SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[madmusti]

Pakistan should join to the Project from South Korea instead of this Aircraft that even is a 5th Gen.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Pakistan should join to the Project from South Korea instead of this Aircraft that even is a 5th Gen.

any specific reason?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Pakistan should join to the Project from South Korea instead of this Aircraft that even is a 5th Gen.

Sanction prone program for pakistan, KFX will be using too much technology from USA, my best bet is to stick J-31 program

 

[mil-avia]

Side view :

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Related link(s).

 

[CHI RULES]

Pakistan should join to the Project from South Korea instead of this Aircraft that even is a 5th Gen.

Korean fighter jet project is more looks like 4.5th gen jet just like Turkish project, both jets shall be used in complementary role alongwith true 5th gen jets.

 

[The Eagle]

if is it about to choose to join the project rather buying off the shelf, Turkey's project would be ideal in respect of their advancement in tech and would help a lot more to learn by this program. It was heard that J-31 is arriving in ISB for testing or anything yet no news nor any information about PAK-China development in J-31 program so far? does things iced or is it like no news to disclose yet but i hope process is underway

 

[Manticore]

pshamim at pakdef
''
F-31are being discussed now. Upto 60 may be purchased initially, if talks succeed hopefully
Quantities may vary. This is the latest information. Let's see what transpires next.
Numbers are ambitious but where the money will come from. Apprehensive but assure the discussions are on''

 

[asia2000]

pshamim at pakdef
''
F-31are being discussed now. Upto 60 may be purchased initially, if talks succeed hopefully
Quantities may vary. This is the latest information. Let's see what transpires next.
Numbers are ambitious but where the money will come from. Apprehensive but assure the discussions are on''

Is PAF joining the development? Someone said the 2nd prototype of FC-31 would come out this year.

 

[Quwa]

Is PAF joining the development? Someone said the 2nd prototype of FC-31 would come out this year.

I don't think there's any other way to get the FC-31 program going, especially since the AVIC chief (during the Dubai Air Show) said that an external partner was being sought.

 

[Wolf]

I don't think there's any other way to get the FC-31 program going, especially since the AVIC chief (during the Dubai Air Show) said that an external partner was being sought.

How much investment in the project is being sought? If say 2 billion dollars of investment will get Pakistan to license produce them locally in 2 years time or if PAF gets 2 squadrons of FC 31 in 2 years time, then, its not a bad investment.

 

[Quwa]

How much investment in the project is being sought? If say 2 billion dollars of investment will get Pakistan to license produce them locally in 2 years time or if PAF gets 2 squadrons of FC 31 in 2 years time, then, its not a bad investment.

Unfortunately I don't know.

 

[592257001]

PAF wants to buy these fighters off the shelf. Although JFT has been a success t was complicated by the Chinese AF subsequent refusal to induct these fighters inspite of the agreement. This had implications on its development pace and cost.PAF does not want a repeat of the same picture especially with a far more riskier project which could easily absorb 5-10 billion more in its development cycle. We need smaller number and a huge outlay may not be worth the benefit.

Interesting, this is the first time I've heard of such complication, do you have any source as to this information, sir? From what I know, JF-17/FC-1/Super-7 project never had a "J" series name , meaning it was never designed nor planned to be inducted as a fighter aircraft by the PLAAF (analogous to how only J-20 has the J series name, but not FC-31, which is meant for export). It would also be a doubtfully surprising move for the PLAAF to order the induction of two indigenous fighters of similar size in the same relative time frame, especially when the J-10 conducted its first test flight 5 years before the JF-17.

On the contrary, do you not believe JF-17's development process has actually been EXPEDITED because of the PLAAF's investment into more advanced jets such as the J-10B and the J-20 during JF-17's later block's continuing development? The effort of research into the development of various sub-systems for those jets has allowed JF-17's own development to be free of obstacles due to trickle-down effect. Many of these "off-the-shelf" sub-systems such as EW suites/Avionics/weapons systems would not have been so easily accessible if they have to be made possible for the first time on the JF-17's platform.

FYI, the PLAAF did not favor JF-17 because it considers it sub-par, but because there is not a niche for light weight multi-role fighter in PLAAF. All jets are comprised of compromises due to their design requirement. PLAAF's most paramount requirement for J-10 was air-air combat, and ALL aircraft design has to yield to that, which resulted in little consideration to J-10's anti-ship/anti-surface capabilities. PLAAF's fine with that because its got dedicated strike fighters suc has JH-7 and various flanker derivatives, but PAF NEEDS a multi-role fighter that can excel in all those regard. It is only logical for both air force to equip different jets.

 

[Viper0011.]

Side view :

View attachment 278355
950 × 428 pixels


Related link(s).

You realize this picture really means at this time in flight and with this weapons' configuration, the RCS is around 3(MS)s right? There is nothing stealthy with missiles hanging and the weapons bay opened!! You have got to hide everything....

If you want to fly this jet like this, its a waste of like $ 75 million per plane. JFT block III may be a better option for such configuration. Use this plane with stealthy techniques. Don't make it a sitting duck with weapon loads attached!!

 

[592257001]

You realize this picture really means at this time in flight and with this weapons' configuration, the RCS is around 3(MS)s right? There is nothing stealthy with missiles hanging and the weapons bay opened!! You have got to hide everything....

If you want to fly this jet like this, its a waste of like $ 75 million per plane. JFT block III may be a better option for such configuration. Use this plane with stealthy techniques. Don't make it a sitting duck with weapon loads attached!!

Imagine an attack scenario on the Ins vikramaditya, PAF's FC-31 carries two C-802 externally, two BVR PL-12C internally and two WVR PL-10 internally (A VERY modest loadout for the FC-31). Even with a RCS of 3M squared due to the external ASMs (let's assume it's the non-stealth C-802), it will still be able to reach within ~250km of the Ins vikramaditya at a relatively high cruising altitude (for fuel conservation and maximizing ASM range), a range that's much closer than a non-stealth JF-17 could reach without being detected.

Upon detection of the FC-31's faint radar signal, Ins vikramaditya launches its MIGs and possibly Tejas to intercept. Then, FC-31 launches both of its ASMs, and in turn disappears from all Indian radar due to its now <0.1m squared frontal RCS. Still accelerating towards the vikramaditya , FC-31 launches its BVRs and takes out the Ka-31 that was launched from the vikramaditya to detect the approaching sea-skimming ASMs, making sure the vikramaditya will have minimum time upon detection to intercept the ASMs. FC-31 now defends it self from the Migs and Tejas with its PL-10s and retreats back to Pakistan soil with its super cruise capability.

 

[CHI RULES]

Dear Sir,

The non stealthy Air superiority jets are also not useless not now and perhaps in future as they have effective EW suites and other countermeasures. If equipped with LRAM and flying above 60,000Ft shall be difficult to counter. Similarly SAMS don't have 100% kill probability especially capable Air superiority jets like SU30-35. In case of Indo/Pak scenario even Pak Mirages if fielded in numbers can do much damage though with heavy losses let alone the FC31.

One should expect that even for external loads the some sort of stealthy measures shall be taken in final phase.

Apart from J20, F22 Raptor or F35 no other project look to be a true stealthy fighter.The anti stealth measures are also on their way.