Russian-Indian fifth-generation fighter will not be a copy of the T-50

[Avatar]

Who says Russia will give India an "inferior" product ? There is no logical reason to support that. Russia is infact one of India's most dependable allies. They will give us an equal product if not anything better.

 

[1000VA]

If we can't have any state of the art technology than how would we develop AMCA??? LCH? LCA? missile defence? AWACS??? Brahmos???

We have some tech in aircraft building bur certainly they are not 'state of art'.
AMCA-I can't say anything about it until it's prototype comes.
LCH- Still over weight and under going trails.
LCA-Not yet completed.
Missile Defence- From where the Radar tech comes from?
AWACS-Developing face
Brahmos-"JV"(still the engine comes from Russia indigenous production under consideration)

Come onn... In some areas Russians are better and in some we are. Thats why we replaced Russian systems on many Russian aircrafts with our own systems. Brahmos has Indian command, control guidance and software. Its entirely developed in India based on Yakhont as a base.

Can you please elaborate in what areas?The Russian's give us permission to add some European tech in to their aircraft, not every country easily agree like that.
Our own contribution to Su-30 is like a glass of water to a well

Which Israeli systems??? No its not a marketing technique. If you understnd if Russian didn't offer JV than at the end India would buy PAK FA.

Such as Barak NG, LR/MR SAM, Multi mode Radar, Unmanned Helicopter, even they supports spy satellite program.

No, twin seater will be same in size. No change in airframe. BTW who will ensure that advanced composites to make it lighter? India. If Russia had that technology than they would have done it already on the T-50.

I said 'according to some sources' right?
According to requirement India can make some modifications too,see the example of Japanese F-16.
Don't compare India with Russia in the metallurgy field bro, they are way ahead of us.

Wrong. Israel didn't offer it to India but India shown interest in Phalcon and Arrow-II. After that US approved the sale and Israel sold it.

According to Indo-Israeli military relation Shown interest and Offered can be considered as one

Russian also??? why???

When Russia exported SU-30MKI it was better than any aircraft in Russian inventory. There were many articles regarding this. Check it.

Absolutely No.Look at the situation they offered us su-30,they are in huge economy crisis.Su-30 was also in developing face that time and they waited for the better one.

And if Russia gives India inferior PAK FA than it going to have for Russian AF than India will make it better than that with Indian, Israeli, French technologies. Russia can't make the engine and airframe inferior, so rests can be replaced by better systems from anyone.

I didn't say Inferior,they will make some changes for their version that's sure.Nobody will ruin their market by giving full technology to other country.
Still the crucial parts of Su-30 comes directly from Russia and we simply assembles it.

 

[FSLN]

And if Russia gives India inferior PAK FA than it going to have for Russian AF than India will make it better than that with Indian, Israeli, French technologies.

I am afraid you guys are at a lost here, right now Russia stealth Tech its untouchable(aside from the U.S.A. ofcourse), the countries that helped you turn the Su-30 to the superior MKi ALL of those countries are lacking in Stealth tech, Israle, France and India are at least 20 years behind(will be shorter once they get their hand on F-35 and T-50)...

rests can be replaced by better systems from anyone. [/B]

What better System, this is Stealth tech we are talking about For God's sake..

these(5th gen plane) wonder machines need to work like swiss watch, anything loose(avionics integration) and wont work properly(stop being so stealthy), so you wana put Israel/French or even Indian Avionics? what do those countries know about LPI(Low Probability of Intersept) avionics?.. you might end up turning the T-50 into a radar beacon for enemy AWACS


thats why I think the idea of turning the T-50 into a Mki like project its not so good of an Idea, leave the avionics and stealth structural modifications for the Stealth experts after all nobody else(except USA) is so far ahead on this Technology, sure work with them, learn from them so later you can have your own T-50MKi...

