S-400 : A silver bullet for IAF air defence systems?

[White and Green with M/S]

Yaar, I think that PAK born from 2019 after such small incident the way you talk about feb 27 and forget 70 years of history and war in 1965, 1971, 1984 and 1999.

And in 65/71 both countries had minimal ground based radars coverage with no SAMs only both countries had AAA in 65/71, and what happened on 84 can you explain me??, and in 99 we have only Anza MANPADS or some old HQ-2 ( copy of Soviet SA-2) and in 99 you jets flying with BVR but PAF had no BVR in 99, that's the reason, your air force dominates in 99

 

[Baibars_1260]

And in 65/71 both countries had minimal ground based radars coverage with no SAMs only both countries had AAA in 65/71, and what happened on 84 can you explain me??, and in 99 we have only Anza MANPADS or some old HQ-2 ( copy of Soviet SA-2) and in 99 you jets flying with BVR but PAF had no BVR in 99, that's the reason, your air force dominates in 99

Flame bait and derailing the topic by Runk-Hindustani.

The usual "1971" memories.
It is said the Egyptians keep remembering 1260 because that was the last battle they won.

Same complex.

Why do we forget Soviet and Afghan downed between 1982-1988. The first IAF aircraft lost in battle was a reconnaissance Canberra downed in 1959.
The pilot of the Canberra, Sqn Ldr J.C. Sengupta, and navigator Flt Lt S.N. Rampal were taken into custody after they ejected and landed on Pakistani soil. However, they were repatriated a day later.
These were the first Abhinandans.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

And in 65/71 both countries had minimal ground based radars coverage with no SAMs only both countries had AAA in 65/71, and what happened on 84 can you explain me??, and in 99 we have only Anza MANPADS or some old HQ-2 ( copy of Soviet SA-2) and in 99 you jets flying with BVR but PAF had no BVR in 99, that's the reason, your air force dominates in 99

And in 65/71 both countries had minimal ground based radars coverage with no SAMs only both countries had AAA in 65/71.

1965/71 - PAK was having technological advantage over IAF. PAK was having aircrafts with Air to Air missiles but IAF was not. Yes, agreed! There was no SAM's on both sides.

Flame bait and derailing the topic by Runk-Hindustani.

The usual "1971" memories.
It is said the Egyptians keep remembering 1260 because that was the last battle they won.

Same complex.

Why do we forget Soviet and Afghan downed between 1982-1988. The first IAF aircraft lost in battle was a reconnaissance Canberra downed in 1959.
The pilot of the Canberra, Sqn Ldr J.C. Sengupta, and navigator Flt Lt S.N. Rampal were taken into custody after they ejected and landed on Pakistani soil. However, they were repatriated a day later.
These were the first Abhinandans.

Same goes to 27th Feb, for a very small incident. I don't think it was needed to quote everywhere even in the thread.

PAK was having the technical advantage over the IAF till 1990. Then, IAF was having advantage in 1990s and early 2010s....

F 16 with AIM-120 AMRAAM (Missile range 110 KM) was having advantage over Su 30 mki (R77 missile with range 70 KM).

Now, Su 30 MKi is also equipped with R-27ER missile (range 110 KM).

So now, don't know when till will be beating a very small incident on 27th feb.....

 

[Falcon26]

Yaar, I think that PAK born from 2019 after such small incident the way you talk about feb 27 and forget 70 years of history and war in 1965, 1971, 1984 and 1999.

This was a very small incident, if I will think that way then only two three missile boats from Indian navy will be destroyed all your navy assets as same they did in 1971.

I believed that it will be foolish thinking the incidents will be repeated and any army will do the same mistake which did in past.

1965 you got trashed, 1948 Pakistan wrestled a significant chunk of Kashmir, 1971 was an anomaly (Pakistan had to fight 1000s of km away amidst hostile population and foreign invasion, no one could win) 1999 you got your backend handed down to you when Nawaz and Clinton bailed you out, 2019 was a global embarrassment for you guys.

So what 70 years of war are you talking about? You have been kept in your place by a country 10x smaller in size and wealth.

PAF has always dominated IAF. This will always remain a constant.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Now, Su 30 MKi is also equipped with R-27ER missile (range 110 KM).

but its still not par on AMRAAM-C-5 because its a semi active guided AAM, which means your MKI must fly toward the target to paint enemy jets for R-27ER, hence MKI will enter NO ESCAPE ZONE OF OUR AMRAAM-C5

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

but its still not par on AMRAAM-C-5 because its a semi active guided AAM, which means your MKI must fly toward the target to paint enemy jets for R-27ER, hence MKI will enter NO ESCAPE ZONE OF OUR AMRAAM-C5

The same reason IAF is looking more capable AA missiles. Even they have purchased R-77 / RVV-AE (110 Km) range.

