What's new

Saab Gripen ‘Rips Apart’ Chinese J-11 Fighters In War Games; Experts Call Them ‘Sitting Ducks’ For Rafales

Status
Not open for further replies.
So basically the chinese were at top in WVR combat but lost in BVR. In BVR it was mostly AMRAAM against PL12, and we know AMRAAM outranges PL12. What will happen if same exercise conducted with J11s armed with PL15.
Also note the WVR missile wad PL8 and not PL10.
 
.
As much as I'd like to believe in this news, the source is very questionable and in other places, it's made useless and baseless claims. Please post a more authentic source and preferably the host nation's brief on the exercise. Thanks

Please translate.......thanks

They merely say that J-11A(a.k.a the original Su-27 with Russia radar and missiles) defeat Gripen by 25-1 in close combat/dog fight but lose the Gripen to 9-41 in BVR fights.

Its basically a fact that Su-27 with its 1980 era radar can barely perform BVR fights, but I am quite surprised by its dominating performance in close combat, so basically the 1980 era Su-27 has good airframe and aerodynamics but sucks at electronics and radars as expected.
 
. .
They merely say that J-11A(a.k.a the original Su-27 with Russia radar and missiles) defeat Gripen by 25-1 in close combat/dog fight but lose the Gripen to 9-41 in BVR fights.

Its basically a fact that Su-27 with its 1980 era radar can barely perform BVR fights, but I am quite surprised by its dominating performance in close combat, so basically the 1980 era Su-27 has good airframe and aerodynamics but sucks at electronics and radars as expected.

Understood and thanks. I am really interested in reading about Gripen vs. J-10C. Do you (or anyone reading it) can provide post exercise brief on J-10C's performance vs. Gripen C/D?
 
.
Understood and thanks. I am really interested in reading about Gripen vs. J-10C. Do you (or anyone reading it) can provide post exercise brief on J-10C's performance vs. Gripen C/D?

PLA seldomly release such results to public, but rumors in China claim both J-10A/C beat Thailand's Gripen very easily, in the case of J-10C it is extremely one-sided.

Actually Thai airforce hinted the media they defeated PLAAF's J-11A/Su-27 almost immediately after the excerises, but leave no details about their match-up against J-10A and the most recent J-10C.
 
. .
Modi and IAF are fools for not accepting/grabbing the F-21 offer with both hands.

But IAF won't take the offer because

If IAF loses an SU-30MKI to a PAF F-16 they could blame it on the Russian Hardware but

If IAF loses an F-21 to a PAF-F-16 then IAF's pilot skills or lack thereof would be exposed.
I think it's more likely that the US arms dealers are too powerful and Indian officials can't get enough kickbacks from the deals. And the French are famous for this.
 
.
So basically the chinese were at top in WVR combat but lost in BVR. In BVR it was mostly AMRAAM against PL12, and we know AMRAAM outranges PL12. What will happen if same exercise conducted with J11s armed with PL15.
Also note the WVR missile wad PL8 and not PL10.
The J11As in the excercese were the oldest batch of SU-27SK assembled in the late 90s, which does not have PL12, but some Russian missiles guided by Russian N001 radar. ( We intentionally send the old jets for some specific purpose, possibly to gain some parameters of the Western jet using old equipment).
PL12 started to be equipped on J11Bs, which use the Chinese type 1474 fire control radar.

BTW, why the indians get so wet on this 6 year old 'news'? And how many French rafales indian has got now? Since a couple of rafales can make indians so wet, France should use their rafales to rule the universe by now... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
Last edited:
.
I think it's more likely that the US arms dealers are too powerful and Indian officials can't get enough kickbacks from the deals. And the French are famous for this.

Both French and Indians are famous for corruption.
 
.
Only this much. Don't you have to say anythi



We don’t give any shit.


We already did in Galwan.


Our military did that.


No superiority of F16 died on 27th Feb.
You know that you are lying hahahahh....that feeling lolz
 
.
A “dogfight” between Saab Gripen and the Chinese J-11 fighter jets game provides lessons to militaries around the world on how to get the better of Chinese warplanes.


Details of the Exercise Falcon Strike 2015, held at Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base for two weeks in mid-November 2015, the first-ever joint exercise between the Chinese and Thai air forces, were revealed in 2019.

While the Chinese PLA Air Force (PLAAF) brought J-11 to the wargame, the Thai Air Force deployed Swedish Saab JAS-39C/D Gripens, though it also operates the American F-16s.

What astounded the military experts is that a 25-year-old fighter overpowered the relatively younger Chinese J-11 aircraft especially during the beyond-visual-range (BVR) engagements.


This humiliating defeat by the Gripens exposed the reality of China’s air-warfare capabilities, with experts commenting on J-11s not having a chance against the muc advanced Rafales that the Indian Air Force is operating.

