S-400 : A silver bullet for IAF air defence systems?

[Myth_buster_1]

Air Defence systems are most over rated thing. But please continue to believe the big fat lie. You would see yourself what will happen if you mess with us again. S-400 won't stop a thing.

Make sence. I agree with your premise. to learn more I would like to debate this a bit further. I see that these s-400s provide an offensive punch inside paksitan to say a 100 kms Unit deployed 100 kms in India can attack targets 100km inside Pakistan.

I say this because The Chinese surveillance radars pakistan uses and awacs provide us similar surveillance capabilities so it’s mostly about the Indian offensive punch.

a swarm of say 15 wj-700 armed with stand-off anti radiation missiles or Babar armed with anti radiation seekers will set India back 5 billion. If we take say three out of 5 this will create significant gaps in Indian air defence. The cost of a 100 baburs or a 50 wj-700 is much cheaper.

this is the problem with air defence it reduces ones options , this is why the usa has invests significantly in fighters and pilot training as opposed to fixed air defenses. Why should we not focus on all types of drones instead of air Defence systems beyond medium range. What did india achieve with its s-300 in Kashmir On feb 27

k

I am not an expert in anyway I just like to give my opinion with some logic.
SAMs operate with radar and radar can only utilize its max range against aircraft at certain altitude because of earth curvature (however once locked in the missile will not rely on ground radar but its own to home in the target). thats why AWACS are more effective at providing better coverage then ground radar with same range and because of their altitude they can peak over the curvature and cover the blind spot that ground radar can not cover.
S-400 is a huge threat but it is also being over hyped by west so it could justify trillions of dollars in more weapons.
Only a next generation counter measures such as decoys that mimics RCS of a fighter jet or jammers that fools radar guided missile in to believing the actual target is 50-100 feet away. Chaff and Flares will not be as effective as against early generation SAMs as latest ones which were designed with current counter measures in mind.
I like the idea of cruise missile packed with swarm drones to take out SAMs.. infact next gen cruise missiles would carry more then just warheads like electronic warfare, mini drones, etc.

 

[Aslan]

As the General pointed out that when China acquired the system, some Indian Two Star Officer was of the opinion that it will not be so effective against India but now that India is acquiring it, it suddenly becomes a war winner.....the claimed range also seems to be exaggerated and above all it's not battle tested.
Nothing that some decent cruise missile will not be able to counter effectively.

First there was the supa dopa vedic SU30MKI the flying one plane army, all in one the dance around the mizzile lightning bolt (hope I didnt miss something out), then PAF happened to it.

Then came the raphael guru, and now there is the mighty 400.

They way they are hyping uncle raphaleo, and 400 it seems like 9 of those and just one of these would be enough to not only destroy all of PAF, but the entire Pak army, and navy including the subs.

 

[Ghessan]

i don't understand why they come up with such posts, does not it seems how obsessed are they with Pakistan.
look at this man: he chose a video and then chose some other stuff from the internet and call it "his research" wow and spread all the trash over here one by one. Can anyone tell what is actually the purpose behind it?
what i understand is they cannot live with out insult and humiliation, it is like their daily dosage.

 

[khanmubashir]

Earth has a curvature meaning a plane flying at low altitude will not be detected from Max range of 600 km.
S-400 is more effective at max range against high alt slow moving targets such as AWACS or aerial refueling aircrafts.

View attachment 714451

General also said it ain't battle tested

 

[The Maverick]

The purpose of the thread was to discuss pakistan options in overcoming a system.that incorporates hundreds of missles,some of which travel at mach 15 and multiple radars. that arrives in 8 months time.

since you don't have f35 or typhoon or late model teens what tactics you may choose using your thunders mirages against a Russian design missle system.for overcoming fifth gen fighters.

nobody said it's invincible I left that to the 5 y tube clips from pakistan general's usa think tanks .

what it had told me your awacs are sitting ducks at 400km rendering them.far less effective they are slow and large
and fighter planes can be tracked anywhere in pakistan due to pal.having no strategic depth.

you will.find solution but will need more than what you have now for sure .

one off skirmish is ok in 27th fighting s,full. scale war is different

The purpose of the thread was to discuss pakistan options in overcoming a system.that incorporates hundreds of missles,some of which travel at mach 15 and multiple radars. that arrives in 8 months time.

since you don't have f35 or typhoon or late model teens what tactics you may choose using your thunders mirages against a Russian design missle system.for overcoming fifth gen fighters.

nobody said it's invincible I left that to the 5 y tube clips from pakistan general's usa think tanks .

what it had told me your awacs are sitting ducks at 400km rendering them.far less effective they are slow and large
and fighter planes can be tracked anywhere in pakistan due to pak having no strategic depth.

you will.find solution but will need more than what you have now for sure .

one off skirmish is ok in 27th fighting s,full. scale war is different

the chinease brought this for a reason they could have retained their own system.only.
turkey risked everything to get s400.
India was offered patriot 3 and f35 but said no we want s400.
Saudi can afford any system.it wants always buts the best ie f15 silent eagle typhoon ..it chose s400
they chose this because it' probably the best ballistic missle defense system.in the world at present at a guess
but hey it's not proven so it don't count

 

[Khan vilatey]

The purpose of the thread was to discuss pakistan options in overcoming a system.that incorporates hundreds of missles,some of which travel at mach 15 and multiple radars. that arrives in 8 months time.

since you don't have f35 or typhoon or late model teens what tactics you may choose using your thunders mirages against a Russian design missle system.for overcoming fifth gen fighters.

nobody said it's invincible I left that to the 5 y tube clips from pakistan general's usa think tanks .