 

[kingdurgaking]

thats why I think the idea of turning the T-50 into a Mki like project its not so good of an Idea, leave the avionics and stealth structural modifications for the Stealth experts after all nobody else(except USA) is so far ahead on this Technology, sure work with them, learn from them so later you can have your own T-50MKi...

hmmm JV idea is not viewed like your idea... FGFA will be different to that of T-50 and that is our requirement which Russia has accepted... And for your Information we are contributing to that project on Airframes too mostly in the area of composites which is one of the building blocks for stealth.. We have already done some Research on stealth and HAL-ADA is confident of doing 5th generation fighter on there own(AMCA)...

 

[FSLN]

FGFA will be different to that of T-50 and that is our requirement which Russia has accepted...

that does not mean it will be as stealthy or stealthier than their own planes(Russia) after all they wont be flying your planes(FGFA) and after all their adversary its a powerful one, one you will never face..

We have already done some Research on stealth..

everybody has done some Reaserch on stealth, only a few have mastered, powerful nations in the Europe Union and the even the Future SuperPower china are lagging behind..

HAL-ADA is confident of doing 5th generation fighter on there own(AMCA)...

so are the chinese and look how long it has take them to make it past the drawing board...

 

[gogbot]

This is 50 Billion dollar project.(Long term)

With a Substantial part of the money being pumped into Russian R&D.
Russia invited India for the JV so we the Funding can be sorted can be easier and faster.

The FGFA is as beneficial to the Russians as it is to India.
Russia will use the Funds to further their own R&D for 5th gen Fighters , the same goes for India. While being the Junior partner in terms of development , India will be absorbing a lot of tech. Since this is JV designs will be shared.

Keep i Mind India has already begun Studying 5th gen technology with Regards to the MCA. We are not starting from point 0. The Fact that a wind tunnel model has already been produced , will tell you we are exactly ammeters.

To say Russia will Provide India with inferior tech is false. No past history of such an event exists.
To this day India and Russia continue to be Strategic partners.
Something that Is foolish to jeopardize by trying to safeguard tech from what is a friendly nation.

Russia and India have number of JV ongoing , this is not the first and will hardly be the last.

 

[kingdurgaking]

that does not mean it will be as stealthy or stealthier than their own planes(Russia) after all they wont be flying your planes(FGFA) and after all their adversary its a powerful one, one you will never face..

everybody has done some Reaserch on stealth, only a few have mastered, powerful nations in the Europe Union and the even the Future SuperPower china are lagging behind..

so are the chinese and look how long it has take them to make it past the drawing board...

Yes boss it will be stealthier than Russian PAK FA... our IAF Chief has said it will be more capable than F-22(lets hope for the best).. if Russia didnt oblige that they would have rejected the proposal straight away(Any way i cant comment on what is agreed).. Russia do know how to make plane stealthier as equal to F-22 .. they are doing some trade off for some reason.. may be because of maintenance...

You have to understand that Research on stealth concept can be done by any one.. But how to implement is the question.. US has offered to do it in expensive way.. Russia little less expensive on some trade off.. China may be they are doing R & D on what is best for them.. Similarly the same applies to INDIA...

 

[FSLN]

Yes boss it will be stealthier than Russian PAK FA... our IAF Chief has said it will be more capable than F-22...

Talked about daydreaming...

 

[Kinetic]

We have some tech in aircraft building bur certainly they are not 'state of art'.
AMCA-I can't say anything about it until it's prototype comes.
LCH- Still over weight and under going trails.
LCA-Not yet completed.
Missile Defence- From where the Radar tech comes from?
AWACS-Developing face
Brahmos-"JV"(still the engine comes from Russia indigenous production under consideration)

AMCA: But we talking about T-50, just the prototype is out!!
LCH: That over weight is nothing, can go to higher altitude than Russian attack chopper. T-50 also a prototype.
LCA: But the technology is state of the art.
Missile defence: LRTR is built by DRDO.
AWACS: Russia doesn't have like one we are developing. their AWACS is mechanically scanned array.
Brahmos: The engine comes from Russia but many other systems are Indian. Just like FGFA.

the additional systems of FGFA will be much more advanced than PAK FA thats why IAF wants t modify it. India is contributing to those ares where we can make better systems. ie 25%. rest of the areas like engines, stealth etc Russia is way ahead of us so no changes.