The Saab JAS 39 Gripen is a Swedish fourth-generation single-engine multirole fighter jet that took its first flight in 1988 and entered service in 1996. With a speed of Mach 2, the Gripens have been sold to six nations across Central Europe, South Africa, and Southeast Asia.

The C/D model that the Thailand Air Force operates, is a NATO-compatible version with extended capabilities in terms of armament, electronics, etc. which can be also refueled in flight.
On the other hand, China’s J-11 fighter is based on the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27. The J-11 is a twin-engine jet that took its first flight in 1998.


A Thai Royal Air Force Saab Gripen. (via Gripen News)


With its multiple variants and upgrades like the missile approach warning system (MAWS), the improved cockpit displays, and fire control systems for R-77 or PL-10 missiles, the J-11s have become a significant part of the Chinese Air Force with more than 400 in service while the Navy operates around 70 of the fighters.
The EurAsian Times earlier reported how China is continuing research and development of the J-11 fighter, which might affect the future of its J-10 aircraft.

SAAB Gripens Destroy Chinese J-11s

Across seven days of the exercise, the Chinese jets gave a subpar performance, leading many analysts to cast doubts over China’s aerial capabilities.
During the first two days of the war game, the powerful J-11s shot down 16 Gripens in a visual-range battle with no loss.

Reports suggest that the Thai Gripen was armed with AIM-9 infrared-guided missiles and an internal cannon for close-range combat while the J-11s were armed with infrared-guided short-range missiles — the PL-8s.


A PLAAF J-11 flying from an airbase in western China, in February 2018. (via Twitter)


However, on the following days, as the game shifted to beyond-visual-range engagements, the Gripen armed with AIM-120 medium-range missiles proved to be a far better fighter than the J-11 with its own medium-range missiles, possibly PL-12s.
The Gripens shot down a total of 41 Chinese J-11s at a loss of six fighters. The final tally after the completion of seven days stood in favor of the Swedish fighters as it shot down 42 J-11s at a loss of 34 only.
Interestingly, military analysts observed that Gripens outperformed the J-11s in terms of the range given how 88% of the Thai kills occurred at a range of at least 19 miles, while the Chinese scored just 14% of their kills at the same range.
The Gripens also scored 10 kills at a distance of more than 31 miles where the J-11s scored no kills. The Aviation website Alert 5 noted how the Chinese pilots had poor situational awareness.

“Too much focus was on the front of the aircraft rather than all around. In phases of the war game where J-11s escorted other planes, there was a lack of coordination,” the website said.
“Chinese pilots were not experienced in avoiding missile shots, their responses were too mechanical and [they] could not judge correctly the evasive techniques for missiles with different ranges,” Alert 5 added.

India Rafales

The struggle of Chinese jets against the fourth-generation Gripen has thrilled Indian military analysts given the Indian Air Force now hosts two squadrons of the 4.5 generation French-made Rafales.

India’s Rafale fighter jets


Amid the ongoing standoff between India and China at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh, experts have started speculating how Indian Rafales will fare against the Chinese aircraft, especially with their fifth-generation J-20.

Just pure nonsense.
 
. .
So basically the chinese were at top in WVR combat but lost in BVR. In BVR it was mostly AMRAAM against PL12, and we know AMRAAM outranges PL12. What will happen if same exercise conducted with J11s armed with PL15.
Also note the WVR missile wad PL8 and not PL10.

Nope, no PL-12 on J-11A in Thailand. Just the Russian R-77.

The PL-12 in the article is mis-information. The Chinese pilot Li Zhonghua who detailed the exercise at the Shaanxi college stated RVV-AE was outranged by AMRAAM and also could fire only one at a time versus 4 rapid fire AMRAAMs.
 
.
That article is not written by me.

Yes and the article also says J-11A won and beat the Gripen C in WVR dogfight.

How can non-BVR 1990s fighter with old R-77 beat 2000s Gripen C with AIM-120? Of course the BVR fight is worthless comparison. We don't use J-11A for BVR. We have J-11B, J-10A B C, J-16, J-20 for BVR.

So basically your article linked proves PLAAF is better in dogfighting than Thai airforce using Gripen. J-11A is even in PLAAF not even close to being the best dogfighter. Next time read more than just the title and you will see better details.

I'm sure F-16A would lose in BVR against something like J-10A. F-16A is not capable of full BVR like J-11A. Radar guidance is hopeless even for medium range missiles at useful range.
 
.
Nope, no PL-12 on J-11A in Thailand. Just the Russian R-77.

The PL-12 in the article is mis-information. The Chinese pilot Li Zhonghua who detailed the exercise at the Shaanxi college stated RVV-AE was outranged by AMRAAM and also could fire only one at a time versus 4 rapid fire AMRAAMs.
The PLAAF basically used an older and one of its oldest aircraft, old outdated Russian AA missiles and took a handicap to simulate an airforce similar to Vietnam engaging the Thai Airforce. But the trolls wont care and continue dabbling on and knowingly parotting lies to fuel their inferiority complex over China.
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom