Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments

[Microsoft]

Taiwan is republic of China, it's about two Chinas being united, it has nothing to do with foreign countries and governments.

That's what Putin is saying about Ukraine. He has historically claimed Ukraine to be a made up country and the people to be the same.

 

[beijingwalker]

That's what Putin is saying about Ukraine. He has historically claimed Ukraine to be a made up country and the people to be the same.

It's not what I say, it always is, go and check the official name of Taiwan yourself.

 

[Patriot forever]

Well, I don't think I know what Putin Think, I don't pretend to know what Putin Think, but if I was in Putin position, I wouldn't do what he did, that's what I can say.

Maybe he think there are not going to be an insurgency? Or maybe he don't care, I honestly cannot speak for the mind for another person.

But tradition wisdom suggested that he should have know the circumstance is difference.

Russia is not concerned about Eastern Ukraine.

It will have free republics mostly bordering it. Which is an extremely pro Russian area. They fought for 8 years with many dead.

There was a survey done a day or so ago ( conducted by the West). The people in Eastern Ukraine are still less hostile to Russia than western Ukraine given the fact that the conflict is mostly in Eastern Ukraine.
People forget how ethnic Russians dominated areas were treated before the war and the hostility you are shown on media ( mainstream or projected through social media) is heavily filtered to suite a particular narrative.

 

[Clutch]

I'm a bit lost on all this Neo-Nazi stuff. As far as I know both the Ukrainians and Russians are Slavs and thus on Hitler's sh*t list. Or are they treating others on the list even worse...like the Roma.

Actually there are racial fault lines that are culturally and historically significant between the two. For an outsider it may be as confusion as those who may look at the Pakistani versus Indian racial differences. We Pakistani and Indian know of them but may not be evident for others.

Ukrainian look as themselves as the pure race of the original Rus' people:

Rus' people (Old East Slavic: Рѹсь; Modern Belarusian, Russian, Rusyn, and Ukrainian: Русь, romanised: Rus'; Old Norse: Garðar; Greek: Ῥῶς, romanised: Rhos) were an ethnos in early medieval eastern Europe. The scholarly consensus holds that they were originally Norse people, mainly originating from present-day Sweden.

While the Ukrainian look at the Russians as a mongrel race and an un-pure mixture of
Russian-Slavic, Tatars, Bashkir , Turkic, Chuvashs, Mongols,
Chechens, etc.

Russia is significantly more ethnically diverse than Ukraine.

It's a stupid racial divide.

 

[jhungary]

Yes. Ukraine can not be Chechnya. But seeing what he did in Chechnya & got away with it, I think he might be emboldened to the extent that he thinks that he can repeat the same in Ukraine. Very arrogant, but understandable.

He wasn't completely gotten away tho. And Ukraine is significantly different than Chechnya

Chechen Republic is a small parcel of landlocked land south of Caucasus with 1.3 million people, Ukraine is the second largest country in Europe at the gateway to EU with 45 millions people. The different is enormous.

One thing I am willing to be tho, it's Putin is quite seriously underestimating EU response, bear in mind NATO and US didn't do shit in this, EU done a lot more damage than US did. I mean the SWIFT and the Central Bank sanction and their effort to pick out and squeeze everyone of those oligarch is probably a surprise to Putin, especially EU depends on his gas to survive....

 

[beijingwalker]

U.S. Has No Good Choices Dealing With Russian Aggression​

 

[jhungary]

Russia is not concerned about Eastern Ukraine.

It will have free republics mostly bordering it. Which is an extremely pro Russian area. They fought for 8 years with many dead.

There was a survey done a day or so ago ( conducted by the West). The people in Eastern Ukraine are still less hostile to Russia than western Ukraine given the fact that the conflict is mostly in Eastern Ukraine.
People forget how ethnic Russians dominated areas were treated before the war and the hostility you are shown on media ( mainstream or projected through social media) is heavily filtered to suite a particular narrative.

Well, less hostile is one thing, whether or not they will raise an insurgency is another. I mean, do you think Eastern Ukraine will be spare if Western Ukraine decided to raise an insurgence? Look back at Afghanistan, not all of the Province are hostile to NATO force, but they engage insurgency with Taliban either way, either they are forced to do it, or they are into the clause, either way, just because Eastern Ukraine are more "Forgiving" than the western part does not mean the entire country will not suffer some degree of hard core insurgency...

