That Guy
PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2013
- Messages
- 14,553
- Reaction score
- 52
- Country
- Location
There's already been a few clashes, and if the rumors are true, Prigozhen may have just gotten what he wanted.
Russia Wagner Mutiny | Updates & Discussions
- Thread starter StormBreaker
- Start date
Tamerlane
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- May 30, 2012
- Messages
- 1,308
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
If clashes have happened they’re minor ones. As of now Russian forces are not engaging Wagner.
Falcon29
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2013
- Messages
- 31,647
- Reaction score
- -10
- Country
- Location
This whole war by Putin seems like a blunder. Didn't he already have those southern areas and Crimea?
Also how do we know this isn't a play by Putin to use tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine and claim chain of command broke down or something ?
Also how do we know this isn't a play by Putin to use tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine and claim chain of command broke down or something ?
This guy is usually smart but yeah we get it Marco you want to feel like some important person handing out important Intel. Just shut up. This situation can push Putin into desperation. I'm sure NATO is military prepared, but common folk are not prepared for anymore economic recession that can occur.
jhungary
MILITARY PROFESSIONAL
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2012
- Messages
- 19,295
- Reaction score
- 387
- Country
- Location
From the Military intelligence point of view, that make sense, as in it could be they wanted to fold Wagner into RUF .
Problem is, if it was me, I would do it on the down low. And the issue I have problem with for this is Prigozhin, is doing it on a high-profile way, this is probably THE MOST high profile way as possible, because unlike last couple of time, he didn't just go after the incompetence of Russian MOD (the time he stand in front of all those Wagner body) or he point the finger directly at Shogiu or Gerasimov, he also wasn't going about ammunition issue. This time, he is using his platform to basically talk about the Taboo in Russia, why Russian troop in Ukraine.
This is a big No-No in Russia, they don't talk about that, they don't even call this a war, and yet you have Prigozhin here, talking about how pointless for the Russian to invade Ukraine? That guy have platform you know, and people listen to his platform. I mean, he wasn't the leader of a PMC for nothing, you command a lot of influence to be able to get there. And I am pretty sure Russian censuring would not be able to touch him, so for him to parrot the Ukrainian "truth" on his channel is a big thing.
If this is done to put Wagner inline, the Russian could have do it on the down low, I mean, why present yourself like you don't have control on the overall situation, because make no mistake, no matter how this end or what purpose of this, this is going to reflect badly on the Russian, I can bet you million to donut Zelenskyy is laughing all the way from wherever he is, I mean, you want to control Wagner, you don't need to do that to make you look like a crown.
That's the only issue I have with this.
F-22Raptor
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2014
- Messages
- 16,980
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
That Guy
PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2013
- Messages
- 14,553
- Reaction score
- 52
- Country
- Location
F-22Raptor
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2014
- Messages
- 16,980
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
Wagner is far more north than I thought. It really looks like their aiming for Moscow
jhungary
MILITARY PROFESSIONAL
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2012
- Messages
- 19,295
- Reaction score
- 387
- Country
- Location
It's not fake, unless Prigozhin is willing to go to jail for 20 years or worse for this.
He criticizes the only topic he is not allow to, in fact, nobody is allowed to, in Russia, he questioned why Russian troop in Ukraine.
People listened to him you know, that's why he has this big PMC, saying this is like him putting a big target on his back. And you are telling me he is doing it for fake?? No way.........
HerbertPervert
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2023
- Messages
- 391
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
This war was just another stupid mistake in a long history of stupidity. Russians kept focusing on expanding instead of consolidating whatever they have. Instead of focusing on economics, education, technology, and industry like the US or China, they focus on territorial expansion while their people get poorer and the youth migrate for a better future. It's the typical mindset of people there, the same thing existed in Soviet times. Just keep expanding until you implode.
Russians could have just bought out Ukranians and each successive government would have been pro-Russian.
That Guy
PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2013
- Messages
- 14,553
- Reaction score
- 52
- Country
- Location
Russia is still in an old imperial/Soviet mindset which means expansion = new resources and growth. For an empire, expansion is life, and the day they stop expanding is the day they sign their death warrant.
Post updates about the Wagner - Russia - RFL/RCV conflict here please.
Wagner mercenary chief calls for armed rebellion against Russian military leadership
The FSB called on Wagner fighters not to follow Prigozhin’s orders.
ABC News
Wagner mercenary chief calls for armed rebellion against Russian military leadership
The FSB called on Wagner fighters not to follow Prigozhin’s orders.
