Saab pitches for joint development of Sea Gripen fighter jets

[MilSpec]

May be a good time for a TATA to acquire SAAB.

 

[Abingdonboy]

No thanks.Anyway good luck with hiring paid journalists to bad mouth LCA program though

An interesting fact I learnt the other day when discussing this with my friend who works in the international defence industry for a rival firm to SAAB- SAAB spends the MOST of any orginal MMRCA contender on "advertising" in India despite having failed to be "downselected". Whilst Boeing and LM bascially pulled out their teams deployed to sell the F-18 and F-16 to India and the EFT consortium closed down their office in Delhi- SAAB has kept the same number of staff and expenditure trying to get the Gripen sold to India. Is it any wonder we keep hearing BS from SAAB from time to time, the defence industry is notoriously cut throat and when we keep hearing these "pro x, bash y" articles we should question the motives.

Even Dassualt only has a very modest presence in India and virtually no advertising campaign for the Indian market vis a vis the Rafale.

@FrenchPilot @Taygibay @PARIKRAMA @anant_s

 

[Capt.Popeye]

IN will certainly consider Rafale M for INS Vishal. In future, there is a great posdibility of LCA N & Rafale M serving together for IN.

@FrenchPilot

We should not be surprised to see the Rafale M with IN going forward. Once the design of the CATOBAR Carrier(s) are frozen, a mix of Rafale Ms and N-LCAs alongside Hawkyes will make up their air-wings. By that time, the third tranche of Rafales will have entered IAF service.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@Taygibay @The_Sidewinder @gslv mk3 @PARIKRAMA @knight11 @Ankit Kumar

Just tellin' you guys that if you're struggling with the Tejas,we have some Rafale M.
Why looking after these Swedes.
-
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In my humble opinion,iac2 class will see either Rafale M or F35.. Or may be both depending upon conditions..

LCA naval I believe would be arming IAC1 class.. I doubt seeing them in IAC2 class but you never know..

@FrenchPilot
You know my love for Rafale.. Gripen is a hottie who wants me to go out with her on a "date"..
But then m committed to Rafale

 

[Spectre]

May be a good time for a TATA to acquire SAAB.

Not so much of a crazy concept. I admire cajones Tata has, purchasing Corus and JLR both of which were many multiples larger than the corresponding Tata enterprises.

However for Tata's to go for SAAB there has to be an opening in terms of future demand for Gripen which i just don't see. Far more sense to collaborate with Russians : S-400, French: Rafale - offset or Americans - Artillery Stuff.

Rather than the complete but very expensive and over valued product we need critical but missing tech which private sector can acquire through JV, M&A etc

 

[PARIKRAMA]

May be a good time for a TATA to acquire SAAB.

you sir, has just given tata mgmt the best M&A tip of the year

 

[Abingdonboy]

In short

• Saab has done "Research" for "modifications" to make Sea Gripen
• Saab wants India to buy Sea Gripen with full TOT and use the often diplomatic term "Collaborate"
• Saab says "there is a cost to everything but it can be an investment (meaning i bring tech you bring everything else.. so open your bank balance for me !!!)
• Saab says export potential there (Thailand.. my god i did nt knew that they needed sea gripen - a paper concept)

It doesn't even seem like SAAB's primary target is the Rafale anymore, they seem to have accepted that is a lost cause for them. They are now trying very hard to kill off the LCA and N-LCA, particuarly the MK.2. Perhaps they have got a whiff of how much the IAF/IN/MoD are going to commit to the Mk.2 (>150 units). With any anti-LCA articles that comes out, there will only be ONE beneficiary and it won't be Boeing, Dassualt, MIG or the EFT consortium.

We should not be surprised to see the Rafale M with IN going forward. Once the design of the CATOBAR Carrier(s) are frozen, a mix of Rafale Ms and N-LCAs alongside Hawkyes will make up their air-wings. By that time, the third tranche of Rafales will have entered IAF service.

N-LCA on the IN's CATOBAR carriers? This would require some modifications as the N-LCA is right now only being designed to operate from STOBAR carriers.

 

[kaykay]

No thanks.Anyway good luck with hiring paid journalists to bad mouth LCA program though

lol very well said. Guess what, there's no shortage of Ajai Shuklas in India...lol

 

[Abingdonboy]

May be a good time for a TATA to acquire SAAB.

I think @Spectre is rigt sir, where is the demand for the Gripen? There certainly isn't any in the Indian market so why would TATA be interested? Much of the key technologies (radar and engine) are not SAAB's design so such an acqusition would not provide the TATA group with any huge technological gain.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

It doesn't even seem like SAAB's primary target is the Rafale anymore, they seem to have accepted that is a lost cause for them. They are now trying very hard to kill off the LCA and N-LCA, particuarly the MK.2. Perhaps they have got a whiff of how much the IAF/IN/MoD are going to commit to the Mk.2 (>150 units). With any anti-LCA articles that comes out, there will only be ONE beneficiary and it won't be Boeing, Dassualt, MIG or the EFT consortium.


