SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

36 F-31(Chinese) in Pakistani Airforce would have been great addition would have given an extra bite to the airforce

While it may not have been a platform on par with F22 Raptor (USA) , almost 100% not

It would have still added capability and new tactics for Airforce

• With Pakistan Airforce committed to Project Azm
• And JF17 Block III

I think F-31 may not be joining Pakistani Airforce from looks of how things are rolling
Authorities seem to love projects which turn around in 8-10 years from day of ordering


Pakistan has Suprised the world with their Nuclear Program and Missile Programs , so a surprise in the Stealth Domain is only a matter of time

 

[LKJ86]

which could be the incorporation of J31 with western and TFX technologies

Impossible

 

[fatman17]

Impossible

Nothing is impossible

 

[FuturePAF]

The Chinese are committed to the J20 as their prime 4th gen aircraft and they are ensuring that this is a successful project. at this time J20 is exclusive to China only. Whilst the J31 is a project for the export market and to the Chinese understanding that PAF will be it's first customer. However as usual, the PAF will want substantial modifications to the base model. PAF did it with the F6, A5, F7PG and the JFT. With the Rafale available across the border the PAF planners need to accelerate the Project AZM which could be the incorporation of J31 with western and TFX technologies.

Basically Pakistan needs a future proof 5th generation fighter; hence the J-31 won’t be procured until it can at least on paper defeat the F-35 and Su-57. This will require cutting edge Electronics, EW, Data-links, AESA, EOTS, Weapons especially A2A, and a maintenance program that allows maximum availability with minimal maintenance; hence the need for an advancement in baked in Stealth and not RAM coating. Also, the WS-13/WS-19 engine needs to be in the GE-414 class (110-116 kn max thrust) with super-cruise and a long time between overhaul.

How far along is China in these Technologies? Which of these technologies can Pakistan source from other providers (Turkey or Europe) in the case that Chinese sub-systems are not yet mature?

 

[fatman17]

Basically Pakistan needs a future proof 5th generation fighter; hence the J-31 won’t be procured until it can at least on paper defeat the F-35 and Su-57. This will require cutting edge Electronics, EW, Data-links, AESA, EOTS, Weapons especially A2A, and a maintenance program that allows maximum availability with minimal maintenance; hence the need for an advancement in baked in Stealth and not RAM coating. Also, the WS-13/WS-19 engine needs to be in the GE-414 class (110-116 kn max thrust) with super-cruise and a long time between overhaul.

How far along is China in these Technologies? Which of these technologies can Pakistan source from other providers (Turkey or Europe) in the case that Chinese sub-systems are not yet mature?

I agree, but don't underestimate the Chinese. they are making rapid progress in engine technology as well as electronics / avionics etc.

 

[GriffinsRule]

It can't be the J-31 in its current form. PAF will wait for either the PLAAF and the PLAN to induct the aircraft first. Why should we be the sole customer for an aircraft made by a private company we had no skin in? PAF learned this the hard way as in case people forget, PLAAF was supposed to buy some 150+ JF-17s as well and it would have further reduced the cost per unit and made the aircraft perhaps even more appealing for export early on with both countries being the operators.
PLAAF and PLAN might have good reason, that are not public, for not buying the J-31 as well. First and foremost among these is perhaps the use of RD-93 in the prototypes and technology demonstrators. There is also the lack of any new prototypes or even general news coming out about the jet so its future seems very tentative.

 

[ProudPak]

Impossible

So was the fact you are alive bug there you have it

 

[LKJ86]

It can't be the J-31 in its current form. PAF will wait for either the PLAAF and the PLAN to induct the aircraft first. Why should we be the sole customer for an aircraft made by a private company we had no skin in? PAF learned this the hard way as in case people forget, PLAAF was supposed to buy some 150+ JF-17s as well and it would have further reduced the cost per unit and made the aircraft perhaps even more appealing for export early on with both countries being the operators.
PLAAF and PLAN might have good reason, that are not public, for not buying the J-31 as well. First and foremost among these is perhaps the use of RD-93 in the prototypes and technology demonstrators. There is also the lack of any new prototypes or even general news coming out about the jet so its future seems very tentative.

You pay more, and will get more.

Besides, FC-31 wasn't showed on Dubai Airshow-2019, meaning that the JV on FC-31 is impossible already, and you would find the maiden flight of the new variant very soon.

 

[GriffinsRule]

You pay more, and will get more.

Besides, FC-31 wasn't showed on Dubai Airshow-2019, meaning that the JV on FC-31 is impossible already, and you would find the maiden flight of the new variant very soon.

Exactly my point. Pakistan is not going to be purchasing any 5th generation aircraft off the shelf. That means no J-20 or J-31.
We will see collaboration with China, Turkey and any other country Pakistan can get technology, design and manufacturing expertise for the myriad of systems that go into a fighter jet and go from there in designing our next fighter.

 

[LKJ86]

We will see collaboration with China, Turkey and any other country Pakistan can get technology, design and manufacturing expertise for the myriad of systems that go into a fighter jet and go from there in designing our next fighter.

A good choice.

 

[aliyusuf]

Exactly my point. Pakistan is not going to be purchasing any 5th generation aircraft off the shelf. That means no J-20 or J-31.
We will see collaboration with China, Turkey and any other country Pakistan can get technology, design and manufacturing expertise for the myriad of systems that go into a fighter jet and go from there in designing our next fighter.

True. But in the absence of a full fledged manufacturing and support industry in our country, our first iteration of a 5th gen fighter will have to be heavily based on the existing design & technologies used in J-20/J-31/TFX/etc ... with a lots of TOT.

 

[FuturePAF]

I agree, but don't underestimate the Chinese. they are making rapid progress in engine technology as well as electronics / avionics etc.

I don’t underestimate the Chinese, but there are certain technologies others have a head start in, which China will catch up in due time. Certain Networking/Data-Link and EW tech Pakistan could buy from Turkey or Europe (especially Sweden if it is open to sell it) could enough far enough ahead that it can make the difference. Link-16 helped a lot for the Feb 27 counter-attack. We need to try to get the best tech from wherever we can, and be the best at integrating it.

 

[Ultima Thule]

True. But in the absence of a full fledged manufacturing and support industry in our country, our first iteration of a 5th gen fighter will have to be heavily based on the existing design & technologies used in J-20/J-31/TFX/etc ... with a lots of TOT.

I thinks Project AZM is more research/learning/TOT project, and you're absolute right sir, we have few experience in our hand, like we get TOT from Italy for radar of F-7PG ( Grifo-7) but biggest hurdle will be develop suitable engine for AZM, most probably it will have foreign engine

 

[LKJ86]

Certain Networking/Data-Link and EW tech

But what you may not have considered is that they are just what China is good at.

 

[FuturePAF]

But what you may not have considered is that they are just what China is good at.

It’s possible China has gotten very good at these technologies, and for Pakistan’s sake I hope they have great systems. Any indication where these systems have been battle tested and refined, similar to how the Russians have done in Syria for the last decade?