about her supposed homeland. Anyway I will let (probably Arab forename) al-Balochi alone and hopefully we can have some constructive discussions in the future the day she leaves her strong bias or KSA/Arab obsession at home or at least gives it some rest. When you mentioned her initially I took a look at that Iranian Mullah forum and damn she has been consistent in her Arab-bashing. I will give her that. Maybe she has an "evil" Arab boss at her hospital in Kuwait City? After all Kuwait has regressed a lot in recent decades, including the health care system, I hear form my Kuwaiti friends.

Stop trolling, al-Hasani. And as for Falcon29, I feel sorry for the fact that he stalks members on other forums.

By the way, al-Hasani, if you ever come to Kuwait, I'll make sure you get locked up in jail. Be warned.

So are you ever going to get back to discussing your crumbling economy, or are you more interested in other members' ethnicities/identities?

You didn't change at all. Still the same ethnicity-obsessed person that you were on that other forum lol.

 

[Falcon29]

I have 3 sisters. She definitely has the stubbornness of a woman in the sense that she seems very eager to have the last word. Anyway I am a gentleman in real life so if I ever meet here somewhere in Kuwait City I would invite her out for coffee but since I am an Arab she might decline, you know, lol.

Just take a look at her posts so far. 95% of them are about KSA. So far she has written zero about her supposed homeland. Anyway I will let (probably Arab forename) al-Balochi alone and hopefully we can have some constructive discussions in the future the day she leaves her strong bias or KSA/Arab obsession at home or at least gives it some rest. When you mentioned her initially I took a look at that Iranian Mullah forum and damn she has been consistent in her Arab-bashing. I will give her that. Maybe she has an "evil" Arab boss at her hospital in Kuwait City? After all Kuwait has regressed a lot in recent decades, including the health care system, I hear form my Kuwaiti friends.

لازم ثبتلنا انها عربية عالخاص

That's what I figured, some Arab must have been wronged her in a way. Nothing we can't fix

Stop trolling, al-Hasani. And as for Falcon29, I feel sorry for the fact that he stalks members on other forums.

By the way, al-Hasani, if you ever come to Kuwait, I'll make sure you get locked up in jail. Be warned.

So are you ever going to get back to discussing your crumbling economy, or are you more interested in other members' ethnicities/identities?

You didn't change at all. Still the same ethnicity-obsessed person that you were on that other forum lol.

انتي منا ونحن منك ، إفتخري في أصلك العربي

His account password was lost, the mods are well awake of this account, so not sure why you keep bringing that up, lol.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

لازم ثبتلنا انها عربية عالخاص

That's what I figured, some Arab must have been wronged her in a way. Nothing we can't fix



انتي منا ونحن منك ، إفتخري في أصلك العربي

Aw, that's so sweet of you, but I'm 3ajmiya. Sorry.

At least you're decent enough to say that I'm one of you.

Not a single Iranian member on IMF ever told me that.

 

[Falcon29]

Aw, that's so sweet of you, but I'm 3ajmiya. Sorry.

3ajmiya ستلدي أطفال عرب

Once you come to the Arab world, live like an Arab, and identify as an Arab, you become one.

Okay, that's it, I promise I'm done.

Anyway, you will get along with Hasani, he's a magnificent individual that's passionate over his heritage and taught me things I never knew.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

Awww I had no idea you were that sweet lol.

Much better than anything any IMF member has ever told me lol.

 

[Falcon29]

@Bilad al-Haramayn

Apologize for derailing the thread, but now we got everything straightened out between the two of you.

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

I wrote a long post but I "lost" it. Never mind.

لازم ثبتلنا انها عربية عالخاص

That's what I figured, some Arab must have been wronged her in a way. Nothing we can't fix

انا لست جاسوسا

@Kuwaiti Girl

Honestly, how can you seriously dislike Arabs if you live in an Arab state and when you are surrounded by Arabs and likely have been all of your life? Please tell me, that your dislike is aimed at certain Arab regimes (we all have such sentiments) rather than all Arab people and nationalities? Also, you are completely mistaken if you think that I am a racist (lol) or that I have a problem with Iranian Arabs, Persians, Lurs or Baloch people. I only have a problem with those of them who hate/dislike Arabs. I guess this is a quite natural reaction, don't you think? Other than that I have nothing against them just like I have nothing against Afro-Arabs or all the other numerous ethnic groups that inhabit KSA, GCC, Arabia and the Arab world. If you bothered to read some of my posts you would notice that I recently talked about the close ethnic, cultural and historical relations between Iran and Arabia, mainly Eastern Arabia.