As of now, option is available Astra 1 (Already inducted) and Astra 2, er derby-i bvr extended range.

1965 you got trashed, 1948 Pakistan wrestled a significant chunk of Kashmir, 1971 was an anomaly (Pakistan had to fight 1000s of km away amidst hostile population and foreign invasion, no one could win) 1999 you got your backend handed down to you when Nawaz and Clinton bailed you out, 2019 was a global embarrassment for you guys.

So what 70 years of war are you talking about? You have been kept in your place by a country 10x smaller in size and wealth.

PAF has always dominated IAF. This will always remain a constant.

It is not worthy to response on your BS.

 

[Baibars_1260]

And in 65/71 both countries had minimal ground based radars coverage with no SAMs only both countries had AAA in 65/71.

1965/71 - PAK was having technological advantage over IAF. PAK was having aircrafts with Air to Air missiles but IAF was not. Yes, agreed! There was no SAM's on both sides.



Same goes to 27th Feb, for a very small incident. I don't think it was needed to quote everywhere even in the thread.

PAK was having the technical advantage over the IAF till 1990. Then, IAF was having advantage in 1990s and early 2010s....

F 16 with AIM-120 AMRAAM (Missile range 110 KM) was having advantage over Su 30 mki (R77 missile with range 70 KM).

Now, Su 30 MKi is also equipped with R-27ER missile (range 110 KM).

So now, don't know when till will be beating a very small incident on 27th feb.....

Minor difference, in case you noticed.
PAF has fought and downed planes from other Air forces as well.
-Soviet Union
-IDF
-Afghanistan
This was when facing superior technology odds both in ground and air assets.
So PAF was not born on 27th February 2019. I would say it was born on l0th April 1959.
Even the Soviets never managed to shoot down a reconnaissance Canberra.
PAF did it with a WW2 Radar and a late forties era F-86 Sabre jet.

Untold story of an IAF Canberra & its crew, 60 years before Wing Commander Abhinandan's MiG

The 27 February dogfight has many similarities with an incident with Pakistan 60 years ago, only the Indian pilots then were blindsided.

theprint.in

 

[Falcon26]

The same reason IAF is looking more capable AA missiles. Even they have purchased R-77 / RVV-AE (110 Km) range.

As of now, option is available Astra 1 (Already inducted) and Astra 2, er derby-i bvr extended range.



It is not worthy to response on your BS.

Just what I thought.

Good boy!

Minor difference, in case you noticed.
PAF has fought and downed planes from other Air forces as well.
-Soviet Union
-IDF
-Afghanistan
This was when facing superior technology odds both in ground and air assets.
So PAF was not born on 27th February 2019. I would say it was born on l0th April 1959.
Even the Soviets never managed to shoot down a reconnaissance Canberra.

Untold story of an IAF Canberra & its crew, 60 years before Wing Commander Abhinandan's MiG

The 27 February dogfight has many similarities with an incident with Pakistan 60 years ago, only the Indian pilots then were blindsided.

theprint.in

Good post!

He’s peddling a cheap Indian propaganda and has problems with the facts. These Indian revisionists always end up embarrassing themselves. He doesn’t want people to talk about feb 26/27 because it perfectly encapsulates the PAF’s qualitative edge over the IAF. He rather live in his Bollywood bubble.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

The same reason IAF is looking more capable AA missiles. Even they have purchased R-77 / RVV-AE (110 Km) range.

As of now, option is available Astra 1 (Already inducted) and Astra 2, er derby-i bvr extended range.

yeah you're right, you're looking at extending range BVR, In some rumors you already inducted I-derby on your M-2000

And Astra-1 is just start its production and low in numbers in IAF, And for Astra-2 forget about it for at least 2 years

 

[khail007]

I've seen a few people saying that the S-400 systems bought by India would allow the IAF to target PAF planes as they take off from their bases, thanks to the 400km

May be years ago, same claims were made by Indians in the past when India inducted, Israeli made 'PHALCON' equipped AWACS.
Still they are wiping the blood off since 27-Feb, from their nose.
Indian thinking is that buying an equipment of higher price will made them invincible - that is not the case, every time they will get the bloody nose when they will do any misadventure - In-Shaa-Allah.

 

[CrazyZ]

I won't speculate on a major conventional/nuclear war scenarios. In more likely small scale tit for tat skirmish scenario, S-400's would make it hard for PAF to carry out hit and run strikes with stand off munitions. But in this tit for tat scenario, knocking out S-400 themselves could be all that's needed for a "prestige victory". Especially if Indians keep hyping them up as super duper mega weapons. Kind of like the SU-30 scenario.

Scenario would go like this.....India fires Brahmos missiles at Pakistan. Strikes would do little damage but Indian hype machine will try to spin it as a massive victory. Pakistan would counter strike knocking out S400's (super duper mega weapons). Major powers would intervene to deescalate the situation. Indians and Pakistanis would spend the next year arguing on the internet over who won. Funny thing is that manned AC may not even play much of the role in this scenario.

