Saudi Arabia Announces "Vision 2030"

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

LOL, don't lecture me about Kuwait, al-Hasani.

You're definitely the Saudi troll I suspected you of being all along. I'd gladly invite the Iraqi members to this thread to verify it because they're familiar with your writing style and views as well.

You shouldn't have played this dirty game.

You could have acted like a civilized person and discussed your country's (collapsing) economy. Instead, however, you decided to turn this personal. Well, that's too bad. In any case, you're embarrassing yourself.

Half of the Kuwaitis are non-Arabs. And yes, inter-ethnic marriages are very uncommon due to social taboos and the tribal/primitive mentality of many people around here. I know this bothers you so much, just like it bothered you on the other forum. We've discussed this many times in the past. You still can't seem to wrap your head around this fact lol.

Now run along.

Why do you think that you have "found me out" when I have made no secret of my identity here? Unlike you who is half Baloch (a stateless people) and half English apparently, lol.

Being told about your identity and track on some Iranian Mullah forum by a user here does not equal getting personal and quite frankly I could not care less what an anti-Arab obsessed troll thinks in this regard. Your entire presence on this forum so far have been limited to obsessing about KSA and Arabs, it seems.

Look, there are 450 million Arabs worldwide. Nationals in Kuwait number between 1-1.5 million people. You do the math.

1/2 is once again your fantasy speaking to you. Show me empirical evidence of this. Just a single credible link. Yes, there have been plenty of intermarriages among lower and middle classes since a long time ago. This is common knowledge. Also why should it bother me that some 500.000 people (at most) are either of Iranian Arab, Lur, Persian or Baloch origin? Those people have adopted local culture, Arabic and mixed with locals. Unlike you I don't have anything against Persians, Lurs etc. but it seems that you have a problem with Arabs despite living in an Arab country.

KSA is a G-20 major economies member state, the GDP per capita (nominal) is one of the highest in the world, KSA is the largest surplus nation in the world with one of the largest reserves out there. The non-oil/gas sectors are also booming and KSA is expecting an economic growth of 3-4% this year. So yeah, the situation is absolutely horrible.

I would, if I were you, worry about the non-existing Baluchistan (nation state) and the immense poverty of the Baloch people in both Iran and Pakistan, rather than obsessing about KSA and Arabs.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

Why do you think that you have "found me out" when I have made no secret of my identity here? Unlike you who is half Baloch (a stateless people) and half English apparently, lol.

Being told about your identity and track on some Iranian Mullah forum by a user here does not equal getting personal and quite frankly I could not care less what an anti-Arab obsessed troll thinks in this regard. Your entire presence on this forum so far have been limited to obsessing about KSA and Arabs, it seems.

Look, there are 450 million Arabs worldwide. Nationals in Kuwait number between 1-1.5 million people. You do the math.

1/2 is once again your fantasy speaking to you. Show me empirical evidence of this. Just a single credible link. Yes, there have been plenty of intermarriages among lower and middle classes since a long time ago. This is common knowledge. Also why should it bother me that some 500.000 people (at most) are either of Iranian Arab, Lur, Persian or Baloch origin? Those people have adopted local culture, Arabic and mixed with locals. Unlike you I don't have anything against Persians, Lurs etc. but it seems that you have a problem with Arabs despite living in an Arab country.

KSA is a G-20 major economies member state, the GDP per capita (nominal) is one of the highest in the world, KSA is the largest surplus nation in the world with one of the largest reserves out there. The non-oil/gas sectors are also booming and KSA is expecting an economic growth of 3-4% this year. So yeah, the situation is absolutely horrible.

I would, if I were you, worry about the non-existing Baluchistan (nation state) and the immense poverty of the Baloch people in both Iran and Pakistan, rather than obsessing about KSA and Arabs.

Whatever you say, al-Hasani.

By the way, how many sockpuppet accounts must you make on this forum and on the other forum that we're members of? Why can't you stick with just one account?

I'm ethnically half Balochi, half English. So what? Don't be jelly. I know you don't like the fact that there are many non-Arab citizens in Kuwait and other GCC states LOL.

And yes, for the umpteenth time, half of the Kuwaiti people are non-Arabs, most of whom are Persian. And yes, once again, inter-ethnic marriages are very uncommon in Kuwait and in all other GCC countries for that matter. That's just the way it is.

Now are you going to get back to discussing your country's crumbling economy, or are you still obsessed about ethnicity, just as you were on the other forum?

Are you ever going to change, al-Hasani? Doesn't look like you will lol.

------------------------------

Anyway, it looks like Saudi Arabia's 2030 vision has even made its way to school examination papers ROFL:

 

[Falcon29]

@Bilad al-Haramayn

His/her username was 'TurkoPersian' elsewhere, I have no idea why. I never heard that the person was half Balochi/English. Probably isn't though, most likely full Asian.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

Saudi Arabia's Vision 2030 plan to transform its economy might be all 'smoke and mirrors'

Saudi Arabia appears committed to its recently-announced long-term economic plan, dubbed Vision 2030, which aims to remove the country’s economic dependence on oil exports within the next several decades. The removal of Ali al-Naimi, who for twenty-five years acted as the Kingdom’s oil minister and engineered the production surge guiding Saudi policy since November 2014, is a further indication of the government’s determination to make a major economic course correction.

The question is, can they do it? Oil covers 70 percent of government revenue, while the oil industry is a major employer for the Saudi workforce. The immediate reaction to the plan, announced on April 25 by Crown Prince Muhammed bin Salman, was guarded optimism. Recently there has been much more skepticism, with some doubting how Saudi Arabia could accomplish all that it has planned for itself.