The only reason why your ethnicity became relevant, I have already explained in post 77. To tell you honestly I have little respect for people who are citizens of county x or y (that they have no ancestral ties to) who welcomed their families and gave them better opportunities moreover, yet those same people appear to hate their country of birth and the people of their country of birth. I struggle to accept such behavior especially as those same persons are free to return to their ancestral lands if they do not like the smell in the bakery.

Such people are usually called traitors by many observers. I know this might sound harsh but its a legitimate point.

I have the exact same view of Arabs, Muslims, migrants and their offspring as a whole who settle in foreign lands but dislike that land and its native people. I am hardly alone in having such a view, in fact all sane people regardless of race, ethnicity, nationality should share that view.

Instead of having your current biased agenda you would do well if you informed people of Kuwait and made some threads about the country and its military so people here could become wiser. There are already very few Arab users here.

@Falcon29 Bro, do you watch NBA? I am about to watch Spurs-Thunders. If OKC wins they will win the series 4-2. I think that it will be a very exciting match up. I am very impressed by Stephen Curry as well.

 

[Falcon29]

@Bilad al-Haramayn

I expected the Spurs to sweep the floor, boy, was I in for a surprise.

It looks to be Warriors-Cavs for the finals, I'll side with the team that seems less arrogant, although they out perform each other in that department.

 

[Falcon29]

I started to watch ESPN First Take. I mean on Youtube. Do you know about it?

Every male in the US knows about it, I just haven't kept it up with it lately.

Molly Qerim is apparently half Albanian and half Arab. She is doing OK if you know what I mean.

I don't wanna know about your standards if you're touting that off as 'OK'.

So the stereotypes are true.

I also enjoy watching TNT and especially Shaq in action. That guy seems like an amazing character.

Yes, I thought that Spurs would win too (they can still do it) but I guess that Duncan and Ginobili have become too old while Aldridge has not been as good as the Spurs hoped.

As you know I am an old-time Lakers fan but they have been doing extremely poorly for years and now that Kobe has retired they will built a new successful team, hopefully.

Lakers need a whole revamping, the general attitude among the players is borderline unprofessional now. Who knows where that team is going. Spurs have a set of young players that are effective, they just can't keep up with OKC tempo, imo.

In other news, I am seriously thinking about relocating to the US for some time if good job opportunities in my field emerge. I enjoyed my time in the US as a student a lot. I wonder if Trump will get elected, would be hilarious to see how he would do.

Speaking about presidents, this is hilarious.

Try it out here, in the West, I'm moving out as soon as I graduate, love the weather out there. For sure, you probably have a lot more fun in the US. I'm assuming Saudi Arabia is pretty traditional, in terms of lifestyle? UAE, Kuwait and Bahrain, from what I hear, are pretty Western-like. Especially with the chick game thing, I saw it myself.

BTW do you know how I can embed Instagram videos and photos on PDF?

Don't think it works, along with twitter as well.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@DESERT FIGHTER

You did not get the point did you? Baloch people do not rule a separate independent nation called Baluchistan which is what the nationalists among you want. Hence there is no Baloch nation state which was solely my point. That's a fact.

Here is another .. Baluch live in multicultural democratic nations .. Baluch lands (Balochistan) themselves have multiple ethnicities (unlike British created Arab states.. Which are entirely homogenous). Baluch despite having small population (as compared to Arabs etc) have created states in the past ..

Yes, and Arabs founded 3 of the 11 largest empires in human history (more than any other ethnic group in the top 15) and have ruled countless of caliphates, kingdoms, sultanates, emirates, sheikdoms, imamates etc. on 3 continents.

Minus the caliphate which ones may they be? All modern Arab monarchies were created by the British.. Your own Saudi monarchs were tribal chiefs/nomads nothing more ..

Pakistan was created in 1947 and ruled by the British for longer (British India) than any Arab country.

Balochistan,KPK etc were ruled for less than 49 & remained at war with the British who had almost no settlements apart from few posts or garrisons that were always under attack .. As for Arabs .. There were plenty of Arab states that were colonies for more... Many recorded freedom just few decades back .. Egypt was under British rule from 1882-1954. Algeria 1830-1962,Morocco 1912-1956 and many more.

During the time of the Ottoman Caliphate (not talking about the 1000 years before where Arabs (Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid ruled the Caliphate) half of the Arab world was sovereign. From sovereign Moroccan kingdoms in the west to Oman in the East. In fact the Omani Sultanate owned this stretch of land quite recently.

Caliphates and their territories weren't found on Arab bravado rather than Islam.. People were loyal to the caliph or sneer al nomineen not al Arab..

Here is the map of Ottoman Empire;

Gwadar for instance was sold to Pakistan by the Omani Sultan as late as 1958...