N-LCA on the IN's CATOBAR carriers? This would require some modifications as the N-LCA is right now only being designed to operate from STOBAR carriers.

Saab is daydreaming building El Dorado with the killing of LCA program for sure.. It's advt glitz co tinues for everything including naval variants or mk2 stuff

But then folks have become more wiser over the years and see what's they are aiming for in the guise of TOT and MII

 

[Capt.Popeye]

In my humble opinion,iac2 class will see either Rafale M or F35.. Or may be both depending upon conditions..

LCA naval I believe would be arming IAC1 class.. I doubt seeing them in IAC2 class but you never know..

@FrenchPilot
You know my love for Rafale.. Gripen is a hottie who wants me to go out with her on a "date"..
But then m committed to Rafale

Incidentally, there is little enthusiasm visible in the IN for the F35. They are not too keen to snag an aircraft that will eat up most of their CAPEX budget.

N-LCA on the IN's CATOBAR carriers? This would require some modifications as the N-LCA is right now only being designed to operate from STOBAR carriers.

Not much modification, only on the nose-gear at that.

 

[Abingdonboy]

But then folks have become more wiser over the years and see what's they are aiming for in the guise of TOT and MII

Exactly, they are presenting what seems like an incredible deal- until you actually consider the potential victims ie the LCA program and that is simply too big a price to pay, even if SAAB was offering Gripen's at 80% off it would not be in India' long term interest to purchase them.

+ The hilarious part of the SAAB offer is they are trying to dupe the media/public with this "collaboration/ToT" rhetoric but what IPRs do they own for the Gripen? They certainly have no ability to provide ToT on the AESA Radar or powerplant which are the two key areas on any plane and the only two areas HAL/ADA would be interested in- HAL knows very well how to produce an advanced airframe these days. It is all a con from SAAB.

 

[Vergennes]

I don't really know how accurate this,is. @Abingdonboy

 

[Abingdonboy]

I don't really know how accurate this,is. @Abingdonboy
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You're a mind reader my friend! I was literally moments away from posting this to illustrate the folly the would be SAAB's offer.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Exactly, they are presenting what seems like an incredible deal- until you actually consider the potential victims ie the LCA program and that is simply too big a price to pay, even if SAAB was offering Gripen's at 80% off it would not be in India' long term interest to purchase them.

+ The hilarious part of the SAAB offer is they are trying to dupe the media/public with this "collaboration/ToT" rhetoric but what IPRs do they own for the Gripen? They certainly have no ability to provide ToT on the AESA Radar or powerplant which are the two key areas on any plane and the only two areas HAL/ADA would be interested in- HAL knows very well how to produce an advanced airframe these days. It is all a con from SAAB.

Essentially to a layman Saab is a lead integrator of technologies procured from various places. The successful part is that Gripen was able to do that and built on the success of such integration. If USA tomo tightens the GE engine norms under any prentence we may potentially see SAAB without a heart.. It's good that USA has not done that and that's why INdia is an imp market as such a market order kind of counter guarantees their rest of their work.. Especially as engine barring to India is potentially not possible for next decade unless geo political situation changes very very drastically...

To me I think Saab wants investment returns for Gripen NG and is looking at some cash cow to milk and return with profit to the investors.. That kind of secures the management investment fortunes..

@FrenchPilot you have given a true visualisation to what I just posted

 

[Abingdonboy]

I don't really know how accurate this,is. @Abingdonboy
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Judging by this picture the only really useful ToT for India would be on the......? Perhaps the Radome as HAL is importing a Quartz crystal one from Cobham for the LCA MK.1 as it stands. Everything else Swedish (I am going to assume are devloped/owned by SAAB- correct me if I am wrong) on the Gripen- EW systems, FCS, Electronic displays, Data Link and Servos are made/devloped in India RIGHT NOW by Indian firms- HAL, BEL, Samtal etc for the LCA, Jaguar, MKI, ALH, LCH, LUH, MiG-29UPGs, etc etc

And as I have already mentioned the Radar on the Gripen NG (Vixen) is not SAAB's product.

So killing off the LCA project for some ToT for Radomes, does this sound like a worthwhile propostion to anyone? Anyone???

@anant_s @MilSpec @Aminroop @Water Car Engineer @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @PARIKRAMA @FrenchPilot


Please remember these facts the next time you read "SAAB offereing ToT/Collaboration/JV to make the Gripen in India" - it is an entirely meaningless offer.