Prince Salman, who at 30 is both a powerful member of the royal family and a standard-bearer for a new generation of Saudi leaders, emphasized in his announcement that Saudi Arabia would begin its transition to an “oil-less” economy through an IPO of Saudi Aramco, the state-owned oil company. A 5 percent IPO will take place in 2017, and due to the size of Aramco will take place on the London, New York and Hong Kong markets simultaneously. The IPO is a clear sign that Saudi Arabia, perhaps the nation most associated with oil wealth and extravagance, has realized amidst the current energy glut that oil revenues simply aren’t the basis for a stable economy.

Economists have been arguing for years that oil revenues, rather than offering a strong foundation for a viable economy, actually create long-term systemic problems that can stifle practical growth, feed nepotism, patronage and corruption, and transform governments into rentier states disassociated from the needs of the people. It has been apparent for some time that major oil producers had to diversify their economies in order to achieve long-term viability, but that argument was hard to make when oil was $140 a barrel.

Now, in the midst of a crisis for oil-producers, economic reform looks like more than just a smart idea: increasingly, it’s looking like the only way for oil-producers to survive in a new energy economy. This is true for Saudi Arabia, which ran a $100 billion deficit last year and has already cut workers and trimmed spending to cope with the downturn in prices. Vision 2030 is a permanent plan to end the country’s dependence on oil and replace Saudi Aramco with a brand-new economy.

But what, in the Saudi case, could replace a $2 trillion industry? Prince Salman offered some suggestions: tourism, investment in manufacturing, health care, education. Private investment will be crucial, and one of the many goals of Vision 2030 is to increase the privately owned share of the economy from 40 percent to 65 percent. Even more important will be the Public Investment Fund, into which the proceeds of the Saudi Aramco IPO will be funneled. Much of the possible success of Vision 2030 hinges on this fund paying out in the long-term.

However, there are now doubts that the declared value ($2.5 trillion) is a massive exaggeration: at least one commenter has pegged Saudi Aramco’s worth at closer to $400 billion, which means an IPO would generate far less than what Vision 2030 assumes. There is also traditional investor wariness regarding state industries, which are often ill-ran and exposed to political upheavals, which may further depress the share price, as in the case of the Russian company Rosneft in 2006.

But Saudi Arabia will need more than capital. Education will have to be overhauled, with some ramifications for Saudi culture. It was recently announced that the Saudi government hopes for women to make up 30 percent of the workforce by 2030, up from 22 percent. How this will be accomplished when men and women are largely forbidden to work together in close quarters is a particularly pertinent question.

The Saudi population is around 30 million. Two-thirds of that populace is under 30, and of that number one-third are unemployed. In the next decade 1.9 million young Saudis will enter the workforce, and it is not entirely clear what kinds of jobs they will be able to find. There are institutional problems, such as a lackluster education system (which the late King Abdullah worked to reform, with some success), and a dependence on imported labor in some industries: there are more than 9 million foreign expatriates working in Saudi Arabia. The internal Saudi market is relatively small; industries created to feed domestic demand will not have much room for growth.

Decades of oil exports have afflicted Saudi Arabia with the “Dutch Disease,” where its currency has remained artificially high, rendering its goods more expensive in foreign markets. If Saudi Arabia hopes to export to South Asia, as is suggested, it would have to do from a position of weakness. In some cases products with high pedigrees or luxurious associations can carve out niches for themselves, particularly among the urban affluent. But Saudi Arabia has no products, no industries to call its own: just oil.

There is more to Vision 2030 than just economics. Prince Salman has maneuvered himself into a position of pre-eminent power within the Saudi government. As foreign minister he has been responsible for the Saudi intervention in Yemen, and it was his intervention at the Doha conference in mid-April that scotched plans for an oil freeze and led, indirectly, to minister al-Naimi’s removal this weekend. Prince Salman is well-positioned to eventually become King, and his influence over foreign policy, the oil industry and the country’s economic future solidifies his position as one of the most powerful people in the Saudi government, after perhaps only King Salman himself. Vision 2030 could be all “smoke and mirrors,” a veil disguising the power politics inside one of the world’s last absolute monarchies. Time will tell.

@Bilad al-Haramayn

His/her username was 'TurkoPersian' elsewhere, I have no idea why. I never heard that the person was half Balochi/English. Probably isn't though, most likely full Asian.

I chose that username on IMF because of this:

http://www.cambridge.org/us/academi...tory-1500/turko-persia-historical-perspective

Al-Hasani (aka Bilad al-Haramayn) knows about my ethnicity because he knows me from another forum, even though he's trying to deny it lol.

The Iraqis on PDF exposed him a few years ago, but now he's back with another sockpuppet account.

 

[Falcon29]

@Kuwaiti Girl

K dude, go have fun in Kuwait, there is nice weather, do some fun things there. Don't focus too much on wishing misery for another group of people. It brings nothing to the world, and it would affect Kuwait too, and lead region into more horrific and senseless violence.

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

@Kuwaiti Girl

As expected you could not provide empirical evidence of your baseless claim. There are 450 million Arabs worldwide so let's not discuss numbers here. The 500.000 or so Kuwaiti nationals of Iranian (some partial) origin (Iranian ARABS being a significant group here) are not only a tiny drop in the ocean but also fully Arabized and a considerably amount of them, as written before, have mixed with locals. Nor do they form 50% of all nationals.

