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I doubt and hope not. Azm is 20 years away if we go development route and 10-12 years if JV local assembly and work share route is taken.

If Thunder can be developed in 2.75 years, Azm can be developed in 10 years, if not less. Project started 2017 - that means will be in production by 2026 if that timeline of 10 years holds.

I think that would be perfect as Block III / IV production will end around that time. Meaning PAC won't be sitting idle but continuing work. This makes the more sense to me than 2040 - as it would mean significant idle time.
 
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If Thunder can be developed in 2.75 years, Azm can be developed in 10 years, if not less. Project started 2017 - that means will be in production by 2026 if that timeline of 10 years holds.

I think that would be perfect as Block III / IV production will end around that time. Meaning PAC won't be sitting idle but continuing work. This makes the more sense to me than 2040 - as it would mean significant idle time.
JFT took around 10 years to get operational. There is no way that Azm will be operational by 2030. If we go by best case scenario we “may” see first prototypes in 10 years from now. It will take 5plus year to test and mature. Then around 5 for production, operationalization and reaching numbers that are significant. So 2040.
 
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https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2...t-engine-is-it-for-pak-jf-17-fighter.amp.html




Russia confirms progress on new jet engine. Is it for Pak JF-17 fighter?

Despite repeated Indian protests, Russia has continued supply of RD-93 to Pakistan

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Web DeskJuly 09, 2020 14:15 IST
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The first test flight of the JF-17 Block 3 | Via Twitter
A Russian company announced on Wednesday that a new engine for fighter aircraft that it had developed has been shipped for conducting thermal pressure chamber tests.

The state-owned United Engine Corporation controls development and manufacturing of all engines for military, civilian and space use in Russia and for Russian exports. The UEC's Klimov plant in St Petersburg had been developing the RD-93MA engine, which is a modification of the RD-93 engine, used on the JF-17 fighter, being built by Pakistan and China.

In a press release on its website on Wednesday, UEC said the RD-93MA engine had been shipped from St. Petersburg to Moscow for thermal pressure chamber trials at the Central Institute of Aviation Motors (CIAM). The pressure chamber trials at CIAM are expected to subject the RD-93MA engine to simulated heat and altitude conditions the power-plant would experience in actual flight.

The UEC press release states, "The RD-93MA engine has improved performance. In particular, increased thermodynamic parameters, an improved design of the fan and the hot part, an upgraded automatic power-plant control system... An additional emergency engine start mode was provided... and the possibility of emergency fuel drain was realised. All this is due to the specifics associated with the possible use of the power-plant on a single-engine aircraft..."

The reference to use in single-engine aircraft has given rise to speculation that the new engine is destined for the JF-17 fighter. This is because Russia does not have any active single-engine fighter project at the moment.

According to reports, the RD-93MA engine can produce maximum thrust of 9,300 kgf (kilogram-force). The RD-93MA would have significantly greater thrust than the existing RD-93 engine used on Pakistan's JF-17 fighter, which can produce maximum thrust of 8,300kgf, according to UEC.

Having a new engine offers advantages in addition to increased thrust in combat situations. In December, Chinese state media confirmed that the latest version of the JF-17, dubbed the JF-17 Block 3, had made its maiden flight. The upgraded fighter will have new electronically scanned radar and other electronics, all of which necessitate higher power requirements than can be met by the existing power-plant.

Pakistan has already built over 100 JF-17 fighters for its air force and officials have indicated 62 JF-17 Block 3 fighters will be ordered by 2024.

In 2015, IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly reported Pakistan would continue to use Russian engines for the JF-17 even though China was developing an alternate engine. “We are completely satisfied with this Russian-made engine,” an official Pakistan Aeronautical Complex had told IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly. Pakistani officials had claimed "changing to another engine would not make any sense and would be disruptive and cause a huge expense for the JF-17 programme".

Interestingly, the RD-93 has a connection to India. The RD-93 is developed from the RD-33 engine that powers the MiG-29UPG fighters of the Indian Air Force and MiG-29K jets of the Indian Navy. India operates over 60 MiG-29UPG jets and about 40 MiG-29K fighters. The government recently cleared the purchase of 21 MiG-29 fighters for the Indian Air Force.

Despite repeated Indian protests in the past two decades, Russia has continued supply of the RD-93 to China and Pakistan.




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Good to hear things are moving rapidly for the JF17 upgrades. We know have options for better Russian and Chinese Engines, will not mind a sanction free Western option in the future!
 