Here is some history;

The region remained on the sidelines of historyfor a millennium until the Arab-Muslim army of Umar captured Makran in 643 CE and over the intervening (and nearly equivalent) amount of time the area was contested by various powers. This was then followed by almost two centuries of local rule by the various Baloch tribes. The city was visited by Ottoman Admiral Seydi Ali Reis in the 1550s and mentioned in his book Mirat ul Memalik (The Mirror of Countries), 1557.[10] According to Seydi Ali Reis, the inhabitants of Gwadar were Baloch and their chief was Malik Jelaleddin, son of Malik Dinar.

In the 15th century the Portuguese conquered many parts of India and Oman. They planned to proceed with annexation of the coastal area of Makran. They attacked Gwadar under the leadership of Vasco de Gama, but under the supervision of Commander Mir Ismaheel Baloch, the Portuguese were defeated by the Baloch. A few times the Portuguese looted and set the coastal villages on fire, but they failed to capture Gwadar. Cannons of the Portuguese army were found lying near the Central Jail of Gwadar, heirless. The grave of Mir Ismaheel Baloch is situated near the Mountain of Batal Gwadar, constructed by Mir Ismaheel Baloch himself during life. He died in 873 Hijri.[11]

In 1783, the Khan of Kalat Mir Noori Naseer Khan Baloch granted suzerainty over Gwadar to Taimur Sultan, the defeated ruler of Muscat.[12]When the sultan subsequently retook Muscat, he was to continue his rule in Gwadar by appointing a wali (or "governor"). This wali was then ordered to subjugate the nearby coastal town of Chah Bahar (now in Iran). The Gwadar fort was built during Omani rule, whilst telegraph lines were later extended into the town courtesy of the British. In the middle of the 18th century, Mir Noori Naseer Khan Balochcaptured Gwadar and its surrounding areas after defeating the Gichki Baloch tribe and included it in the Kalat Khanate. However, realizing that maintaining control of the area will be difficult without the support of the Gichkis, Mir Nasir entered into an agreement with the local Gichki Chief, which allowed the Gichkis to maintain administrative control of the area, in return for furnishing half the collected revenues to Kalat, this arrangement continued till 1783. When Saiad Sultan fell out with his brother, the ruler of Muscat, and asked for help, Mir Noori Naseer Khan handed over Gwadar, as part of his share of revenues, to Saiad Sultan for his maintenance with the understanding that the area be returned to Kalat, when Saiad Sultan acquires the throne. Saiad Sultan ascended to the throne of Muscat in 1797 but never returned Gwadar enclave to Kalat. The ensuing struggle between the heirs of the Sultan and Khan of Kalat, for possession of Gwadar, allowed the British to intervene. The British after extracting concessions from the Sultan for the use of the area facilitated Muscat to retain Gwadar. Later on, the British claimed that the area was permanently gifted to the Sultan by Mir Nasir, however, local accounts and the declassified documents of that time refute this claim.[13]

The reason why most of the Arab world came under British and French influence (not all, most of Arabia remained independent, for instance KSA was never a Western colony), is because of pure geography as the Arab world is a direct neighbor of Europe. Besides the British/French presence was relatively short. No more than a few decades. The longest was actually Algeria which was under French influence for 130 years but the French effectively only controlled the North (not the countryside) and main cities.

... Ok .... Because KSA was part of Ottoman Empire till they betrayed the Ottomans thanks to Lawrence of Arabia ...


I

already told you that Hijazis are Arab people (of course Hijaz is also a diverse region due to Hajj, Umrah, trade, geography and historical reasons) and not a separate ethnicity like Baloch. Arabs, as I wrote, have over 20 sovereign states (more than any other ethnicity) while Baloch people do not have their sovereign state but are part of 2 states (Pakistan and Iran). Parts of Afghanistan too.

Arabs don't belong to another stock do they? Meanwhile all of us Pashtun/Baluch etc are Iranic .. Pak being a multiethnic state whole Iran being an Iranic one ..

Iranic concept is similar like the Turkic one .. All the people belonging to the same ancestory .. And I would really like to know how hijaz is a diverse state (it's just a province of KSA).. ? Minus the Afro Arabs n Bedouins..

Also not all Arabs are one nation .. Had they been the case there wouldn't have been different histories of different states.. A hijazi can't claim Babylon now can he? Not a Saudi claim to be the ancestor of Hannibal (again not an Arab) and so on..

Similarly there are Arabs in Afghanistan (the Afghan national anthem even acknowledges that) but they do not have their own state either. There are some 30 million people of Arab origin in Latin America but Arabs do not have any sovereign states there. I could mention many examples all over the world.

And all those are assimilated people who have lost their culture n language.

 

[Indos]

So what happened ? Did anybody die lol.

No body dies, a group of Pakistani and a group of Aghani clashes in Puncak, Bogor, reported by national newspaper, but of course not a headline news he he