Aside from that the entire political elite in Kuwait is native including the ruling family. There are more people of Arab or partial Arab origin in Iran than people of Iranian origin in the GCC . The GCC is the only place along with Iraq, although almost all have disappeared from Iraq for obvious reasons, in the Arab world where there is a presence of Iranian Arabs, Persians, Lur etc. at all to begin with.

Anyway as I wrote, you should go back to obsessing about KSA and Arabs "TurkoPersian" (ironically you are neither, lol) not to mention your ancestral homeland (the non-existing Baluchistan nation).

@Bilad al-Haramayn

His/her username was 'TurkoPersian' elsewhere, I have no idea why. I never heard that the person was half Balochi/English. Probably isn't though, most likely full Asian.

Whatever she/he is it's a troll of no importance so let it bark. As you yourself noticed and apparently saw on that Iranian Mullah forum, she is obsessed about Arabs. I would not waste my time on him/her.

@Kuwaiti Girl

K dude, go have fun in Kuwait, there is nice weather, do some fun things there. Don't focus too much on wishing misery for another group of people. It brings nothing to the world, and it would affect Kuwait too, and lead region into more horrific and senseless violence.

Kuwait is a living hell during the summer. It's the hottest area in the MENA region alongside Southern Iraq and Southwestern Iran. Moreover Kuwait has been going downhill for decades.

Anyway to return to topic:

Here is a good example of sensationalist journalism:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/09/inv...rabia-cheap-oil/index.html?iid=hp-toplead-dom

"When Schreiber speaks, people sit up and pay attention. His 2014 prophesy reportedly led to a $1 billion profit for his firm."

Prophecy? For accurately predicting something that was already in progress? For knowing basic economics? Crude was already dropping when he spoke it.
It also doesn't make him an expert on Saudi Arabia.

"The problem is Saudi Arabia needs oil prices at over $100 a barrel to break even on its budget."

The price to balance the budget is about 80$ not 100$

"The kingdom spends heavily on perks for its huge population of nearly 30 million. Now it's being forced to reverse some of those gifts, as highlighted by the recent 50% gas price hike."

Which isn't even the highest price gas has been in the past two decades.

"And Schreiber argues that Saudi Arabia's balance sheet is "overstated and misunderstood." He points to nearly $340 billion of liabilities that minimize the size of that rainy day fund. "

I'd really like to know what these liabilities are. Considering Saudi Arabia has the world's lowest debt to GDP ratio

"These concerns may help explain why the Saudis are planning to sell off a 5% stake in the country's crown jewel: state-owned oil behemoth Aramco. "If they sell the golden goose, how do they fund anything? It's insane. Saudi is mortgaging away its future to buy time," said Schreiber."

Because, dear prophet who sees the future, Aramco doesn't actually own the oil. The government owns the reserves and Aramco simply manages it.

The price of oil was even lower in the 90s and government debt to GDP reached a historic high of over 100% of GDP in 1999.

Yet, these days, when Saudi Arabia is in a much stronger position, all the doomsayers are trotted out to sell papers.

Realizing Vision 2030 ​

Arab News | Published — Thursday 12 May 2016

GOALS SET: Saudi Aramco President Amin Al-Nasser briefs visiting journalists at the company's headquarters in Dhahran

​

SHAYBAH: Reddish-brown sand dunes twist across the desert, their canyon-like ridges accentuated by late afternoon sun as a Saudi Aramco jet approaches the site of a remote gas plant.