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Russia would be developing upgraded engines for Pakistan's JF-17 fighters


The Russian state-owned United Engine Corporation (UEC) is developing upgraded RD-93MA engines for Pakistan's JF-17 fighters.


Uec controls the development and manufacture of all engines for military, civil and space use in Russia and for Russian exports.

The RD-93MA was specially developed to power single-engine fighters. It is an update of the RD-93 engine that currently powers the Sino-Pakistani PAC JF-17/Chengdu FC-1 fighter.

In a press release on its website on Wednesday, the UEC said the RD-93MA engine had been shipped from St. Petersburg to Moscow for thermal pressure chamber testing at the Central Motor Aviation Institute (TsIAM). Pressure chamber tests on ciam are expected to subject the RD-93MA engine to simulated heat and altitude conditions that the engine would experience in real flight.

The UEC press release states: "The RD-93MA mechanism has improved performance. In particular, improved thermodynamic parameters, an improved fan and hot part design, an updated automatic engine control system ... An additional mode of emergency engine start-up has been provided ... and the possibility of emergency fuel drain was performed. All this is due to the specificities associated with the possible use of the engine in a single-engine aircraft... "

The reference to being used in single-engine aircraft has given rise to speculation that the new engine is intended for jf-17 fighter. This is because Russia has no single-engine fighter design active at the moment.

Upon successful completion of the thermal chamber test, the next phase will begin for flight design testing. Several tests on the large TsIAM thermal pressure chamber will be conducted as part of the experimental design test on rd-93MA, a UEC statement said.

During testing, the engine will simulate actual flight conditions for further testing with the BARK-93MA, the automatic engine control system designed and manufactured in uec-klimov.


JF-17 Thunder Block III jet.
These new engine systems will power JF-17 Block III jets.

According to reports, the RD-93MA engine can produce maximum thrust of 9,300 kgf (kilogram-force). The RD-93MA would have a significantly higher thrust than the existing RD-93 engine used in Pakistan's JF-17 fighter, which can produce a maximum thrust of 8,300kgf, according to uec.

Having a new mechanism offers advantages beyond increased buoyancy in combat situations. In December, Chinese state media confirmed that the latest version of the JF-17, dubbed JF-17 Block 3, had made its maiden flight. The upgraded fighter will have new electronically scanned radar and other electronic systems, all of which require higher power requirements than those that can be met by the existing engine.

Pakistan has already built more than 100 JF-17 fighters for its air force and officials have indicated that 62 JF-17 Block 3 fighters will be ordered by 2024.

In 2015, Jane's reported that Pakistan would continue to use Russian engines for the JF-17, even though China was developing an alternative engine. "We are completely satisfied with this Russian-made engine," said an official Pakistan aviation complex. Pakistani authorities claimed that "switching to another mechanism would make no sense and would be disruptive and would cause a huge expense for the JF-17 program."

Interestingly, the RD-93 has a connection to India. The RD-93 is developed from the RD-33 engine that powers the Indian Air Force's MiG-29UPG fighters and the Indian Navy's MiG-29K jets. India operates more than 60 MiG-29UPG jets and about 40 MiG-29K fighters. Recently, the government authorized the purchase of 21 MiG-29 fighters for the Indian Air Force.

Despite repeated Indian protests over the past two decades, Russia has continued to supply rd-93 to China and Pakistan.

https://www.cavok.com.br/russia-est...res-atualizados-para-cacas-jf-17-do-paquistao
 
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A good development...

India is at the wrong side of the History - no surprises whatsoever....

It's both a ZERO-SUM and an INVERSELY PROPOTIONAL games for the Indo-Pak relationship...

*Hopefully, some wise men may appear in India some day to break this cycle
 
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A good development...

India is at the wrong side of the History - no surprises whatsoever....

It's both a ZERO-SUM and an INVERSELY PROPOTIONAL games for the Indo-Pak relationship...

*Hopefully, some wise men may appear in India some day to break this cycle

They suffer with the inferiority complex and no wander thanks to this notion of standing behind the white skin they sold out their country to the British Empire and accepted their slavery. One might have thought after independence they must have learned something but hell not. Now they see themselves again being important standing behind another Anglo-Saxon country. Slavery is written in the Indian stars of horoscope. While British anthem says Britannia rules the waves while Indian anthem says we always be the slave cos its written in our stars.
 
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Been hearing about this RD-93MA for years now. Pakistan should have opted for AL-31FN from the scratch.

But than again, As per AM Shahid Latif, Halfway in the project development, Chinese engineering were informed that their benchmark isn’t Improvement on MiG-21 Anymore but F-16.

