Russia Wagner Mutiny | Updates & Discussions

[Ali_Baba]

Entering Moscow is nothing if Russian troops in the border (95 % of total troops) is still loyal to Putin and Putin is not in Moscow.


Prigozhin deal IMO is to allow him exit Russian and save his followers

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672661027912314886

Even if Wagner is allowed to "exit" Russia - Putin will try and kill Prigozhin for sure ... Putin is not the forgive and forget kind of guy.

 

[aziqbal]

Well, IMO both came to the conclusion , against each other both will lose … so even if no true solution on how to proceed is known, this is anyway better than open full civil war.

lets be honest Wagner does not really have that many options when they reach Moscow

Moscow is heavily defended and there is no plan to take such a capital of 12 million people, Wagner is in the 10s of thousands

Prigozhin is trying to gain more influence, he is more human than Putin he visits the cemeteries of the dead Wagner fighters and was even seen carrying a wooden log during the fight in Bakhmut and handed over brand new car keys to a mother of a dead fighter

Putin is in office in a suite with Zero emotions while Prigozhin gets vert angry and shouts and screams on camera, this makes Prigozhin more human than Putin and also more famous and in touch with the "people" his popularity has grown

last year we never heard of Prigozhin today he is second more powerful man in Russia

but Prigozhin never ever said anything against Putin and both are close friends

Putin will allows his defence chief to be humiliated but not Prigozhin, this forces both back to negotiating table and reaching a peaceful settlement even although from time to time tempers flare

 

[Tamerlane]

Prigozhin said that PMC "Wagner" deploys columns and goes back to the field camps​

The head of the PMC noted that he understands "full responsibility" for the fact that "Russian blood could be shed on one of the sides"​

MOSCOW, 24 June. /TASS/. PMC "Wagner" stops the movement of the columns, turns them around and returns to the field camps. This was stated by the head of "Wagner" Yevgeny Prigozhin in the Telegramchannel.

"Realizing all the responsibility for the fact that Russian blood will be shed on one of the sides, we turn our columns around and leave in the opposite direction to the field camps according to the plan," he said.

Earlier, the press service of the President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko reported that the presidents of Russia and Belarus discussed the situation around PMCs and agreed on joint actions. After that, Lukashenka held talks with Prigozhin, as a result of which an agreement was reached to stop the movement of armed persons of the Wagner company on the territory of Russia, a variant of "solving the situation" was prepared, which also included security guarantees for the fighters of the military company

https://tass.ru/politika/18110833

 

[aziqbal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672663313816358912

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672654445019299840

 

[Indos]

Even if Wagner is allowed to "exit" Russia - Putin will try and kill Prigozhin for sure ... Putin is not the forgive and forget kind of guy.

We will see whether Putin will be much softer on his plan in Ukraine or not ?

Even Erdogan is now acting in opposite after years in stubbornness

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/22/economy/turkey-hikes-interest-rates/index.html

Turkey hikes interest rates to 15% as Erdogan reverses policy on fighting inflation​

 

[Ali_Baba]

So - how is Putin going to explain this to the Russian people ? What kind of mental and verbal gymnastics will he indulge in?

His video address was quite dramatic and he can't exactly take that back that easily.

Putin has been damaged from this for sure - regardless of the current cessation ..

 

[Vergennes]

Something's really fishy here, hard to belive things will go as usual, not after Wagner threatened/denounced Putin's legitimacy as well as the one of the ministry of defence, not after Putin called them as traitors, not after defying Putin's power.

 

[CIA Mole]

So - how is Putin going to explain this to the Russian people ? What kind of mental and verbal gymnastics will he indulge in?

His video address was quite dramatic and he can't exactly take that back that easily.

Putin has been damaged from this for sure - regardless of the current cessation ..

until we have full story we dont know the point behind of all of this,

is it excuse for putin to get out of ukraine?