“Not many people live down there,” the captain announces in an American accent.
The Empty Quarter, a vast desert in the southern Arabian Peninsula, conjures an image of what Mars might look like. But it is here that technological advances enabled Saudi Arabia’s state energy giant to build the plant, and drill for oil despite the isolation and harsh environment. The Shaybah facility stands at the heart of Saudi Aramco’s long-standing dominance of the world oil industry, and its path for the future.
“Of course the location of Shaybah is a challenge,” said Faisal Shihabuddin, a 28-year-old Saudi engineer among about 1,500 workers at the site. Despite the challenges, it has been successfully developed over the past 20 years “in the middle of nowhere,” he added.
Although global oil prices have collapsed, production is expanding at Shaybah, as it is in other units of the company at the center of the Kingdom’s Vision 2030 drive for diversification away from oil. The government plans to sell less than 5 percent of the firm in what officials say will be the world’s largest-ever share offering, while transforming Saudi Aramco into “a global industrial conglomerate”.
At Shaybah, that transformation was on display to foreign journalists invited for a rare tour.
Their shift finished, workers in hardhats and blue overalls walk out from a complex of pipes, stacks and holding tanks at Shaybah’s plant for Natural Gas Liquids as the sun drops behind.
Products of the plant, opened late last year, include propane and butane recovered from natural gas and used in petrochemical production, a focus of Saudi Aramco’s move away from simple oil extraction.
By 2020 the company says it will have tripled its gas processing capacity from levels at the turn of the century. “Our gas program is expanding significantly,” Saudi Aramco President Amin Al-Nasser said in Dhahran.
The company says gas will help reduce the amount of oil the Kingdom uses for electricity. It is also an ingredient for other industries, aiding diversification, while being more environmentally friendly than other fossil fuels — all goals of the Vision 2030.
More oil is also being pulled from rocks in a field of more than 600 square km below the soft Shaybah dunes.
“We’re going to 1 million (barrels per day) in two weeks,” said Anwar Al-Hejazi, the production manager.
That is an increase from Shaybah’s current 750,000 barrels a day and only a part of the Kingdom’s total daily output of more than 10 million barrels from inland and offshore fields.
Saudi Aramco manages the world’s second-largest crude oil reserves at 261.1 billion barrels, as well as 294 trillion standard cubic feet of natural gas reserves.
At Shaybah, drilling occurs underground at hundreds of wells controlled remotely by operators who receive data by satellite from tentacle-like probes exploring the rock.
The information appears as squiggly lines resembling an electrocardiogram on their computer consoles at a room like a small lecture hall in Dhahran.
At a bigger control center, about half the length of a football pitch, the Kingdom’s entire hydrocarbon stock is monitored on multicolored floor-to-ceiling screens.
Dispatchers sit at several semi-circular stations monitoring flow and pressure data “to listen to the heartbeat of the system” and ensure its safety, said Abdullah Al-Mansour, manager of the Oil Supply Planning and Scheduling Center. Along with graphs and other numerical displays, the screens show icons of tanker ships on an electronic calendar.
The work is so sensitive and vital that cameras are forbidden and a smaller backup center has been readied elsewhere, Al-Mansour said.
The center is located within a series of modern gray office buildings, around a pedestrian plaza, that include a research center and a training facility for engineers and geoscientists.
Among its tools is a three-dimensional theater where trainees can virtually travel into the layers of oil, gas and water under the Shaybah sands.
For Shaybah-based workers like Abdullah Al-Aiderous, Dhahran is a weekly refuge, reached by Saudi Aramco’s own fleet of passenger planes flying into the company’s private terminal.
Al-Aiderous, a 31-year-old senior operations adviser, said living in Shaybah “basically reminds you of college life.”
He is among the 84 percent of the company’s roughly 66,000 employees who are Saudi.
Shihabuddin, the Shaybah-based engineer, said working in the desert outpost is not so hard, “except that you’re far away from home. Beside that, everything is available here.”
Well, not exactly.
Dhahran has “The Camp”, home to 20,000 in what resembles suburban America with bungalows and parks. Dhahran and other major Aramco facilities even have their own cinemas.
At Shaybah, the best show is the sun setting behind the dunes in the quiet wilderness, before orange lights from the gas facility glow in the vast darkness around it.


http://www.arabnews.com/news/realizing-vision-2030

Manufacturing to play a key role in realizing Vision 2030 ​

ARAB NEWS | Published — Tuesday 10 May 2016

​

JEDDAH: The manufacturing sector will continue to play a vital role in accelerating economic development and that the number of factories in the Kingdom are expected to increase to 9,000 by the year 2018, say experts.
“It (manufacturing sector) is one of the pillars included in the Saudi Vision of 2030 plan to support the gross domestic product. The expectation is that the industrial sector will account for 24 percent of Saudi Arabia’s GDP by 2020,” one of the business experts was quoted as saying by local media on Saturday.
They stressed that 2,000 more factories will be established in the next two years, as stated by the minister of commerce and industry in the Euro-money Conference.
Mutlaq Al-Qahtani, former head of the Jubail Industrial Chamber, said the industrial sector has received unlimited support in the Kingdom. “The number of plants rose to 6,871 by the end of 2015, with almost 1 million workers employed there. The number of factories is expected to rise to 9,000 by 2018 with a workforce of more than a million.”
The Kingdom realized successful experiences through the big industrial cities and the new visions will perpetuate this in terms of modernization of national industry, he said while appreciating the government for its efforts to develop the manufacturing sector.
Mohammed Rashid, chairman of the Chamber of Industry in Qassim, said the success of the industrial sector depends on the introduction of new measures such as resettlement rates and raising the proportion of manpower from the least expensive of countries.
He said that improving competitiveness of local products on the global level is necessary, not only to gain stakes in the exports market but also to maintain the domestic market shares. Also, industrial units in the Kingdom will have to raise productivity and quality.
“We need to face the challenges together with the efforts of the government, and in cooperation with the private and foreign sectors, to develop a healthy business environment in the Kingdom,” said Rashid.

http://www.arabnews.com/news/manufacturing-play-key-role-realizing-vision-2030

Al-Qassabi pledges to work hard to achieve 2030 goals ​

MOHAMMED RASOOLDEEN | Published — Thursday 12 May 2016

​

RIYADH: The new Commerce and Investment Minister Majid Al-Qassabi pledged on Tuesday to work hard and do his best to achieve the aspirations of the wise leadership in accordance with the Kingdom’s 2030 Vision.