ByPatrick Reevell
June 23, 2023, 7:20 PM
2:37
Inside the hospital answering the calls from the Ukraine frontlines
A trauma hospital has been working around t...Read More
The head of Russia's Wagner mercenary group appears to be threatening an armed rebellion against Russia's military leadership, after accusing it of deliberately shelling his forces on Friday.
Wagner's founder Yevgeny Prigozhin in an audio message on Friday claimed his forces would now punish Russia's defense minister and chief of general staff, telling other units to stand down and not offer resistance.
"There are 25,000 of us and we are coming to sort things out. ... Those who want to join us, it's time to finish with this mess," Prigozhin said.
Founder of Wagner private mercenary group Yevgeny Prigozhin speaks with servicemen during w...Show more
Press Service of "Concord" via Reuters
Prigozhin also accused defense minister Sergey Shoigu of "cowardly fleeing" from Rostov in southern Russia and ordering an attack on Wagner forces.
MORE: Russian defects from Wagner mercenary group, says it's committing war crimes in Ukraine
Prigozhin published a shaky video on Friday that showed a shattered group of trees and a burning trench, claiming it was a Wagner camp shelled by Russian troops and alleging many Wagner troops were killed.
Recent Stories from ABC News
Top Stories00:3100:36
Warren Buffett has given $50.7billion toward historicpledges to the Gates Foundation and others
Russia's defense ministry has already denounced the video, calling it an "information provocation."
A Kremlin spokesperson said Russian President Vladimir Putin is aware of the video.
"President Putin has been informed of all the events around Prigozhin. Necessary measures are being taken," the spokesperson said.
Russia's FSB has issued a statement accusing Prigohzin of calling for "the start of an armed civil conflict" in Russia.
The FSB called on Wagner fighters not to follow Prigozhin's orders and to assist in his arrest.
Prigozhin has denied this is a "military coup" calling it a "march for justice."
"They neglect the lives of soldiers, they forgot the word 'justice,' and we will return it," Prigozhin said in the video. "Therefore, those who destroyed our guys today, and tens of thousands of lives of Russian soldiers, will be punished."
White House National Security Council spokesperson Adam Hodge, released a statement that said the counsel is "monitoring the situation and will be consulting with allies and partners on these developments."
Gen. Sergey Surovikin, a senior Russian general who has been linked with Prigozhin, gave a video address calling on Wagner fighters to stop their rebellion and turn back.
Surovikin was appointed the top commander of Russia's 'special military operation' in Ukraine between last September and January. He was removed in January and replaced by Russia's chief of the general staff Valery Gerasimov, whom Prigozhin is trying to topple.
Recent Stories from ABC News
Top Stories00:2500:36
Texas businessman at centerof AG Ken Paxton'simpeachment pleads not guilty to federal charges
This comes hours after Prigozhin launched an extraordinary verbal attack on Russia's military leadership, and saying the invasion of Ukraine was based on lies.
Wagner chief says Russian invasion based on lies
The head of Russia's Wagner mercenary group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, said the Kremlin's justifications for its invasion of Ukraine are based on lies, in another extraordinary attack on the country's military and political leadership.
Prigozhin, a key ally of Putin, in a video posted Friday, contradicted the public explanations for the war, including the central claim made by Putin that the 2022 invasion was necessary to prevent an attack from Ukraine.
Since launching the war, Putin has painted it as a defensive operation to protect Russia. He's claimed it was needed to stop imminent large-scale attacks from Ukraine on largely Russian-speaking eastern regions in Donbas that Russia has occupied since 2014.
MORE: Russian defects from Wagner mercenary group, says it's committing war crimes in Ukraine
Founder of Wagner private mercenary group Yevgeny Prigozhin leaves a cemetery before the fun...Show more
Yulia Morozova/Reuters, File
But in his video address, Prigozhin, whose fighters have played a leading role in the war, said that was not true and there had been no imminent risk of attack from Ukraine.
"The ministry of defense now is trying to deceive society, the president, and tell a story there was insane aggression from Ukraine and that they intended to attack us with the whole NATO bloc," Prigozhin said.
"The Special Military Operation that began on Feb. 24 was started for completely different reasons," he said.
MORE: What to know about the Wagner group, a 'brutal' Russian military group fighting in Ukraine
Prigozhin has been in a public feud with Russia's defense ministry and its head Sergey Shoigu for months, blaming them for Russia's disastrous prosecution of the war. As Russia has faced deepening setbacks in Ukraine, he has become an unexpected, prominent critic of Russia's leadership, using social media to post almost daily video updates excoriating it as incompetent, but stopping short of directly criticizing Putin.
