SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[Indo-Pak]

I have some queires, which I can't get from this thread even after reading last 4-5 page of this thread,

1. Is China selling FC31?
2. Is JF31 ready for sale?
3. Is Pakistani and China jointly working on FC31 as they did with JF17?
4. Is there any official negotiation going for FC31?
5. Is there interest shown by PAF to Govenment for aquiring 5th gen plane?

 

[aftab_s81]

I have some queires, which I can't get from this thread even after reading last 4-5 page of this thread,

1. Is China selling FC31?
2. Is JF31 ready for sale?
3. Is Pakistani and China jointly working on FC31 as they did with JF17?
4. Is there any official negotiation going for FC31?
5. Is there interest shown by PAF to Govenment for aquiring 5th gen plane?

1. Yes, but its called J-31
2. There is no aircraft named JF31
3. No, only China working on that
4. I don't think there are any negotiations but EVALUATION is an ongoing process, so is the case may be for Su-35
5. Officially no statement, rumors are PAF want J-31 or similar to take place of their Tier-I platform, i.e, F-16.

@Windjammer

 

[Indo-Pak]

You cannot do that. Or at best, you options will be severely limited.

The F-117 used the F-16's flight controls avionics. Not from the F-15. But from the F-16. Even so, that did not mean we can swap the flight controls computer (FLCC) between the two platforms. What we did was took the FLCS from the F-16 and modified it to compensate for the F-117's flying idiosyncrasies, and every airframe have its quirks. The F-117 was no different. The F-16's FLCS was flexible enough to be modded. General Dynamics did not planned it that way. They just happened to design the entire package, airframe + avionics, in a combination that became unexpectedly versatile.

What you asked for, there are many unknowns. To start, you must have baseline data of the J-31's aerodynamics, at least from wind tunnel testing. Then you must have data from as wide a variety of FLCS as possible on the ranges of each system, such as AOA limits, surface deflection degrees and rates, and the list is long.

Go back to the F-16's FLCS for a moment. The F-16 have mechanical speedbrakes, but the F-117 does not. Unmodified, if the computer did not 'see' a pair of speedbrakes, it would assume that there is something wrong with the entire aircraft and default to certain basic flight control algorithms. We had to disable that part of the FLCC in order to perform in the F-117. The F-16 have leading edge (LE) flaps, the F-117 does not. The differences between the two airframes are long, but the fact that the F-16's FLCS was used is testament to the genius from General Dynamics.

While what you asked for is not technically impossible, it will be costly in terms of exploration if a foreign avionics package can be adapted to the J-31. If you throw enough money at the challenge, you will succeed. So how much money does Pakistan have ?

Though I join soon, I have been reading your posts/replies since years. Big admirer of you..

1. Yes, but its called J-31
2. There is no aircraft named JF31
3. No, only China working on that
4. I don't think there are any negotiations but EVALUATION is an ongoing process, so is the case may be for Su-35
5. Officially no statement, rumors are PAF want J-31 or similar to take place of their Tier-I platform, i.e, F-16.

@Windjammer

Thank you Sir, @aftab_s81 , So it means, the plane is not ready yet. Once its ready and If china is willing to sell it Pakistan "MAY" buy it , provided Pakistan economy allows.

I am looking the net to find out when this plane will be ready for China and when China will have adaquate number of bird and when the assembly line will be free for Exports..

For example: India has made a bird, the assembly line will be busy for next 5 years to fullfil india need, once that is done India can export that bird. In short, Once domestic need to fulfill birds can be exported.

If a bird is ready to be made, it may take 5-10 years for export (unless joint developed like JF17, F35 or FGFA).

 

[aftab_s81]

Though I join soon, I have been reading your posts/replies since years. Big admirer of you..




Thank you Sir, @aftab_s81 , So it means, the plane is not ready yet. Once its ready and If china is willing to sell it Pakistan "MAY" buy it , provided Pakistan economy allows.

I am looking the net to find out when this plane will be ready for China and when China will have adaquate number of bird and when the assembly line will be free for Exports..

For example: India has made a bird, the assembly line will be busy for next 5 years to fullfil india need, once that is done India can export that bird. In short, Once domestic need to fulfill birds can be exported.

If a bird is ready to be made, it may take 5-10 years for export (unless joint developed like JF17, F35 or FGFA).

The plane is in the prototyping stage. China may unveil (rumors) the second, aerodynamically more refined prototype, in the coming Airshow China (http://www.airshow.com.cn). I personally think the induction may happen near/beyond 2020 PROVIDED, one, it meets PAF requirements, two, PAF has finances. Also there must be consideration if PLANAF (the air branch of Chinese Navy) inducts it or not. PAF has always been secretive in this regard and Chines are always very secretive. BTW first prototype flew in 2014, process is slow due priority of J-20.