The minister was speaking in Madinah at the Third Awards Ceremony for Excellent Government Performance in the presence of Madinah Gov. Prince Faisal bin Salman.
On behalf of his ministry, Al-Qassabi received the Award for Excellent Government Performance from the governor.
The MCI branch in Madinah won the Gold Award for consumer satisfaction and the Bronze Award for serving and employing citizens with special needs.
Last year, the MCI branch in Madinah grabbed the Silver Award. This year, 136 government departments in the Madinah region participated.
The minister said: “I extend my thanks and appreciation to Prince Faisal bin Salman for his kind support to enhance competitiveness among the government departments to achieve citizens’ needs by offering high-quality services.”
Al-Qasabi thanked his predecessor, Dr. Tawfiq Al-Rabiah, for his immense contributions to the prestigious award given in recognition of the MCI’s services.
Government departments participating in this contest in Madinah were subject to special evaluation criteria set by the authority in charge of this program, where a number of workshops were held.
The participating government departments were informed earlier of the guidelines of the competition.
The Ministry of Commerce and Investment recently launched the new Corporate Law to enhance the value of companies and to promote their trade activities to contribute to the development of the national economy.
The new law, which came into force in early May, one of the most prominent economic regulations for sustainable development, is issued by the state to provide an economic environment to be as incubator and a source of incentives for initiatives and investment.
The new law aims to enhance company value and to develop activities and contributions for serving the national economy. It also contributes in reducing procedure costs and encouraging business activity initiatives so as to promote the Kingdom’s leading position and its competitive advantages, and encourage more investments from entrepreneurs of small and medium enterprises.
The new system provides the appropriate legal framework for the practice of fair and sound corporate governance principles, institutional concepts, and supports the growth and continuity of economic entities, besides improving the institutional performance and the integrity of business transactions through the application of sound and fair standards of transparency and disclosure.
The new system will give a greater role to the shareholders’ associations and boards of directors in shaping corporate strategies and their companies’ responsibilities and activities.
MCI jurisdiction includes all companies except joint stock companies listed on the Saudi Stock Exchange, where the supervision and control of such companies would be under the jurisdiction of the Capital Market Authority.

http://www.arabnews.com/news/al-qassabi-pledges-work-hard-achieve-2030-goals

View attachment 304870

Not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand but this is better:

KSA should invest in more circuits and international races. Lot's of talented drivers. Formula 1 is already in nearby Bahrain and UAE and has been for quite some time.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

LOL, the sockpuppet has been rattled, I see.

I'll tell you what, al-Hasani (aka al-Hashimi, aka Bilad al-Haramayn, aka "I have a million sockpuppet accounts"), you can continue to pretend in your own little fantasy world that Kuwait is a pure Arab country, if it makes you feel better.

The truth, however, is that half of the Kuwaitis are Ajam (i.e. non-Arabs), most of whom are ethnic Persians, followed by ethnic Kurds, Lurs and Balochis. You're just too butthurt and racist to admit it because you hate the fact that your precious Arabian Peninsula is inhabited by millions of ethnic Iranians LOL.

By the way, I have many, many Balochi relatives in Oman and the UAE, and I even have a few in Qatar. The GCC states are filled with non-Arab citizens, most of whom are ethnic Persians.

Qatar's ruling family surrounds itself with ethnic Persians because it doesn't trust the Bedouin Arabs. Almost all rich and powerful/influential families in Qatar, such as the Al-Emadis and Al-Fardans, are of Persian origin. They control everything, from the financial institutions to the banks. The CEO of Qatar Airways is a Parsi; his family's originally from India. They all continue to speak Persian and other Iranian languages with their friends and relatives, according to what many of my friends tell me. If you visit Qatar and go to the old part of Doha, near Souq Waqif, you'll see a lot of Iranian Qataris speaking their native Persian dialects.

The same goes for the ruling family of Bahrain. It has literally surrounded itself with Sunni Iranian families because it doesn't trust its own Shiite Arab population lol. How sad. In fact, if you visit places like downtown Muharraq, you'll notice a lot of them speaking their native Iranian languages. Moreover, in the last couple of years, Bahrain has naturalized so many ethnic Balochis in order to de-Arabize its own population lol. Bahrain even has Balochi-speaking clubs and schools.

As for Oman and the UAE, they are literally swamped with people from Iran and the Indian subcontinent, many of whom are ethnic Iranians, such as Balochis and Pashtuns. There are citizens in Oman who literally cannot utter a single word in Arabic.

Most of the Ajam in the GCC are more proficient in English than they are in Arabic lol. Arabic is in fact a dying language in many parts of the Arab World, which is very ironic. You should Google it and see how countries like Lebanon are struggling to convince the young Lebanese to speak Arabic instead of English or French.

Muammar Gaddafi annoyed the Gulf rulers when he told them that most of the GCC citizens were Iranians LOL.

And, by the way, most of the so-called Arabs are originally non-Arab. What's worse is that a lot of self-proclaimed Arabs today don't even speak their own language properly.

Anyway, I've had enough of your nonsense. Enjoy what's left of your crumbling economy lol.

 

[somebozo]

A lot of cutting down is happening on corruption but to say the industry is still robust and purchasing is rising..I work in sales so I can tell..

There's only one way you'd know I was ethnically half Balochi, half English LOL. Just come clean and admit that you already knew me from another forum because your writing style has clearly given you away. Either you're lying about not knowing me from another forum, which wouldn't surprise me the least bit, or you've been doing a lot of stalking in your free time in order to find out more information about me. Whichever way you look at it, it's downright creepy. It's even creepier when considering the fact that it's got nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

As for me being a member on IMF, that's clearly none of your business, nor does it say anything about my views. I spent most of my time on that forum arguing with the Iranian members because we disagreed with one another on almost everything.

Also, don't pretend to be an expert on Kuwait. Half of the Kuwaiti citizens are non-Arabs, almost all of whom are originally from Iran. Moreover, inter-ethnic marriages in Kuwait are very uncommon due to social taboos. In fact, many Kuwaitis refuse to marry people from other tribes, let alone people from other ethnic or religious backgrounds.

Kuwaitis have all sorts of different opinions about Saudi Arabia, so I fail to see the ludicrous point you're trying to make.

Now do yourself a favor and stop obsessing over my person/ethnicity, especially since it's got absolutely nothing to do with the matter in hand. And if you refuse to stop playing this dirty game, I'll play my cards. Rest assured.