And insurgency is bad for Russia in a long term.

 

[tower9]

That's what Putin is saying about Ukraine. He has historically claimed Ukraine to be a made up country and the people to be the same.

It's absolutely not the same in the eyes of international law.

China-Taiwan is an unfinished civil war. All of the world's countries recognize One China, the only question is whether they recognize Beijing or Taipei as the seat of China's government. Of course, the vast majority of the world's countries, including the West, all recognize Beijing because it is overwhelmingly more powerful.

Ukraine has been an independent country since 1991. Ukraine and Russia recognized each other as independent countries and have respective embassies in each others' country. The world recognizes that there is a Ukraine and there is a Russia, two separate countries.

In addition, there is the question of ethnicity. Even though Ukrainians and Russians are very close, basically Eastern Slavs, they are still considered separate ethnic groups. Of course, there are many ethnic Russians in Ukraine and this is why there are huge separatist movements rising in Ukraine as it takes an anti-Russian course.

However, in Taiwan, the people there are Han Chinese, the exact same ethnic group as the majority of Mainland China. They also speak Mandarin Chinese and even their local dialect, Taiwanese, is basically derived from the same dialect of Southern Fujian province.

So in both legal and ethnic terms, the Taiwan issue is an unresolved civil war.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

It's a stupid racial divide.

They have too much free time on their hands if they are going down this road.

More likely they just hate each other and as mentioned earlier they are just using it as a smokescreen since they both are on the wrong side of the Nazi coin.

I'm sure the German NeoNazis would have no problem running both over with a tank...and they'd run over the American Neo Nazis too just for good measure.

 

[khansaheeb]

Yes. Ukraine can not be Chechnya. But seeing what he did in Chechnya & got away with it, I think he might be emboldened to the extent that he thinks that he can repeat the same in Ukraine. Very arrogant, but understandable.

Putin is a very calculating fox, let's see how it plays out. Russians think it is going to plan, not sure whose plan.

 

[tower9]

Actually there are racial fault lines that are culturally and historically significant between the two. For an outsider it may be as confusion as those who may look at the Pakistani versus Indian racial differences. We Pakistani and Indian know of them but may not be evident for others.

Ukrainian look as themselves as the pure race of the original Rus' people:

Rus' people (Old East Slavic: Рѹсь; Modern Belarusian, Russian, Rusyn, and Ukrainian: Русь, romanised: Rus'; Old Norse: Garðar; Greek: Ῥῶς, romanised: Rhos) were an ethnos in early medieval eastern Europe. The scholarly consensus holds that they were originally Norse people, mainly originating from present-day Sweden.

While the Ukrainian look at the Russians as a mongrel race and an un-pure mixture of
Russian-Slavic, Tatars, Bashkir , Turkic, Chuvashs, Mongols,
Chechens, etc.

Russia is significantly more ethnically diverse than Ukraine.

It's a stupid racial divide.

The ancient Rus people were basically an integration of a Nordic elite who ruled over a Slavic majority, but eventually they fused into one people.

Ukrainians are more racially pure and are thoroughly Caucasian. Ethnic Russians are European and share a lot of overlap with Ukrainians and Belarussians, but obviously Russia is a massive continental country with many other ethnic groups, so there is a lot more intermixing with Asiatic ethnic groups. Take their defense minister, Shoigu, for example. He is half Tuvan and half Russian. The perception of Russia as a more racially heterogeneous country has often been fuel for the anti-Russian sentiments of certain right wing Neo Nazi groups in Ukraine.

 

[thetutle]

In addition, there is the question of ethnicity. Even though Ukrainians and Russians are very close, basically Eastern Slavs, they are still considered separate ethnic groups. Of course, there are many ethnic Russians in Ukraine and this is why there are huge separatist movements rising in Ukraine as it takes an anti-Russian course.

However, in Taiwan, the people there are Han Chinese, the exact same ethnic group as the majority of Mainland China. They also speak Mandarin Chinese and even their local dialect, Taiwanese, is basically derived from the same dialect of Southern Fujian province.

I am not sure that the Taiwanese Chinese more similar to Beijing Chinese than Russians are to Ukranians.

I believe Russians and Ukranians are more similar than different Chinese groups.

I also think the Bosnian language is way way more similar to Russian than Cantonese is to Mandarin. This "Han Chinese thing is not what many people think".

I always compare the term "Han Chinese" to the term "white European".

