SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[Basel]

But you ...... predictably..... will not admit that JF-17 and J-10 are crap because even countries close to China like Burma, Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh and lastly Egypt and Iraq all opted for Russian warplanes like Mig-29 and SU-30s but not JF-17s and J-10s. All these countries selected to buy these Russian planes after rejecting Jf-17 and J-10.

Both planes are not crap, the reason is both still use Russian engine and China is now lagging in engine tech, when China started fielding its jet with its own developed and build quality engines there will be different story of selling those jets.

 

[Yeti]

there are many jets that might as well wont see any action.this wont make em any less potent.

But we do not really know how 'potent' they are that is my point yes the fighter might have a real 5th gen design with stealth features which you would like to believe would give it a edge but there is no certainty it can win everytime. Only when this bird has matured enough and has taken part in some air exercises can we start to understand it's dynamics.

 

[Max Pain]

But we do not really know how 'potent' they are that is my point yes the fighter might have a real 5th gen design with stealth features which you would like to believe would give it a edge but there is no certainty it can win everytime. Only when this bird has matured enough and has taken part in some air exercises can we start to understand it's dynamics.

the same holds true for even the aircrafts that have seen combat action.
There is no certainty that any aircraft will win every time.

 

[Yeti]

Both planes are not crap, the reason is both still use Russian engine and China is now lagging in engine tech, when China started fielding its jet with its own developed and build quality engines there will be different story of selling those jets.

I believe Egypt opted for the MIG35 which is a upgraded bird and now has smokeless engines and some 5th gen features.

 

[AMDR]

when did that happen? a month ago I presume.

You are correct sir, September 23
U.S. Military Releases Video Of F-22 Strike Against ISIS - Yahoo News

Waiting to see J-31 drop munitions, I haven't seen any testing pictures yet. Will be interesting the new ground attack weapons the Chinese develop for j-31

 

[Basel]

@Max Pain J-31 will be more expensive then stealthy JF-17, and even after induction of few squadrons of J-31 PAF will still need a stealthy work horse which can break through Indian air defense castle which is very well guarded now.

 

[Yeti]

the same holds true for even the aircrafts that have seen combat action.
There is no certainty that any aircraft will win every time.

That is true as force multipliers play a big role in todays conflict

 

[Basel]

I believe Egypt opted for the MIG35 which is a upgraded bird and now has smokeless engines and some 5th gen features.

China also can offer J-10B with AESA and 5th gen tech but it is still flying with Russian engine and Chinese engine is not available for export that is why China is not being able to sell its new birds till now.

 

[Max Pain]

@Max Pain J-31 will be more expensive the a stealthy JF-17, and even after induction of few squadrons of J-31 PAF will still need a stealthy work horse which can break through Indian air defense castle which is very well guarded now.

a stealthy JF-17 is quite hypothetical to be honest,that would require some huge R&D infrastructure, as time passes the higher share of JF-17 project will be in Pakistan's hands, we just cant develop a stealth technology, it really sophisticated.
the best chance we have is that once we receive some J-31's we might get to know some ins and outs of Stealth technology and we somehow incorporate it in some God knows what block of JF-17.

its just a hypothetical scenario.

 

[Yeti]

China also can offer J-10B with AESA and 5th gen tech but it is still flying with Russian engine and Chinese engine is not available for export that is why China is not being able to sell its new birds till now.

China's is a newcomer in the AESA business and the yanks are streets ahead and I believe the Russians are also with the SU35 which the Chinese are keen to get their hands on. Again we do not know how good the J10B AESA is.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

No my logic states this plane remains untested! it has neither taken part in any air war game to judge it's character! so until it actually does it will always remain a fighter which will be mysterious regardless of it's so called 5th gen features and design.

J-31 was designed base on the 5th gen design concept and requirement such as stealthyness, none a fresh new design fighter have combat experience especially when it's still at the development stage, but with the physical caracteristcs such speed, turn rate, climb rate...radar cross section on the spec sheet...any experienced fighter pilot can still judge if the aircraft is still up for the task that they're asking even before put it into real combat.

 

[Gandhara]

including combat proven one thing we should also look into
from which legacy the fighter is coming

rafale comes from legacy of mirage
f-22/35 comes from legacy of famous teens
pak fa comes from legacy of sukhois

j-31/j-20 from sukhoi legacy copies j-11/12/15/16 or j-7/j-10???
j-10 comes from lavi design
jf-17 comes from mig-33 design
both of above don't use chinese engines

 

[Yeti]

It’s too early to tell the true status of the Chinese AESA program,” says a Washington-based intelligence official. “We’ve seen lots of press and air show information on the program, but that doesn’t automatically translate into a robust development or give us an accurate look at where [China] is as far as fielding one anytime soon.
“Like the [high-performance] engine, it’ll be a challenge to take the step from older radars to one designed for a fifth-generation fighter,” he says. “Again, though, the J-20 is just the first or second—depending on whom you believe—prototype in a very long development program.”


China’s Stealth Aircraft Program Will Face Advanced Defenses | AWIN content from Aviation Week

 

[Basel]

a stealthy JF-17 is quite hypothetical to be honest,that would require some huge R&D infrastructure, as time passes the higher share of JF-17 project will be in Pakistan's hands, we just cant develop a stealth technology, it really sophisticated.
the best chance we have is that once we receive some J-31's we might get to know some ins and outs of Stealth technology and we somehow incorporate it in some God knows what block of JF-17.
its just a hypothetical scenario.

A stealthy version of JF-17 is much more feasible for PAF then going for 5th gen jet now CAC have all the 5th gen tech and they can build stealthy version of JF-17. CAC will also offer its 5th gen to PAF as they will not want to lose their client to SAC.

If you remember CAC beat SAC with their J-20 project for PLAAF 5th gen plane requirements, that competition is also on when it comes to offer jets to PAF.

China-Pak in MoU to Develop Variant on JF-17 Thunder
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China-Pak in MoU to Develop Stealth Variant of JF-17 Thunder | ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

 

[Spy Master]

India eventually would have a fleet of 800+ aircraft compose of 4.5 and 4.5++ and fifth generation fighter to counter this future threat Pakistan should have a good number of J-31 along with other option would be available after 2020 like TFX KFX etc . if Pakistan can manage to induct 100 J-31 along with 250+ JF-17 and 100+ F-16 and other option i think enough to counter the invading Indian air force considering Pakistani pilots quality and home grounds advantage as the will be supported by the Air defense network .

800 of 4++ generation? may be in 2050...