I have seen a class of Kuwaits who are offensive towards Saudi Arabia and another class which is pro-saudi Arabia..so its hard to generalize..I think the shared tribes like Mutairi tend to be Pro-saudi while the Iranian origin Kuwaitis - mostly Shia - tend to be anti saudi.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Why do you think that you have "found me out" when I have made no secret of my identity here? Unlike you who is half Baloch (a stateless people) and half English apparently, lol.

Being told about your identity and track on some Iranian Mullah forum by a user here does not equal getting personal and quite frankly I could not care less what an anti-Arab obsessed troll thinks in this regard. Your entire presence on this forum so far have been limited to obsessing about KSA and Arabs, it seems.

Look, there are 450 million Arabs worldwide. Nationals in Kuwait number between 1-1.5 million people. You do the math.

1/2 is once again your fantasy speaking to you. Show me empirical evidence of this. Just a single credible link. Yes, there have been plenty of intermarriages among lower and middle classes since a long time ago. This is common knowledge. Also why should it bother me that some 500.000 people (at most) are either of Iranian Arab, Lur, Persian or Baloch origin? Those people have adopted local culture, Arabic and mixed with locals. Unlike you I don't have anything against Persians, Lurs etc. but it seems that you have a problem with Arabs despite living in an Arab country.

KSA is a G-20 major economies member state, the GDP per capita (nominal) is one of the highest in the world, KSA is the largest surplus nation in the world with one of the largest reserves out there. The non-oil/gas sectors are also booming and KSA is expecting an economic growth of 3-4% this year. So yeah, the situation is absolutely horrible.

I would, if I were you, worry about the non-existing Baluchistan (nation state) and the immense poverty of the Baloch people in both Iran and Pakistan, rather than obsessing about KSA and Arabs.

How are "Baloch" stateless? Coz a Saudi troll says so?

LOL, the sockpuppet has been rattled, I see.

I'll tell you what, al-Hasani (aka al-Hashimi, aka Bilad al-Haramayn, aka "I have a million sockpuppet accounts"), you can continue to pretend in your own little fantasy world that Kuwait is a pure Arab country, if it makes you feel better.

The truth, however, is that half of the Kuwaitis are Ajam (i.e. non-Arabs), most of whom are ethnic Persians, followed by ethnic Kurds, Lurs and Balochis. You're just too butthurt and racist to admit it because you hate the fact that your precious Arabian Peninsula is inhabited by millions of ethnic Iranians LOL.

By the way, I have many, many Balochi relatives in Oman and the UAE, and I even have a few in Qatar. The GCC states are filled with non-Arab citizens, most of whom are ethnic Persians.

Qatar's ruling family surrounds itself with ethnic Persians because it doesn't trust the Bedouin Arabs. Almost all rich and powerful/influential families in Qatar, such as the Al-Emadis and Al-Fardans, are of Persian origin. They control everything, from the financial institutions to the banks. The CEO of Qatar Airways is a Parsi; his family's originally from India. They all continue to speak Persian and other Iranian languages with their friends and relatives, according to what many of my friends tell me. If you visit Qatar and go to the old part of Doha, near Souq Waqif, you'll see a lot of Iranian Qataris speaking their native Persian dialects.

The same goes for the ruling family of Bahrain. It has literally surrounded itself with Sunni Iranian families because it doesn't trust its own Shiite Arab population lol. How sad. In fact, if you visit places like downtown Muharraq, you'll notice a lot of them speaking their native Iranian languages. Moreover, in the last couple of years, Bahrain has naturalized so many ethnic Balochis in order to de-Arabize its own population lol. Bahrain even has Balochi-speaking clubs and schools.

As for Oman and the UAE, they are literally swamped with people from Iran and the Indian subcontinent, many of whom are ethnic Iranians, such as Balochis and Pashtuns. There are citizens in Oman who literally cannot utter a single word in Arabic.

Most of the Ajam in the GCC are more proficient in English than they are in Arabic lol. Arabic is in fact a dying language in many parts of the Arab World, which is very ironic. You should Google it and see how countries like Lebanon are struggling to convince the young Lebanese to speak Arabic instead of English or French.

Muammar Gaddafi annoyed the Gulf rulers when he told them that most of the GCC citizens were Iranians LOL.

And, by the way, most of the so-called Arabs are originally non-Arab. What's worse is that a lot of self-proclaimed Arabs today don't even speak their own language properly.

Anyway, I've had enough of your nonsense. Enjoy what's left of your crumbling economy lol.

Pashtuns & Baloch ethnic Iranians?

What are you talking about .. We are proud of our own culture and aren't Iranians ..

Yup, actually I tried to talk with one Arab that I found prayed at my neighborhood mosque and he said he was born in Indonesia and his parent come from Iraq. Usually Arab Indonesian come from Yemen. So from here I suspect that the immigration still continues. And Indonesian Muslim actually doesnt bother with them and quite welcome as well. Actually in Puncak, Bogor (near Jakarta), there are many immigrant from Arab, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. Even there is a fight between Pakistani immigrant and Afghanistan immigrant this year, something that I do understand the reason after I become member in PDF..........

PS: Brother, do you know what is the language used for large company like Aramco, is it English or Arabic...? As I would like to offer Aramco some service in the future ( you can smooth the business if you know the prince personally )

So what happened ? Did anybody die lol.

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

Keep blabbering and writing nonsense Balochi/English troll. People of Iranian origin in the GCC (this includes Iranian Arabs who are a significant group otherwise known as Hola etc.) who are citizens number no more than 1.5-2 million people out of almost 50 million citizens. Let alone the entire Arabian Peninsula which numbers 80 million people when Yemen is included.