 

[Microsoft]

It's absolutely not the same in the eyes of international law.

China-Taiwan is an unfinished civil war. All of the world's countries recognize One China, the only question is whether they recognize Beijing or Taipei as the seat of China's government. Of course, the vast majority of the world's countries, including the West, all recognize Beijing because it is overwhelmingly more powerful.

Ukraine has been an independent country since 1991. Ukraine and Russia recognized each other as independent countries and have respective embassies in each others' country. The world recognizes that there is a Ukraine and there is a Russia, two separate countries.

In addition, there is the question of ethnicity. Even though Ukrainians and Russians are very close, basically Eastern Slavs, they are still considered separate ethnic groups. Of course, there are many ethnic Russians in Ukraine and this is why there are huge separatist movements rising in Ukraine as it takes an anti-Russian course.

However, in Taiwan, the people there are Han Chinese, the exact same ethnic group as the majority of Mainland China. They also speak Mandarin Chinese and even their local dialect, Taiwanese, is basically derived from the same dialect of Southern Fujian province.

So in both legal and ethnic terms, the Taiwan issue is an unresolved civil war.

Sure you can justify it how you like but Putin's justification is valid in its own way too. Many of the reasons (maybe not all) are the same justifications Putin has used for invasion. And for practical purposes during war time international law becomes "open to interpretation". For example in case of war Taiwan may officially declare independence and then international law says something else.

 

[tower9]

Sure you can justify it how you like but Putin's justification is valid in its own way too. Many of the reasons (maybe not all) are the same justifications Putin has used for invasion. And for practical purposes during war time international law becomes "open to interpretation". For example in case of war Taiwan may officially declare independence and then international law says something else.

No. This is a matter of international law, not opinion. This is why China, even though it is an ally of Russia, won't support Russia's unilateral aggression against Ukraine, because it is a violation of territorial integrity and sovereignty. Those concepts actually protect China's claim on Taiwan, instead of hurt it, in the eyes of international law. This is why China is very committed to defending those concepts.

 

[gambit]

Geopolitically, Russia joining NATO is a non-starter. I mean, that is just the way it is.

Which make Ukraine, back in 2008 as an allies or you can even call it satellite state of Russia, joining impossible.

What happened in 1994 was another issue. US cannot allow the "loose" Soviet nuke to be in a place they cannot be accounted for, and the most logical choice is to round them up and give them back to Russia. I mean, do we have enough resource to get 1700+ nuke? Soviet Nuke no less? I don't think so, so with or without NATO, we are not going to keep those nuke anyway, the baseline for us is that it will not fall into some extremist group that can turn one of those into a dirty bomb and use it in US. Loose nuke, and out of work nuclear scientist is a dangerous combo in 1994....

Probably not 1700. But...

The Soviet Union collapsed in Dec '91. One night in Aug '92, we just completed some night air refuel training and waiting for four crews to land and that would the end of the shift. I can still remember that night. At about 2200, the wing king called down and effectively shut down all four squadrons' ramps. Not the runway. Just the squadrons' areas. We were told to get off the flightline and no one was to get out until the wing king himself said clear. Then we saw the cops ran all over the place and it looked like they called up even the off duty guys. The next thing shocked the shit out of all of us: They turned off all the stadium lights. The flightline was all dark. We can barely make out any shape from the lights from the rest of the base.

Then we all heard the distinctive whine of a C-5. Any AF guy or gal who have been on the flightline long enough would learn to know that whine. That C-5 taxied all the way to one end of the flightline that was no longer in use. I know that area because the base allowed the local SCCA club to use for racing and I was in that club racing my IROC-Z Camaro. Then a chain of fuel trucks ran out and for a couple hrs they refueled and do whatever some things to that C-5. That C-5 never shut off its engines. Then the C-5 taxied out and took off. Then they turned back on the stadium lights and allowed us to return to regular duties on the flightline.

For yrs, in our reunions and over beers and pizzas we occasionally speculated about that night. Never had a clue what happened. Then on our 2002 reunion, we met a retired CMSGT who was chief of the Transient Alert group in '92. The T/A group is responsible for meeting and taking care of any visiting aircraft. He told us that C-5 flight engineer said they were carrying nukes from an eastern European country that sold US the nukes. We were: SOLD...??? Eventually, it came out that the former Soviet satellites were short on cash so they were selling anything they could disassemble.