SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[The Eagle]

Speculation: I think the PAF FGFA design will be similar in concept to the KF-X. You'll notice that the launch version of the KF-X also lacks an internal bay @messiach @Oscar. The PAF seems to be more focused on getting a specific range and payload level up in the air (with a complex line of electronics) than 'stealth'. South Korea was thinking on the same lines.

If you mean NxGF before Azm then I can assume what it may turn out to be i.e. KFX design without internal bays. FC-31 type without side bays may fit well.

 

[Quwa]

If you mean NxGF before Azm then I can assume what it may turn out to be i.e. KFX design without internal bays. FC-31 type without side bays may fit well.

Well the interesting thing is that the KF-X Block 2 will have internal bays. So, you could design for it, but to save time and cost in the near term, you can skip it. If the PAF can't get additional new F-16s or some other jet, then what other option is there to expedite Azm as a bayless fighter first, and then bring in a bay-version later?

 

[The Eagle]

Well the interesting thing is that the KF-X Block 2 will have internal bays. So, you could design for it, but to save time and cost in the near term, you can skip it. If the PAF can't get additional new F-16s or some other jet, then what other option is there to expedite Azm as a bayless fighter first, and then bring in a bay-version later?

Chief,
NxGF is what it may looks like, the bayless fighter but having low RCS design and carrying most EW punch to reduce further, as you suggested. AZM may turn out to be the true 5th generation. However, I am only guessing in view of developments and especially Thunder Block-III progress as well validation/tests of different Techs that will help into NxGF.

 

[Silicon0000]

Speculation: I think the PAF FGFA design will be similar in concept to the KF-X. You'll notice that the launch version of the KF-X also lacks an internal bay @messiach @Oscar. The PAF seems to be more focused on getting a specific range and payload level up in the air (with a complex line of electronics) than 'stealth'. South Korea was thinking on the same lines.

Well the interesting thing is that the KF-X Block 2 will have internal bays. So, you could design for it, but to save time and cost in the near term, you can skip it. If the PAF can't get additional new F-16s or some other jet, then what other option is there to expedite Azm as a bayless fighter first, and then bring in a bay-version later?

Many are thinking that JF-17 next block will be like KFX. Some are saying Azm fighter is going to be 5+ generation and you are telling them that Azm fighter will be actually a KFX like 5- generation jet

 

[Quwa]

Many are thinking that JF-17 next block will be like KFX. Some are saying Azm fighter is going to be 5+ generation and you are telling them that Azm fighter will be actually a KFX like 5- generation jet

Let's keep expectations low. But the PAF needs this fighter, especially as the likelihood of a jet in the interim is unlikely now. Going less than 5 could also mean getting the jet sooner than later

 

[Fawad alam]

If the PAF can't get additional new F-16s

I pray that PAF will not get addition F16s and we will be forced to utilize all resources to our indigenous program, The new threat of Rafael can be our opportunity for self reliance.

 

[MIRauf]

I pray that PAF will not get addition F16s and we will be forced to utilize all resources to our indigenous program, The new threat of Rafael can be our opportunity for self reliance.

A PAF well Wisher will not say that about the PAF & F-16s.

 

[S.Y.A]

Chief,
NxGF is what it may looks like, the bayless fighter but having low RCS design and carrying most EW punch to reduce further, as you suggested. AZM may turn out to be the true 5th generation. However, I am only guessing in view of developments and especially Thunder Block-III progress as well validation/tests of different Techs that will help into NxGF.

Damn, I hope that the PAF doesnt go the JF-17 route (short range, light weight, with low load carrying capacity) with the 5th gen aircraft. need to pour everything into the program, need to make a "true" 5th gen aircraft. bayless aircraft would mean a major blunder on part of the PAF.

A PAF well Wisher will not say that about the PAF & F-16s.

More F-16s would mean more money being spent for the said F-16s. If the PAF is serious about the 5th gen plane, then it should forget about additional F-16s. upgrade the existing ones, upgrade the JF-17s, and go for SAMs as well as 5th gen jets.

 

[The Eagle]

Damn, I hope that the PAF doesnt go the JF-17 route (short range, light weight, with low load carrying capacity) with the 5th gen aircraft. need to pour everything into the program, need to make a "true" 5th gen aircraft. bayless aircraft would mean a major blunder on part of the PAF.

I did not assume a bayless, low RCS fighter as 5th Generation. NxGF & 5th Gen Azm, were two different ideas from my side. Azm will be real 5th Generation Fighter and NxGF will help bridge the gap between JF-17 Block-III and Azm.

 

[S.Y.A]

Azm will be real 5th Generation Fighter and NxGF will help bridge the gap between JF-17 Block-III and Azm.

So, essentially, a JF-17 blk 4?

 

[MIRauf]

S.Y.A, you will not likely see AZM type for another 5/6 years ( prototype. ) Then it being ist revision, you may not see the IP Units for about a decade, that is why PAF needs the F-16s. I am not trying to belittle the JF-17, what latest JF-17 can do F-16 latest can do better ( today's standard ) and PAF deserves better.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

S.Y.A, you will not likely see AZM type for another 5/6 years ( prototype. ) Then it being ist revision, you may not see the IP Units for about a decade, that is why PAF needs the F-16s. I am not trying to belittle the JF-17, what latest JF-17 can do F-16 latest can do better ( today's standard ) and PAF deserves better.

But what if US doesn't sell F-16s???What then???

 

[GreyHat]

So, from going to Super-7. Has there been any event where Pakistan approached Grumman for AZM.
If we look at it.Northtop and we were going smoothly until the Presseler Sanctions came in.So, Why not them?
- Second is that if AZM is really eyeing something of YF-23 standards, then who better than Grumman themselves. The original creators of the BLACK WIDOW

 

[messiach]

That would be a minus.

Speculation: I think the PAF FGFA design will be similar in concept to the KF-X. @messiach @Oscar.

 

[MIRauf]

Harris Ali 2140, Obama Administration had approved the request for 8, so it is very possible that US will sell to PAF, ( Block 52+ likely 72 perhaps. ) $ from Pak side is the hurdle, Pak rejected the last offer to pay full price, but at the end defense is an expensive thing but can you place $ on Freedom ?