Non-nationals are temporary visitors and in Kuwait alone 1/4 of the entire population (total population of Kuwait is barely 4 million) is made up by Arab expatriates.

Yes, Arabic (5th most spoken language in the world and one of the most influential) is dying. That's right. Meanwhile in comparison the Baloch language is the lingua franca of the entire world. Speaking about Farsi, 40% of the Farsi vocabulary is Arabic and they use an Arabic alphabet. One could almost claim that it was a bastardized Arabic dialect on its own.

I have seen a class of Kuwaits who are offensive towards Saudi Arabia and another class which is pro-saudi Arabia..so its hard to generalize..I think the shared tribes like Mutairi tend to be Pro-saudi while the Iranian origin Kuwaitis - mostly Shia - tend to be anti saudi.

All Kuwaiti Arabs trace their ancestry to Arab tribes originating from today's KSA. Whether they migrated from nearby KSA or Southern Iraq. The ruling family (House of Sabah), Bani Utbah, Dhafeer, Mutair, Enezi, Foraih, Hawajir, Tamim etc. are all the most dominating/numerous Arab tribes of Kuwait and they all originate in today's KSA.

Similarly the Bedoon are mostly of Arab origin (Iraq, KSA, Syria etc.).

Kuwait's native Shia community (which numbers no more than 500.000 locals) has close ties to the Shia Arab community of nearby Eastern Province. There is some dislike of state policy but that should not be equaled to people-to-people relations. In the wider picture the GCC populations are basically the same people on most fronts. I and most Arabs criticize numerous Arab regimes, including our own, etc. but that does not mean that we dislike people living in countries ruled by those same regimes.

How are "Baloch" stateless? Coz a Saudi troll says so?



Pashtuns & Baloch ethnic Iranians?

What are you talking about .. We are proud of our own culture and aren't Iranians ..



So what happened ? Did anybody die lol.

Did you even bother to read the posts? Troll. Nice one. By virtue of there not being a sovereign Baloch state. Anyway notice the context and my opponent. I don't have anything against the 8-10 million Baloch people but do you have a problem with Arabs? Your fellow Baloch here clearly has to which I and @Falcon29 where reacting to.

Anyway none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand.

@Horus a cleanup of this thread is necessary. A troll is loose.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

How are "Baloch" stateless? Coz a Saudi troll says so?



Pashtuns & Baloch ethnic Iranians?

What are you talking about .. We are proud of our own culture and aren't Iranians ..



So what happened ? Did anybody die lol.

Please don't misunderstand me. I wasn't referring to their nationality. Instead, I was referring to their ethnicity. Balochis and Pashtuns are ethnically "Iranic", similar to how Arabs and Jews are ethnically "Semitic".

They can be of any nationality though. For example, I'm ethnically half Balochi, but I'm a citizen of Kuwait. So, ethnically speaking, I'm half "Iranic" because the Balochis are an Iranic people. But my nationality is still Kuwaiti.

I'm well aware that most Pashtuns are either from Afghanistan or Pakistan. Anyway, most of the Balochis in the GCC states came from Iranian Balochistan.

And yes, Bilad al-Haramayn is clearly a troll. He's the sockpuppet of another Saudi member on PDF by the name of "al-Hasani". I also know him from another forum. His writing style and views are very familiar to me. Several members on both PDF and the other forum exposed him a few years ago.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Keep blabbering and writing nonsense Balochi/English troll. People of Iranian origin in the GCC (this includes Iranian Arabs who are a significant group otherwise known as Hola etc.) who are citizens number no more than 1.5-2 million people out of almost 50 million citizens. Let alone the entire Arabian Peninsula which numbers 80 million people when Yemen is included.

Non-nationals are temporary visitors and in Kuwait alone 1/4 of the entire population (total population of Kuwait is barely 4 million) is made up by Arab expatriates.

Yes, Arabic (5th most spoken language in the world and one of the most influential) is dying. That's right. Meanwhile in comparison the Baloch language is the lingua franca of the entire world. Speaking about Farsi, 40% of the Farsi vocabulary is Arabic and they use an Arabic alphabet. One could almost claim that it was a bastardized Arabic dialect on its own.



All Kuwaiti Arabs trace their ancestry to Arab tribes originating from today's KSA. Whether they migrated from nearby KSA or Southern Iraq. The ruling family (House of Sabah), Bani Utbah, Dhafeer, Mutair, Enezi, Foraih, Hawajir, Tamim etc. are all the most dominating/numerous Arab tribes of Kuwait and they all originate in today's KSA.

Similarly the Bedoon are mostly of Arab origin (Iraq, KSA, Syria etc.).

Kuwait's native Shia community (which numbers no more than 500.000 locals) has close ties to the Shia Arab community of nearby Eastern Province. There is some dislike of state policy but that should not be equaled to people-to-people relations. In the wider picture the GCC populations are basically the same people on most fronts. I and most Arabs criticize numerous Arab regimes, including our own, etc. but that does not mean that we dislike people living in countries ruled by those same regimes.



Did you even bother to read the posts? Troll. Nice one. By virtue of there not being a sovereign Baloch state. Anyway notice the context and my opponent. I don't have anything against the 8-10 million Baloch people but do you have a problem with Arabs? Your fellow Baloch here clearly has to which I and @Falcon29 where reacting to.