Prigozhin also said in Friday's video that the two goals Putin announced at the start of the war— the "demilitarization" and "de-Nazification" of Ukraine—were "pretty stories."
Instead, he blamed Shoigu, the defense ministry and a "clan of oligarchs" for starting the war. He accused Shoigu of seeking glory and wanting "to rob" Ukraine and divide up its assets.
Prigozhin's attacks are extraordinary in Russia, where public criticism of the authorities risks harsh punishment. Since the war began last year, criticism of the military leadership has become a criminal offense.
Yevgeny Prigozhin, the owner of the Wagner Group military company, addresses Ukrainian President V...Show more
Prigozhin Press Service via AP, File
That has led to speculation among experts about why Prigozhin is enjoying such license. Some observers have suggested Prigozhin might be speaking with the tacit approval of the Kremlin, which may be looking to shift blame for the war from Putin by scapegoating other figures such as Shoigu.
Prigozhin did not directly attack Putin in the video, instead claiming the president was being deceived by his generals and other figures around him. In reality though, Putin—not Shoigu—has taken the lead in making the claims around Donbas and de-Nazification the central justifications of the war, reciting them in his speech declaring his "Special Military Operation."
The implicit picture Prigozhin gave of Putin as weak and out of touch was also remarkable, implying he was manipulated by a clan of wealthy businessmen around him and lied to by his military. The war, as described by Prigozhin, was not about protecting Russia or resisting NATO expansion, but instead greed.
"The war was needed by oligarchs," Prigozhin said. "It was needed by that clan that today practically rule Russia." He added Russia's "sacred war" had "turned into a racket."
MORE: 2,000 trauma operations in a year: Inside Ukraine's leading battlefield hospital
Prigozhin lambasted Russia's military leadership for the huge casualties its troops have suffered. He accused Shoigu of hollowing out the armed forces under Putin through corruption and cronyism, crippling its ability to fight effectively and then catastrophically botching the invasion after believing it would be an easy victory.
"There is a total absence of management," Prigozhin said, calling Shoigu a "weak grandfather."
"Someone should answer for the lives of those soldiers," Prigozhin said in Friday's video.
Prigozhin this week has accused the defense ministry of once again presenting a falsely upbeat picture of how Russia is fending off Ukraine's ongoing counteroffensive in southern Ukraine. Russia's military has claimed to have largely stymied the counteroffensive and inflicted heavy losses on Ukraine.
Putin himself has trumpeted those alleged successes, repeating claims Ukraine has suffered heavy losses of Western equipment.
MORE: Russian army officer says he saw Ukrainian POWs tortured
But Prigozhin has said in Russia's position is far more difficult, as Ukraine presses attacks at two points on the Zaporizhzhia front in the south, and Moscow is at risk of another significant defeat.
"On the ground now, today, the Russian army is retreating on the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions," Prigozhin said in Friday's video. He added that Ukrainian forces were advancing "deeper and deeper and deeper into our defenses" around Bakhmut, which his Wagner forces helped capture weeks ago.
"The leadership of the ministry of defense is thoroughly deceiving the president, and the president is receiving reports that don't correspond with reality in any way," Prigozhin said.
"Two agendas are forming—one on the ground, the other on the president's table," he said.
Wagner mercenary chief calls for armed rebellion against Russian military leadership
Russia's Wagner mercenary group founder, Yevgeny Prigozhin, has said the Kremlin's justifications for invading Ukraine were based on lies.abcnews.go.com
@waz @Deino @LeGenD @mmr @F-22Raptor @reflecthofgeismar @Reashot Xigwin @CIA Mole @Ali_Baba
@PakFactor
I'm loss for words; this is the last thing I expected to happen to develop in Russian while in this conflict.
This leaves a trust vacuum that's exploitable. My guess is Wagner's chief is looking for a way out as he knows this isn't a sustainable conflict and Russia will lose.
This will be interesting but under the table, it was bound to come out.
That Guy
PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2013
- Messages
- 14,553
- Reaction score
- 52
- Country
- Location
My best guess is that this is a power move meant to gain control of the Russian military and remove Gerasimov along with Shoigu.
Rumor mill is saying that he's been given command of a chunk of Russian troops in Ukraine, and also that no one knows where Putin is with rumors saying he may have left Russia.
Similar threads
