S-400: Pakistan Faces Major Asymmetric Threat

[Alpha BeeTee]

the level of IQ and debate on this forum is appalling, little kids running around ( from both sides ) and crying ' my weener is bigger ' on top of their voices,

has any one even attempted to read about the s 400 and the geo politics behind it?




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what is the s 400 :-

in essence, a deep modernization of the s 300PMU . think of it like the T 90 ( vs the T 72 ) . same tank , better armor, new optics and guns , new ERA , nothing revolutionary though . the Russians are known to pull such marketing.

technical material is abound on the internet regarding the s 400 , esp karlo copp from ausairpower.com . i wont touch the nitty gritty , yet , the S 400 is one potent system . a combination of very powerful scan and pencil beam radars, ( track and acquire ) , and very powerful missiles + mobility on wheels make this a game changer silver spoon in any geo political conflict .

to put in a comparison, lets compare the s 400 with a system like crotale / HQ 2 which we have;-

the crotale is like a medium built athlete with a javelin, the medium body man can only 'hurl' that javelin to a certain height before gravity catches it .

the s 400 is like a GIANT with a huge bow and arrow. his shots are much more kinetic ( and longer range ) .
and yes, he can do that simultaneously for a dozen targets

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implication for pak :-

india already had the S 300 so this wont be rattling the PAF much , though S 400 missile is much longer range ( and potent )

although the system is mobile, we have seen the s 400 deployed mostly on 'sentry' duties in fixed emplacements / berms ( eg syria etc ) . my take is, indians would deploy them in rear areas on strategic bases like pathankot or even behind ( covering New delhi , mumbai ) to fend off a ballistic missile strike from pak .

make no mistake, where ever s 400 was deployed, nato dared not venture close

this also takes us to another conclusion that the deployment of such systems is now increasing making regular conflicts a thing of the past and intelligent nations are now switching to more 'irregular' modes of conflicts aka hybrid warfare. for the cost of one s 400 battery , indians could have trained an entire division of irregulars who could have created mayham in balochistan, the s 400 on the other hand, would hopefully , sit on a berm and the crew would relax all day never firing a shot sans training rounds .

gun for a gun, indians would hope to drag pakistan in a 'weiner is bigger' arms race ( knowing the state of our economy ) , while i hope that GHQ is sane enough to realize the folly of such a thing and look for ' alternatives' to pin indians down elsewhere,


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DCS simulation, how an attack on a s 300 would play out

GHQ has been too busy managing the internal polictics of the country..jarnails don't have the time nor capability to launch effective out of the box solution to this threat which has dawned upon us. There's no short term or military solution to this museebat. That is the bitter truth.

 

[CriticalThought]

GHQ has been too busy managing the internal polictics of the country..jarnails don't have the time nor capability to launch effective out of the box solution to this threat which has dawned upon us. There's no short term or military solution to this museebat. That is the bitter truth.

Well, to be completely fair, if the jernails had pocket money like their Indian counterparts, they would also be on a buying spree. It's not as if the Indians made the S-400 by themselves.

But where this country has been stabbed in the back is the years upon years of total neglect in the areas of electronics, radar, and signal processing. Yes, we have a signals branch, but we don't have any expertise in semi-conductors, stealth, latest developments in radar antenna and receiver, latest techniques of signal processing etc. This is comparable to the situation where ZAB had not started the nuclear program. This neglect is traitorous. And it is compounded by the fact that day in and day out all branches of military work with electronics. They know first hand how they need to go outside Pakistan to acquire night vision sights, heat seeking warheads, radars etc. And it is unforgivable if they don't understand how much prone to EW modern electronics are. If you haven't designed and produced a microchip by yourself, you cannot trust your safety to it. And here I have posted on this forum a picture of Windows XP being used in the central command and control air defence centre of Pakistan. The guys sitting monitoring our borders are relying on Microsoft Windows XP!!!

I rest my case.

@Oscar

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

Well, to be completely fair, if the jernails had pocket money like their Indian counterparts, they would also be on a buying spree. It's not as if the Indians made the S-400 by themselves.