 

[Dazzler]

FC-31 is exclusively developed for export market. Here is what Catic Website says....


The FC-31 is a fourth generation multi role fighter developed for the international market. With excellent combined operation effectiveness and independent intellectual property rights, it adopts a normal configuration - single seat, twin engine, outward tilted twin vertical tail and all movable horizontal tail, with big S inlet on its both sides and a built-in weapon pod.

Features:
a) High survival rate: low radar observability, low IR radiation, excellent ECM, and low vulnerability;
b) Multi mission capabilities: strong target detection and integrated outside information capability, outstanding status sensing and information sharing capability, beyond visual range (BVR) multi target attacking and large off-boresight all directional combat capability, accurate air-surface strike capability, and complicated weather conditions and vast region operation adaptability;
c) Excellent integrated logistics capability; and
d) High cost performance.


http://www.catic.cn/front

 

[volatile]

Features:
a) High survival rate: low radar observability, low IR radiation, excellent ECM, and low vulnerability;
b) Multi mission capabilities: strong target detection and integrated outside information capability, outstanding status sensing and information sharing capability, beyond visual range (BVR) multi target attacking and large off-boresight all directional combat capability, accurate air-surface strike capability, and complicated weather conditions and vast region operation adaptability;
c) Excellent integrated logistics capability; and
d) High cost performance.

Thanks ,Just a quick question is there any third party verification for the claims ? e.g like a body/protocols which verifies these claims

 

[aftab_s81]

IMHO, it doesn't make sense to buy this aircraft (J-31), unless China chooses for it PLANAF. It will be highly insecure platform if country of origin doesn't put some of its eggs in this basket as well. Moreover, the selection of PLANAF will actually accelerate the development process and further refine the base design. Pakistan will have a readily available carrier-based platform, if in future, ever Pakistan decides to have one.
@MastanKhan @Windjammer

 

[Deino]

1. Yes, but its called J-31
..

NO !! This aircraft is ONLY called FC-31 ... J-31 - even if I use this erroneously too - is wrong, since only operational types within the PLAAF get a "J"-designation.

Deino

 

[Dazzler]

Thanks ,Just a quick question is there any third party verification for the claims ? e.g like a body/protocols which verifies these claims

Hmm, I wonder, did you ever question LM or Boeing or SAAB about their product features they have listed on their website?

 

[volatile]

Hmm, I wonder, did you ever question LM or Boeing or SAAB about their product features they have listed on their website?

Its a generic question not centric or biased to any one .Argument i choose over this narration e.g tomorrow HAL comes up with XYZ claim or PAC claims some thing but in reality the performance is not as it seems to be so thats why there are several bodies like ISO for quality guarantee ,CoC Chain of custody or some thing on these lines ,it will be interested and educated for all of us to know that

 

[MastanKhan]

IMHO, it doesn't make sense to buy this aircraft (J-31), unless China chooses for it PLANAF. It will be highly insecure platform if country of origin doesn't put some of its eggs in this basket as well. Moreover, the selection of PLANAF will actually accelerate the development process and further refine the base design. Pakistan will have a readily available carrier-based platform, if in future, ever Pakistan decides to have one.
@MastanKhan @Windjammer

Hi,

Paf has become an extremely unpredictable and unpatriotic organization---. The nation needs to start to decide what needs to be done regarding the purchase of the airforce.

 

[Incog_nito]

I think J-20s are coming....

 

[aftab_s81]

I think J-20s are coming....

I think F-22 is coming alongwith F-35, Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen and .. did I miss any?

Hi,

Paf has become an extremely unpredictable and unpatriotic organization---. The nation needs to start to decide what needs to be done regarding the purchase of the airforce.

I don't want to tag them unpatriotic (or anyone else for that matter), but they are extremely unpredictable. They are unlike any airforce in the world. Sweds are working on Gripen NG, India on Rafale, PAK-FA, even smaller airforces have visible plan. But when it comes to PAF, well, you can see.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I think J-20s are coming....

Not possible, ban for export just like F-22

 

[592257001]

IMHO, it doesn't make sense to buy this aircraft (J-31), unless China chooses for it PLANAF. It will be highly insecure platform if country of origin doesn't put some of its eggs in this basket as well. Moreover, the selection of PLANAF will actually accelerate the development process and further refine the base design. Pakistan will have a readily available carrier-based platform, if in future, ever Pakistan decides to have one.
@MastanKhan @Windjammer

Neither was FC-1/JF-17 choosen by PLAN/PLAAF, yet it has flourished into a very capable fighter for PAF.

At the end of the day, the same reason which prohibited the PLAN/PLAAF from inducting JF-17 exists for FC-31 as well. The quantitative demand for fighters in China is great enough to warrant highly specialized fighters, instead of "Jack of all trades" such as JF-17 or FC-31.

Whereas PAF most likely prioritizes the element of multi-purpose more than anything else.