 

[LeGenD]

I think we know it wasn't anywhere close to 13,000 tanks from the pro-US website it was more like 4,000-7000 tanks

and USSR built over 70,000 tanks during the War so its even less than 10% of the tank fleet

a bit unfair to say it was favourable circumstances when less than 10% help came from West and Soviet Union really tied down almost 150 Nazi divisions and only deployed around 50 to the Western front it was really only the Battle of the Bulge where Germans really tried to fight hard

more like Allies had favourable conditions thanks to USSR

anyway coming back to the point Wagner has very small amount of men + material and Russian Army has way to much

less moral for the Russian army and higher moral for Wagner

anyway too early to predict but Prigozhin has never publicly gone against Putin so negotiations are under way to resolve this

because lets be honest what exactly will Wagner do when they reach Moscow reminds me of the 6th January Capitol attacks

"The most important things in this war are the machines.... The United States is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war." - Joseph Stalin

US was focused on developing Soviet logistics capability which is the most important and crucial component for sustained military operations in the war. This type of assistance slowly but surely helped turn the tide of the war in the East.

Lend Lease tanks came in handy when Soviets needed them most in the battles. This is important to understand as well.

The Wehrmacht had thrashed the Polish, the British, and the French before turning their attention towards Soviet Union in the East. But the Wehrmacht EXPOSED itself to assault from the WEST in the process. Americans arrived and reorganized Allied war-effort in the West. US-led forces routed legendary German military commander Rommel in Africa in 1942 and launched a major military operation in Italy in 1943. Germany could not ignore these advances and had to divert its precious resources from the East towards stopping US-led forces in Italy, this is why the Wehrmacht lost the Battle of Kursk in 1943. The Wehrmacht could not recover from this loss in the East. For Germany, the war was lost at this point.

 

[OldTwilight]

so , this the end of wagner.
Shuigo wins...

 

[F-22Raptor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672666783378030593

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672666622035734533

 

[aziqbal]

so , this the end of wagner.
Shuigo wins...

No

Putin will do anything to keep Prigozhin happy

he may have agreed to fire both Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu and his deputy which has helped in Wagner standing down

Russia replaces defence minister like sweets much easier to agree to do that rather than fight Wagner

 

[F-22Raptor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672667310551597056

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

2016 TR: High Military Council decisions were leaked, FETÖ brought the coup attempt forward as a matter of urgency and the coup attempt began on the evening of July 15th (forcing to premature birth). During the coup, the air force was largely under the control of the coup plotters. However, the de facto leader of the coup was killed in the 6th-7th hour. By the 10th-11th hour of coup attempt, it was under control and mass arrests began in the morning. The preparations for this coup attempt had been going on for more than 20 years, for which they had occupied all critical institutions, including the military intelligence and even the military schools, with political support. They lost everything they had accumulated for decades in one day.

That is the official Turkish version.
The question one must all oneself is why do a military coup when You can take over the government in a somewhat legal manner by appointing the right (your) guy.
A much more plausible version is that Erdogan was planning a purge of FETÖ, and top FETÖ members found out about the plan and tried a countercoup.
How come Turkey could produce lists of 100s of thousands to be arrested within days of the coup.

In Russia is is much more clearcut.

 

[TheImmortal]

"The most important things in this war are the machines.... The United States is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war." - Joseph Stalin

US was focused on developing Soviet logistics capability which is the most important and crucial component for sustained military operations in the war. This type of assistance slowly but surely helped turn the tide of the war in the East.

Lend Lease tanks came in handy when Soviets needed them most in the battles. This is important to understand as well.

The Wehrmacht had thrashed the Polish, the British, and the French before turning its attention towards Soviet Union in the East. But the Wehrmacht EXPOSED itself to assault from the WEST in the process. Americans arrived and reorganized Allied war-effort in the West. US-led forces routed legendary German military commander Rommel in Africa in 1942 and launched a major military operation in Italy in 1943. Germany could not ignore these advances and had to divert its precious resources from the East and recommit it towards stopping US-led forces in Italy, this is why the Wehrmacht lost the battle of Kursk in 1943. The Wehrmacht could not recover from this loss in the East. For Germany, the war was lost at this point.

It’s a intresting thought experiment-if Nazi Germany did not attack Russia would it have won WW2? The answer is quite likely —even if the Americans joined the war. The amount of resources, men, and equipment that was lost fighting Russia was stupendous.

Nazi leadership for all their knowledge and military superiority over their military neighbors went against history and the teachings of Napoleon on attacking Russia.

Foolish move to open that front. Between that and removing scientists off the Nazi nuclear bomb program to fund Sci-Fi Wonder weapon projects, the Nazi leadership lost an easily winnable war.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672667310551597056

Lol bro stop posting. You have been wrong non stop.

Thanks for the laughs tho with your “analysis”.