 

[Baibars_1260]

1965 you got trashed, 1948 Pakistan wrestled a significant chunk of Kashmir, 1971 was an anomaly (Pakistan had to fight 1000s of km away amidst hostile population and foreign invasion, no one could win) 1999 you got your backend handed down to you when Nawaz and Clinton bailed you out, 2019 was a global embarrassment for you guys.

So what 70 years of war are you talking about? You have been kept in your place by a country 10x smaller in size and wealth.

PAF has always dominated IAF. This will always remain a constant.

Intervention in a Civil War and its the famous "1000 year victory " to be followed by the next victory after another 1000 years.
Meanwhile we kicked their buddies pretty hard in the air:
"During the Soviet–Afghan War, between May 1986 and January 1989, Pakistan Air Force F-16s shot down at least 10 intruders from Afghanistan. Four of the kills were Afghan Su-22s bombers, three were Afghan transports (two An-26s and one An-24), and one was a Soviet Su-25 bomber. Most of these kills were achieved using the AIM-9 Sidewinder, but a Su-22 was destroyed by cannon fire and the one An-24 crash landed after being forced to land upon"
That's 10 planes inside Pakistani airspace
The Soviet Union lost over 118 fixed wing and 333 helicopters over Afghanistan due to hostile fire and all causes
Note this excludes AfAF losses.
Planes downed by PAF over Afghanistan were never claimed by PAF nor admitted by VVS.
PAF made sweeps into Afghanistan and lost one F16A to fratricide.

 

[arjunk]

Yaar, I think that PAK born from 2019 after such small incident the way you talk about feb 27 and forget 70 years of history and war in 1965, 1971, 1984 and 1999.

This was a very small incident, if I will think that way then only two three missile boats from Indian navy will be destroyed all your navy assets as same they did in 1971.

I believed that it will be foolish thinking the incidents will be repeated and any army will do the same mistake which did in past.

What's wrong with the Indo-Pak wars? The only change that came about was that India lost 86,000km^2 of territory.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

What's wrong with the Indo-Pak wars? The only change that came about was that India lost 86,000km^2 of territory.

It is half glass full and half glass empty?

I would rather say that Indian army was able to control 65% of J & k during the 1948 war. It was a pak army losses because losing 65% of J & K which claims by PAK.

On topic - I forgot to add Quick Reaction Surface-to-Air Missile (QRSAM) in the list with other defense system.

1. Israeli low-level Spyder quick-reaction surface-to-air missle (QR-SAM) systems (15-km range)
2. Akash area defence missile systems (25-km range)
3. long-range Barak-8 SAM systems (70 to 100-km range)
4. Quick Reaction Surface-to-Air Missile (QRSAM) (3 to 30-km range)
5. S 125 SAM systems (incorporates with the S 300 System " PSM-33 Mk.2 Radar and the ST-68 ‘Tin Shield’ Radar")
6. S-400 Triumf missile
7. Indian Ballistic Missile Defence systems

 

[Irfan Baloch]

best way to counter Indian S400 is get Turkey + China to handle the EW information

use it to programme our own missiles, basically building our own S400 hunting missiles

also allow our air force to train against these systems in Turkey to develop tactics to avoid them

overall I dont see S400 as a big threat, we can developed two methods

1 - to take them out
2- to avoid them

@Irfan Baloch,

Most people don't understand when I say that this is a pakistani defense forum and not a truth forum---.

The enemy has his plan and we have our plan. We let the enemy roll and believe in the potency of their system---.

I remember an article about the 1971 war---in the pakistani air base war room there is a great concern about the tactical anti aircraft fire of the indian army at their air bases against incoming enemy aircraft---the paf are seriously concerned about being hit---it seemed impossible to get thru the ack ack.

And then there is this one pilot who loves physics---and he draws and comes up with a plan that worked very well for paf.

we are a developing nation
both economically and mentally. if someone gets inside information or has qualifications above the average population then the embedded bug inside the a hole stings him to show off that he knows more. maybe not necessarily for being morally truthful but to be noticed and admired ( even if grudgingly).

we had senior miltary officers kid here on this forum back in early 2000s to mid 2000s who couldnot help but will share picutres of Pakistani vehucles tanks and towed artillery with formation signs detailingwhere they are stationed and where they are headed under their "Daddy" command and they took these picutres themselves as no junior officer dared ti stop them for safety of his carer . the kids will go that they will give constant updates as the likes and admiration from "fellow " members asking for more by massaging their egoes and "patriotism".
obviously they were told to stop even begged when their posts were deleted they threatened to continue even post in facebook and other forums failing to comprehend why some things shouldn't be shared. I blamed their fathers for failing to discipline their kids.