Can you please elaborate in what areas?The Russian's give us permission to add some European tech in to their aircraft, not every country easily agree like that.

Russia had to gave permission, without that India wouldn't buy the MKI.

Our own contribution to Su-30 is like a glass of water to a well

I will let you fly a fighter with EW systems, radar computer, mission computer, data link etc. Than see...

Such as Barak NG, LR/MR SAM, Multi mode Radar, Unmanned Helicopter, even they supports spy satellite program.

Barak NG LR/MR SAM going to have many Indian systems, MMR is Indian radar with Israeli assistance, unmanned chopper??? NRUV?? Its based on Indian Chetak chopper. They don't supprt spy sat programme but we launched the spy sat for them.

I said 'according to some sources' right?
According to requirement India can make some modifications too,see the example of Japanese F-16.
Don't compare India with Russia in the metallurgy field bro, they are way ahead of us.

I think you know that one of INDIA'S main contribution will be composite for the airframe. Russian bought our composite developing software earlier.

According to Indo-Israeli military relation Shown interest and Offered can be considered as one

No mate. Early days Russia first offered their AWACS but India rejected it after trial. Instead shown interest in Israeli Phalcon. In those days Israel could not simply offer like now. Everything changed after Sharon came to Delhi.

Absolutely No.Look at the situation they offered us su-30,they are in huge economy crisis.Su-30 was also in developing face that time and they waited for the better one.

You are echoing my own words. It was better than Russian fighters. There were many articles regarding this. That mainly because Russia is much better than many in aerodynamics, engine, radar etc but inferior to Israel, France and India in terms of few systems. Thats why we choose Israeli/Indian/french systems over some Russian parts.

I didn't say Inferior,they will make some changes for their version that's sure. Nobody will ruin their market by giving full technology to other country.

Why change when Russia already can make everything better than us?? I think IAF must be wrong!! 25% of the FGFA's works will be done by India. If India don't have 'state of the art' technology to offer for FGFA why replace the superior Russian systems??? IAF is intentional replacing superior Russian techs in composite, avionics, EW, navigation etc etc. Its like F-16 block 60 to Block 15! IAF must have a faulty requirements. because only a faulty requirement can bring superior to inferior calling at as 'changes'.

Still the crucial parts of Su-30 comes directly from Russia and we simply assembles it.

Which parts??? from engines to radar everything are made in India.

 

[1000VA]

AMCA: But we talking about T-50, just the prototype is out!!
LCH: That over weight is nothing, can go to higher altitude than Russian attack chopper. T-50 also a prototype.
LCA: But the technology is state of the art.
Missile defence: LRTR is built by DRDO.
AWACS: Russia doesn't have like one we are developing. their AWACS is mechanically scanned array.
Brahmos: The engine comes from Russia but many other systems are Indian. Just like FGFA.

None of them operational,we can call it successful after only their induction.

the additional systems of FGFA will be much more advanced than PAK FA thats why IAF wants t modify it. India is contributing to those ares where we can make better systems. ie 25%. rest of the areas like engines, stealth etc Russia is way ahead of us so no changes.

much more advanced is just illusion.
India is not contributing with own technology.Only few of them will be there from India.

Russia had to gave permission, without that India wouldn't buy the MKI.

Then there is restriction for India from US and European countries after our Nuclear test.

I will let you fly a fighter with EW systems, radar computer, mission computer, data link etc. Than see...

Only Tarang, LC display are Indian I think.

Barak NG LR/MR SAM going to have many Indian systems, MMR is Indian radar with Israeli assistance, unmanned chopper??? NRUV?? Its based on Indian Chetak chopper. They don't supprt spy sat programme but we launched the spy sat for them.

What many systems my friend, can you please give me a proof?
MMR's antenna is Indian baaki sub Israeli
Check the Risat1&2 program mate.

I think you know that one of INDIA'S main contribution will be composite for the airframe. Russian bought our composite developing software earlier.

Please give me a link.

