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SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

how can we use 4 generation avionics in 5 generation fighter jet? care to explain
i may have mislead you i just wanted to say the avionics "we want" .......... and when you said that west will not let it use on a chinese design then i said perhaps we can use jf-17 to get them but instead replicate them on j-31 but you were right it is just a stupid fanboy idea ......... its not worth discussion so lets just move on
 
...if we can get j-31 airframe intact and add whatever avionics we want...
You cannot do that. Or at best, you options will be severely limited.

The F-117 used the F-16's flight controls avionics. Not from the F-15. But from the F-16. Even so, that did not mean we can swap the flight controls computer (FLCC) between the two platforms. What we did was took the FLCS from the F-16 and modified it to compensate for the F-117's flying idiosyncrasies, and every airframe have its quirks. The F-117 was no different. The F-16's FLCS was flexible enough to be modded. General Dynamics did not planned it that way. They just happened to design the entire package, airframe + avionics, in a combination that became unexpectedly versatile.

What you asked for, there are many unknowns. To start, you must have baseline data of the J-31's aerodynamics, at least from wind tunnel testing. Then you must have data from as wide a variety of FLCS as possible on the ranges of each system, such as AOA limits, surface deflection degrees and rates, and the list is long.

Go back to the F-16's FLCS for a moment. The F-16 have mechanical speedbrakes, but the F-117 does not. Unmodified, if the computer did not 'see' a pair of speedbrakes, it would assume that there is something wrong with the entire aircraft and default to certain basic flight control algorithms. We had to disable that part of the FLCC in order to perform in the F-117. The F-16 have leading edge (LE) flaps, the F-117 does not. The differences between the two airframes are long, but the fact that the F-16's FLCS was used is testament to the genius from General Dynamics.

While what you asked for is not technically impossible, it will be costly in terms of exploration if a foreign avionics package can be adapted to the J-31. If you throw enough money at the challenge, you will succeed. So how much money does Pakistan have ?
 
While what you asked for is not technically impossible, it will be costly in terms of exploration if a foreign avionics package can be adapted to the J-31. If you throw enough money at the challenge, you will succeed. So how much money does Pakistan have ?
will it be as expensive as j-31 acquisition from china or a fifth gen program ?????......
 
i may have mislead you i just wanted to say the avionics "we want" .......... and when you said that west will not let it use on a chinese design then i said perhaps we can use jf-17 to get them but instead replicate them on j-31 but you were right it is just a stupid fanboy idea ......... its not worth discussion so lets just move on

It's not difficult to integrate Western avionics and other subsystems on the J-31. It's the same procedure that's used for other fighter jets such as the JF-17. Anyone that says it can't be done has their heads deep in the sand. The issue of integrating western subsystems on the J-31 are political and not technical....and in Pakistan's case, financial as well.
 
J-31 are political and not technical....and in Pakistan's case, financial as well.
well it will be still cheaper than full j-31 purchase from china ........ political issues are the ones to be dealt with ...... still depends on the immediate need of PAF
 
well it will be still cheaper than full j-31 purchase from china ........ political issues are the ones to be dealt with ...... still depends on the immediate need of PAF
no sir it is not a cheaper option, western countries wouldn't allow us to put in the J-31 and Chinese captures their sensitive technology, just like US one in the distant past
 
Yea we can but we would have to wait till 2020 or even longer for that to happen.
damn right its not like we need 5th gen platform right now................ Falcons are still the best
 
damn right its not like we need 5th gen platform right now................ Falcons are still the best
With the exception of F-22 there is no other 5th gen platform in service in the world, so why you are in a hurry mood?
 
bro that is exactly what i have said
as i said on my above post there is single 5th gen fighter in service and others are in the different development phases, if you are worrying India & Russia's FFGA, i think it will not come after 2022 to 2025 to the Indian airforce, at same time we will have J-31
 
as i said on my above post there is single 5th gen fighter in service and others are in the different development phases, if you are worrying India & Russia's FFGA, i think it will not come after 2022 to 2025 to the Indian airforce, at same time we will have J-31
you are ri8 we will waiting for it this time we will made jf 17 comparable to f16 and also in 2022 or 2025 turkey also made fidth generation fighter so we have many option of it

as i said on my above post there is single 5th gen fighter in service and others are in the different development phases, if you are worrying India & Russia's FFGA, i think it will not come after 2022 to 2025 to the Indian airforce, at same time we will have J-31
and we also equip western avionics in turkey 5th generation so wait and watch
 
you are ri8 we will waiting for it this time we will made jf 17 comparable to f16 and also in 2022 or 2025 turkey also made fidth generation fighter so we have many option of it
sir do some research than reply turkey 5th generation fighter is in initial phase of development and will not come after 2030 no we have only two options 1,TFX 2, J-31 and best bet for Pakistan is J-31 because its string free, the weakest point for TFX is its engine which will come from EF-2000 which is string prone to Pakistan, hope you understand my points Thanks
and we also equip western avionics in turkey 5th generation so wait and watch
look at my above post
 
Saturday, September 10, 2016

J-31 Updates

Most recently, the first LRIP batch of J-20 appears to be handed over to FTTC to start the processing of getting inducted into PLAAF later this year or early next. While J-20 has progressed very smoothly up to this point, J-31 appears to have run into a major roadblock.