But where this country has been stabbed in the back is the years upon years of total neglect in the areas of electronics, radar, and signal processing. Yes, we have a signals branch, but we don't have any expertise in semi-conductors, stealth, latest developments in radar antenna and receiver, latest techniques of signal processing etc. This is comparable to the situation where ZAB had not started the nuclear program. This neglect is traitorous. And it is compounded by the fact that day in and day out all branches of military work with electronics. They know first hand how they need to go outside Pakistan to acquire night vision sights, heat seeking warheads, radars etc. And it is unforgivable if they don't understand how much prone to EW modern electronics are. If you haven't designed and produced a microchip by yourself, you cannot trust your safety to it. And here I have posted on this forum a picture of Windows XP being used in the central command and control air defence centre of Pakistan. The guys sitting monitoring our borders are relying on Microsoft Windows XP!!!

I rest my case.

@Oscar

That's the problem. We have neglected science, tech and engineering for so long. Now we're seeing the consequences. We are atleast 30 to 40 years behind.
I bet the C4I guys will be using Windows XP too with Avast antivirus.

 

[danger007]

This is certainly a blessing, as two of Pakistan's real allies and brothers (China and Turkey) will also possess S-400 so we can learn a lot about this system from them. This S-400 certainly posse a big challenge for Pakistan, but it is not the end of the world and eventually, counter strategies will be developed over time. For the future Pakistan should learn from Turkey and try to learn from HISAR-U system.

I really doubt that... friendship is different but most of countries reluctant to share intel on such system.. might have special bond between two states, but there are limitations... especially with chinese.

 

[blueazure]

I really doubt that... friendship is different but most of countries reluctant to share intel on such system.. might have special bond between two states, but there are limitations... especially with chinese.

pakistan has complete access to Chinese HQ 10's ( based on the s 300) and has practiced on them

turkey has given us access to their radar and air craft manufacturing facilities

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[danger007]

pakistan has complete access to Chinese HQ 10's ( based on the s 300) and has practiced on them

turkey has given us access to their radar and air craft manufacturing facilities

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Claim tall without valid proof.. when you are intend to purchase a product they will let you seek more info..but we are talking about a product which was purchased from another country.. allowing you to look at product is something but disclosing sensitive info is different thing..

 

[cabatli_53]

When is Turkey receiving their S-400s?

Delivery schedule !

2019- S-400
2020-Hisar-A Low Altitude
2020-Hisar-O Medium Altitude
2020/21-Hisar-O+/N/G/G+ Medium range, Medium/Long altitude
2022-Hisar-U Long range long altitude

 

[Oldman1]

Probably need stealth aircraft, heavy jamming and long range cruise missiles or glide bombs.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Probably need stealth aircraft, heavy jamming and long range cruise missiles or glide bombs.

heavy jamming devices can be taken out by passive anti radiation guided munitions.

 

[blueazure]

Claim tall without valid proof.. when you are intend to purchase a product they will let you seek more info..but we are talking about a product which was purchased from another country.. allowing you to look at product is something but disclosing sensitive info is different thing..

LOL

typical monkey post

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[randomradio]

Delivery schedule !

2019- S-400
2020-Hisar-A Low Altitude
2020-Hisar-O Medium Altitude
2020/21-Hisar-O+/N/G/G+ Medium range, Medium/Long altitude
2022-Hisar-U Long range long altitude

Are the specs for the Hisar SAMs available?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Plan is ready , Close proximity Jamming Apparatus.
Mission Commander : Major Kabutar

 

[dBSPL]

Due to the Turkey's own circumstances, will buy highly customized systems. For example, It will have a different IFF system and a tactical network. Turkey and Russia trying to overcome some huge technical challenges for the supply.

As far as I know, there are no such difficulties for India. Will be operate with standard export models and standard battalion layout. In other words, beyond the legal measures that Russia will take in transferring critical informations, there are also technical difficulties.

 

[khanasifm]

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/1.5009222

 

[SecularNationalist]

so if there is no alternative for S-400 system then ho w we will achieve balance? Also if china does not have S-400 then it,s bad news for them as well.
But still india will think thrice about starting a war because of the cruise missiles we have.Even if few managed to land on indian soil ,the indian economy will be destroyed and will result in millions of deaths.