No mate. Early days Russia first offered their AWACS but India rejected it after trial. Instead shown interest in Israeli Phalcon. In those days Israel could not simply offer like now. Everything changed after Sharon came to Delhi.

We shown interest because it's much more advanced coz US tech in it.

You are echoing my own words. It was better than Russian fighters. There were many articles regarding this. That mainly because Russia is much better than many in aerodynamics, engine, radar etc but inferior to Israel, France and India in terms of few systems. Thats why we choose Israeli/Indian/french systems over some Russian parts.

I will give a detail explanation for this later.

Why change when Russia already can make everything better than us?? I think IAF must be wrong!! 25% of the FGFA's works will be done by India. If India don't have 'state of the art' technology to offer for FGFA why replace the superior Russian systems??? IAF is intentional replacing superior Russian techs in composite, avionics, EW, navigation etc etc. Its like F-16 block 60 to Block 15! IAF must have a faulty requirements. because only a faulty requirement can bring superior to inferior calling at as 'changes'.

We can get a clear picture after FGFA prototype is ready

Which parts??? from engines to radar everything are made in India.

From Engine to radar all crucial parts are directly coming from Russia.Do you really think that one country will give you full information on their technology and ruin their market,Impossible.It's simple logic mate.

 

[FSLN]

If India don't have 'state of the art' technology.

Only 2 countries have "state of the Art Stealth technology" and India its not one of them(for now)....

 

[kingdurgaking]

Talked about daydreaming...

Day dreaming usually comes true.. ... Lets wait and see.. i guess your eyes brows will raise for sure on hearing the development...

Wanted to add one thing... If you think logically if PAK FA is the product better ... India will opt for that with twin seat.. India feels we need better one than PAK FA... so is the new deal... I guess this may sound little logical to you

 

[kingdurgaking]

None of them operational,we can call it successful after only their induction.

much more advanced is just illusion.
India is not contributing with own technology.Only few of them will be there from India.

Then there is restriction for India from US and European countries after our Nuclear test.

Only Tarang, LC display are Indian I think.

What many systems my friend, can you please give me a proof?
MMR's antenna is Indian baaki sub Israeli
Check the Risat1&2 program mate.

Please give me a link.

We shown interest because it's much more advanced coz US tech in it.

I will give a detail explanation for this later.

We can get a clear picture after FGFA prototype is ready

From Engine to radar all crucial parts are directly coming from Russia.Do you really think that one country will give you full information on their technology and ruin their market,Impossible.It's simple logic mate.

Wanted to add one thing to both of you... One is arguing India is having the capability while the other is arguing no... But the situation is India has the capability but we are not able to do because of lack of Industrial base and funds for setting that up.. When we have the right base and funds... we can see beautiful products rolling out of the hanger..

For Tejas we have the minimum Infrastructure setup and we given a nice product...

 

[FSLN]

Day dreaming usually comes true.. ...

but this one its a difficult one... I mean just think it this way please

a finished(production type 2017?) T-50 being on par with a 2005 F-22 Raptor(by 2020 who knows what ultra high tech goodies the Raptor will have) its debatable as it will not directly compete with it but with the export version F-35, ok now to claim that the FGFA will exceed not only the T-50 but surpass the F-22? now that statement its touching Dreamland territory...

oh yeah I know the Su-30MKi being superior to F-15E its not far-fetched but thats 4th gen fighters, a tech I must say you have mastered(going by the quality of the Mki) but Stealth tech is a something much much different...

 

[kingdurgaking]

oh yeah I know the Su-30MKi being superior to F-15E its not far-fetched but thats 4th gen fighters, a tech I must say you have mastered(going by the quality of the Mki) but Stealth tech is a something much much different...

I guess you are confused.. Just like AESA radar which US mastered and others are catching with US(Other will eventually surpass US in future).. stealth will also meet the same fate.. only difference is US would have invented something new by that time to keep its master status...

some countries have overtaken US 4th gen planes... why? because US is in 5th gen and is already moving to 6th gen... thats the reason Stealth will be common technology in another 2 decades or more..