As readers may know, the first J-31 demonstrator came out a couple of years ago to great fanfare. At the time, it was thought to be a SAC funded private project that was also getting some PLAAF funding. Many people, including me, thought that was the first step to getting picked up by PLAAF and/or PLANAF. As it happened, we never saw a second version or a real prototype of J-31 despite many rumours and interesting models in air shows. There were even some rumours earlier this year that a second version of J-31 was about to come out that would be a lot further along toward a production model.

Most recently, one of the insiders on Chinese forums said that J-31 has not been picked up by PLAAF or PLANAF. At the same time, a more official source said that J-31 is for export. And we know that J-31 will again be brought to display in the 2016 Zhuhai air show. From all of this, it seems that SAC is working hard to attract foreign funding to continue this project. At least as of now, neither the air force nor the navy has interest in this project. Now, I was always under the impression that PLAAF only had interest in one 5th generation fighter jet prior to J-31 demonstrator came out. After that, I thought J-31 might serve as the low end of PLAAF’s future combat force instead of an upgraded J-10 variant. If PLAAF rejected J-31, that could either mean it has no interest in funding a 2nd type of 5th generation aircraft or that J-31 is simple not up to par. If the reason is latter, that could either mean J-31 design is technologically up to PLAAF expectations (in terms of stealth, radar or flight performance) or cost to performance below expectations or certain components simply not ready (like the next generation engine). While PLAAF questions are harder to answer, we do know for sure that PLANAF will need a next generation naval aircraft to replace J-15s. However, they rejected J-31 even though SAC has some real naval aircraft experience in developing and building J-15. So what do I make all of this?

I think PLAAF will not be ordering that many J-20 over its lifetime, because it is envisions as a high-end aircraft (ala F-22). They definitely need a cheaper and less capable fighter jet that can at least be competitive against F-35s. I don’t think the extremely unstealthy J-11 series or the light and less powerful J-10 series can be the answer to that. Sometimes in the next decade, PLAAF will have the desire for a true lower end 5th generation aircraft. In the past, PLAAF eventually did pick aircraft types that it had originally rejected like JH-7 and K-8 (possibly even L-15). In the case of latter, Hongdu managed to persuade foreign investment into the project. It was only after suitable engines became available that PLAAF decided to pick up K-8 as JL-8. I think that is the road J-31 could go. If it can attract enough foreign funding to continue, then domestic engine options should become available sometimes next decade. At that time, PLAAF could certainly choose to order it. The other question is whether or not PLAAF is willing to have Chengdu produce 2 different 5th generation types. Up until now, PLAAF has preferred to split its projects between Chengdu and Shenyang. Shenyang got the heavy fighter and Chengdu the light fighter. Chengdu won the 5th generation contest with its heavy design to the surprise of many. With J-20’s rapid progress, it hardened my view that Chengdu is far more capable of developing new fighter jet series than Shenyang. With the failure of J-31, I do question whether or not Shenyang is even capable of developing a new fighter jet that appeals to PLAAF. We know it can create new variants of flankers, but that’s far from developing a new aircraft. On the other hand, Chengdu has a lot of work with J-20 series, J-10 series and numerous UAVs. While J-20 was in serious development, the progress of J-10B/C was quite slow due to the shift in engineering resources. When J-20 does go in production in a couple of years, could Chengdu have enough resource again for a new fighter series as well as continued support and upgrades for J-20 and J-10? I certainly have doubts about that. I do think that it is still more likely Shenyang will be producing a 5th generation aircraft type for PLAAF in the future.

As for PLANAF, the fight is now between a navalized version of J-20 from CAC or something new from SAC. Shenyang won the first round, because PLAN liked the range and payload of flankers. For the next generation, SAC has to start from scratch, while CAC already has a functioning aircraft. Since J-31 has already been rejected, SAC has to come up with something better than that to win over PLAN. J-15 is likely to be in production for at least the next aircraft carrier CV-17. After that, the next generation aircraft carriers of PLAN will likely to be larger than CV-16/17. They would be CATOBAR carriers that can launch fixed wing AEW asset, fully loaded fighter jet and long-range fighter-bombers. Even though J-15 has only joined service recently, PLANAF will soon be deciding between SAC and CAC on the next generation fighter jet. At this point, it seems more likely that a naval version of J-20 or a naval fighter-bomber based on J-20 would get picked.

So all of this would indicate SAC needs to do something to impress on the decision makers. Most of their projects right now are some flanker variations. We saw the sharp sword demonstrator a while back, but CAC has shown more UAV designs. It will be interesting to see how SAC can move on from the J-11 series.

Finally, I hear the rumour that the “20” series of aircraft will be the start in Zhuhai airshow this year. I can certainly see Y-20 and Z-20 make appearances in the air show and fly around. However, I do not think J-20 will participate this year. J-31 will appear and try to attract more funding. H-20 is the other project that has attracted a lot of attention from PLA watchers. At this point, we probably won’t see much about it until after it makes a maiden flight. With the size of J-20, I think it can be used to develop a next generation fighter-bomber.

Feng at 6:57 AM
 
J-31 V.2.0 CG
j-31-cg-when-jpg.333192





It is official: negotiations with overseas customers who have shown keen interests in FC-31 are ongoing.


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Credit to @cirr
https://defence.pk/threads/sac-fc-31-stealth-aircraft-development-news-discussions.207796/page-148

Pakistan? Iran? Turkey? Saudi Arabia? Bangladesh? :coffee:
 

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