At that’s time Chinese offered J-10 to Pakistan said, we already have something comparable. But I guess leaving JF-17 project after so many years of development and cost would be embarrassing and potentially effected negative on Top brass involved in the process. Therefore shahid latif decided not to end the projects. If PAF has their requirements and priority set from day 1st. Their level of benchmark identified clearly. Chinese mostly probably invited Pakistan to join J-10 development.

Now Pakistan is stuck with hybrid of
3rd and 4th Gen design with 4+ gen electronics and bells and whistles.

And too accommodate RD series engine for export customers (Pakistan), J-31/35 is also trying to use RD engine.

Failure breads Failure.
 
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. While British anthem says Britannia rules the waves while Indian anthem says we always be the slave cos its written in our stars.
In fact the Indian national anthem is composed from a Tagore's poem which was dedicated to a visit by King George V to India! And, he addressed the King as the dispenser of India's fate....
 
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Been hearing about this RD-93MA for years now. Pakistan should have opted for AL-31FN from the scratch.

But than again, As per AM Shahid Latif, Halfway in the project development, Chinese engineering were informed that their benchmark isn’t Improvement on MiG-21 Anymore but F-16.

At that’s time Chinese offered J-10 to Pakistan said, we already have something comparable. But I guess leaving JF-17 project after so many years of development and cost would be embarrassing and potentially effected negative on Top brass involved in the process. Therefore shahid latif decided not to end the projects. If PAF has their requirements and priority set from day 1st. Their level of benchmark identified clearly. Chinese mostly probably invited Pakistan to join J-10 development.

Now Pakistan is stuck with hybrid of
3rd and 4th Gen design with 4+ gen electronics and bells and whistles.

And too accommodate RD series engine for export customers (Pakistan), J-31/35 is also trying to use RD engine.

Failure breads Failure.

Hi,

And it takes years to develop a more powerful engine for a small aircraft than an engine for a large aircraft---.
 
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Russia Pakistan relationship will keep on growing definitely but I guess it might take a decade when Russia can offer pakistan some stealth planes if chinese allow pakistani to buy them though below it doesn’t see mich irritation for India
 
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Been hearing about this RD-93MA for years now. Pakistan should have opted for AL-31FN from the scratch.

But than again, As per AM Shahid Latif, Halfway in the project development, Chinese engineering were informed that their benchmark isn’t Improvement on MiG-21 Anymore but F-16.

At that’s time Chinese offered J-10 to Pakistan said, we already have something comparable. But I guess leaving JF-17 project after so many years of development and cost would be embarrassing and potentially effected negative on Top brass involved in the process. Therefore shahid latif decided not to end the projects. If PAF has their requirements and priority set from day 1st. Their level of benchmark identified clearly. Chinese mostly probably invited Pakistan to join J-10 development.

Now Pakistan is stuck with hybrid of
3rd and 4th Gen design with 4+ gen electronics and bells and whistles.

And too accommodate RD series engine for export customers (Pakistan), J-31/35 is also trying to use RD engine.

Failure breads Failure.
Engine has been the achiles heel of the chinese aviation industry. So not surprisingly it has reflected on the JFT development. However PAF appears to be happy with RD93. As to AL31FN it is too large to fit into the JFT. Also there may have been restrictions on use imposed by the Russians. It would have meant no aviation industry in Pakistan as we would have remained dependent on the Chinese J10s, so not a good idea.
A
 
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Been hearing about this RD-93MA for years now. Pakistan should have opted for AL-31FN from the scratch.
How you gonna fit AL31 FN into Jf17 in the first place?
At that’s time Chinese offered J-10 to Pakistan said, we already have something comparable. But I guess leaving JF-17 project after so many years of development and cost would be embarrassing and potentially effected negative on Top brass involved in the process. Therefore shahid latif decided not to end the projects. If PAF has their requirements and priority set from day 1st. Their level of benchmark identified clearly. Chinese mostly probably invited Pakistan to join J-10 development.
Why opt for J10 which has far less capacity to absorb better technologies from Non-Chinese sources than Jf17 has? Not to mention the economic axis that how J10 is on 'expensive' side?
Now Pakistan is stuck with hybrid of
3rd and 4th Gen design with 4+ gen electronics and bells and whistles.

And too accommodate RD series engine for export customers (Pakistan), J-31/35 is also trying to use RD engine.
Where are we stuck? Considering the condition of our economy and industrial base, our work is impressive.
Failure breads Failure.
There are certain delays and certain limitations. But failure is definitely not an appropriate word.
 
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