No Baloch so state .. Where is the hijazi state? And what's the big deal about having such a big Arab population? Just coz you breed like .. ? What's there to envy about the Arab states .. Most are conflict ridden and the rest sworn enemies of eachother .. I don't have a problem with Arabs .. I don't care man..

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

No Baloch so state .. Where is the hijazi state? And what's the big deal about having such a big Arab population? Just coz you breed like .. ? What's there to envy about the Arab states .. Most are conflict ridden and the rest sworn enemies of eachother .. I don't have a problem with Arabs .. I don't care man..

Hijazis are Arabs who live in Hijaz. They are not a separate ethnic group like Baloch people. Arabs have over 20 states (more than any other single ethnic group in the world) and within those states there are literary hundreds of regions, among which one happens to be Hijaz. The difference here should be clear to all.

You seem to have a somewhat hostile view of Arabs which your comment shows. I don't have any opinion about Baloch people either but I for sure have nothing against them as I have no reason for such a thing. Stating a fact when dealing with a troll does not amount to trolling or "hatred" which you clearly imagines to be the case otherwise you would not comment.

Meanwhile we have a supposed Kuwaiti national who clearly hates Arabs. She/he should return to her ancestral lands in Iran or Pakistan and live among Baloch people if Arabs are such a bad people..... Since she joined 90% of her posts have been anti-Arab nonsense in particular aimed at KSA. Meanwhile no single Arab user cares or comments about her people here.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

I find it very ironic that al-Hasani's sockpuppet (i.e. Bilad al-Haramayn) has now asked an administrator/moderator to clean up his own thread after he himself derailed it by speaking about other members' ethnicities and identities instead of having a civilized discussion about his country's economy.

How incredibly ironic lol.

You know something, al-Hasani, you should have stayed on topic a few pages ago when I was trying to discuss the Saudi economy with you instead of taking swipes at my ethnicity.

Keep blabbering and writing nonsense Balochi/English troll. People of Iranian origin in the GCC (this includes Iranian Arabs who are a significant group otherwise known as Hola etc.) who are citizens number no more than 1.5-2 million people out of almost 50 million citizens. Let alone the entire Arabian Peninsula which numbers 80 million people when Yemen is included.

Non-nationals are temporary visitors and in Kuwait alone 1/4 of the entire population (total population of Kuwait is barely 4 million) is made up by Arab expatriates.

Yes, Arabic (5th most spoken language in the world and one of the most influential) is dying. That's right. Meanwhile in comparison the Baloch language is the lingua franca of the entire world. Speaking about Farsi, 40% of the Farsi vocabulary is Arabic and they use an Arabic alphabet. One could almost claim that it was a bastardized Arabic dialect on its own.




All Kuwaiti Arabs trace their ancestry to Arab tribes originating from today's KSA. Whether they migrated from nearby KSA or Southern Iraq. The ruling family (House of Sabah), Bani Utbah, Dhafeer, Mutair, Enezi, Foraih, Hawajir, Tamim etc. are all the most dominating/numerous Arab tribes of Kuwait and they all originate in today's KSA.

Similarly the Bedoon are mostly of Arab origin (Iraq, KSA, Syria etc.).

Kuwait's native Shia community (which numbers no more than 500.000 locals) has close ties to the Shia Arab community of nearby Eastern Province. There is some dislike of state policy but that should not be equaled to people-to-people relations. In the wider picture the GCC populations are basically the same people on most fronts. I and most Arabs criticize numerous Arab regimes, including our own, etc. but that does not mean that we dislike people living in countries ruled by those same regimes.



Did you even bother to read the posts? Troll. Nice one. By virtue of there not being a sovereign Baloch state. Anyway notice the context and my opponent. I don't have anything against the 8-10 million Baloch people but do you have a problem with Arabs? Your fellow Baloch here clearly has to which I and @Falcon29 where reacting to.

Anyway none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand.

@Horus a cleanup of this thread is necessary. A troll is loose.

You're right about the part in bold. None of this has to do with the matter in hand. So why did you turn your own thread into a debate about ethnicity? Why did you spend the last two pages taking swipes at my ethnicity and identity instead of debating me about the Saudi economy?

It's funny how it has literally taken you 2 pages until you decided to get back on topic.

And, finally, don't lecture me about Kuwait. I know more about Kuwait than you do.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Hijazis are Arabs who live in Hijaz. They are not a separate ethnic group like Baloch people. Arabs have over 20 states (more than any other single ethnic group in the world) and within those states there are literary hundreds of regions, among which one happens to be Hijaz. The difference here should be clear to all.

And Pashtuns,Baluch are of Iranic origin .. And they had several states as far as central india..

Baluch tribesmen have had established several states .. Ruled (most of the time) by individual rulers/dynasties .. apart from the first unified ruler Mir Nasir Khan..


As for Arab states .. which had their borders drawn & rulers installed by the British ..

.. Arabs themselves are divided on the bases of tribes,families,sects etc.. All of whom look down upon eachother..

As for hijazi etc .. Is Saudi Arabia a homogenous Arab state ? Is it a hijazi state? You people yourself have different origins among yourselves ..

And Pak itself is a multiethnic country .. A democracy .. We don't have monarchy here or the ruler of a certain ethnicity and so on.. All ethnic groups form this state .. The Baluch warrior of the ancient times is a Pak soldier today..

You seem to have a somewhat hostile view of Arabs which your comment shows.

My father always taught me ... Respect is earned not demanded... And I follow the same philosophy.. So should you.