what it had told me your awacs are sitting ducks at 400km rendering them.far less effective they are slow and large
and fighter planes can be tracked anywhere in pakistan due to pal.having no strategic depth.

you will.find solution but will need more than what you have now for sure .

one off skirmish is ok in 27th fighting s,full. scale war is different


the chinease brought this for a reason they could have retained their own system.only.
turkey risked everything to get s400.
India was offered patriot 3 and f35 but said no we want s400.
Saudi can afford any system.it wants always buts the best ie f15 silent eagle typhoon ..it chose s400
they chose this because it' probably the best ballistic missle defense system.in the world at present at a guess
but hey it's not proven so it don't count

The purpose of the thread was to discuss pakistan options in overcoming a system.that incorporates hundreds of missles,some of which travel at mach 15 and multiple radars. that arrives in 8 months time.

since you don't have f35 or typhoon or late model teens what tactics you may choose using your thunders mirages against a Russian design missle system.for overcoming fifth gen fighters.

nobody said it's invincible I left that to the 5 y tube clips from pakistan general's usa think tanks .

what it had told me your awacs are sitting ducks at 400km rendering them.far less effective they are slow and large
and fighter planes can be tracked anywhere in pakistan due to pal.having no strategic depth.

you will.find solution but will need more than what you have now for sure .

one off skirmish is ok in 27th fighting s,full. scale war is different


the chinease brought this for a reason they could have retained their own system.only.
turkey risked everything to get s400.
India was offered patriot 3 and f35 but said no we want s400.
Saudi can afford any system.it wants always buts the best ie f15 silent eagle typhoon ..it chose s400
they chose this because it' probably the best ballistic missle defense system.in the world at present at a guess
but hey it's not proven so it don't count

india was never offered either of these weapons , f35 or patriot batteries.

recently the usa is pondering offering thr f-15ex. Boeing has said that it wants to offer the f-15 to India not the USA government

k

 

[Trailer23]

I'd be nice if the Mods can move this b.s. feel good Topic to where it actually belongs, in the Trash - a.k.a Indian Defense Forum.

This is more about the capabilities of the S-400 and less about the PAF.

Indians think they can wipe out the PAF with dji Drones.

@waz @LeGenD @BHarwana

 

[Mig hunter]

There are many answers which the general didn't reply to the best of his knowledge. I know it for sure. Rest assure India will be getting another surprise if they tried again.
Just keenly observe Indians replies on any forum, they would be trying their best to psychologically overpower Pakistanis and achieve superiority in psychological domain. They will always portray a new system as unique, alien tech and nothing like it on face of earth. So relax and let them jump at the end they will get another bloody nose..

 

[Type59]

F 35 would have been more of a threat. Thankfully Indians wont be able to get system due to S 400 purchase.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

There are many answers which the general didn't reply to the best of his knowledge. I know it for sure. Rest assure India will be getting another surprise if they tried again.
Just keenly observe Indians replies on any forum, they would be trying their best to psychologically overpower Pakistanis and achieve superiority in psychological domain. They will always portray a new system as unique, alien tech and nothing like it on face of earth. So relax and let them jump at the end they will get another bloody nose..

They're not doing a good job of it as it is more easier to overpower and expose indian lies and propaganda then it would be to expose the fairy tales of a 10 year old.......................

 

[ARMalik]

Really good explanation by Pakistan General

Acquasition range 600km
Engage 400km max
5 different missles
5 regiments
costing $5 billion

Considered the best in the world

He explains the impact at strategic tactile level and how it will severly impact PAF response

India can target all of PAF

Right so an Army General knows the tactics of an AIR-FORCE!! What's next, a plumber knowing the inner workings of a Quantum Computer. Come dude ..... he is just giving his an opinion just like other hundreds like him. He should stick to Army tactics - that's all I can say.

 

[313ghazi]

I don't know why they bother with S400. As we all know Mini Awac SU-30MKI will blow PAF out of the skies whilst it is still taking off.

 

[The Eagle]

what tactics you may choose

I am wondering who told you to ask for options as such on PDF or any forum and someone will let you know? However, the options will remain like a surprise as to what happened to SU-30MKI aka Asian Raptor aka flying AWACS on 27th Feb, 2019. The element of surprise......The tactics will be discussed once PAF/PA succeeded to destroy couple of S-400 System/batteries. No doubt S-400 is a capable system as of yet but there is no system in the world that may cape anything in existence. The evolution & counter tactics will always come eventually given the threat package.

 

[Great Janjua]

The concerning factor with the S400 system is not its missiles but its Radar Range Due to its long-range and Pakistan being a narrow country the movement of our paratroopers And large reconnaissance aircraft are demoralised also due to the radar and the long-range missiles big reconnaissance and troop transport aircraft are used with caution leading to a blunt in offensive capabilities but no need to worry the answer to such systems is long-range cruise missiles, long-range stealth suicide UAVS and land-based EW systems so in short, Pakistan needs to increase first its Babur Missiles range to at least 1500km second to Build or buy Stealthy Suicide UAVs like the ones used to target Saudi oil facility and last but not least buy Koral land-based EW system from Turkey all these are a must and the military establishment needs to have a serious rethink also may I add up-gradation off current air defence platforms is needed we cannot rely on 75km range possessing platforms minimum for a narrow country like ours is at least 120 km and max 300km to be on the safe side

 

[DrWatson775]

Potential response to s400. SIGINT/Localize then strikes could be with RAAD / MAR 1/ LD 10s ....

Any strike against a long range SAM will have some attrition rate..... the question is what that is and what is considered 'acceptable' if any.