Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments

[thetutle]

This was very much related to the Nordstream 2 pipeline. If that project went ahead, Germany and much of Europe would be very dependent on Russia for energy, even more so than they are now.

So why didn't Russia wait 6 months for Nord stream to become operational? Is Putin that stupid?

 

[jhungary]

Also, NATO did not take Ukraine precisely because the West was using Ukraine as a sacrificial lamb.

This is why I said this is not a NATO trap, if you can see it, certainly Putin can see it. And NATO is not hiding it, as they are using Ukraine as a cautionary tale for other European member that were not in NATO. This is as open as it gets....

Either that or this is indeed a trap and Putin is more incompetent than I thought.

 

[gambit]

Well, if this is a NATO trap, they wouldn't tell EVERYONE IN THE WORLD that they are not going to get involved from the get go.

Again, if Ukraine is important for NATO, they would have taken them back in 2008 when they apply, and again in 2015, the truth is, as the former Polish Foreign Minister Sikorski said, "Ukraine is not worth NATO to fight for, you can spare the BS they were divided, that's just an excuse, West Germany was divided when they joined NATO. " This is a very clear idea and NATO is not hiding it any.

Ukraine were only anti-Russian since they took Crimea, I mean, would you be?

And I am pretty sure if MIC is involved, they would push for a NATO war, you can't make money selling Javelin or Stinger, you need to be able to sell fighters, ships and advance military equipment.

When Russia promised Ukraine that Russia would allow sovereignty if Ukraine give up those 1700 nuclear warheads, that was when Russia was too weak to forcibly retake those warheads, what if NATO offered membership then? That would add 1700 nuclear warheads to NATO arsenal. But not exactly under NATO control because they were legally Russia's. Not only that, Ukraine did not have a reputation of being a stable power, let alone a nuclear weapons state, like the UK or France. Still, I wonder what would have been the responses if NATO made that offer.

 

[Madni Bappa]

These are conscripts kind of the b team as far as Russia is concerned. It’s well equipped troops are fighting near Donbas.

I was going to say this. Because I've seen Russian regulars better equipped that were deployed to Syria.

 

[Menace2Society]

This raises the question if Russia is a superpower. We will see its ability to project force. If it fails here, it will be even worse for them.

Nukes dont make a superpower. North Korea has nukes too. Probably enough nukes to destroy America. But its not a superpower

The US will travel across the world to pre-empt threats to their borders.

If Russia would like a buffer to Europe then thats just the way of the world. Its always been like this. People are just shocked now because its not a middle easterner dying. These powers fight by proxy and through other countries.

Isn't it interesting how NATO withdrawl from Afg preceeded this move? Months apart. I don't think Russia is willing to play the waiting game anymore.

 

[Patriot forever]

Ukraine took an anti-Russian turn in 2014, that's why Russia seized Crimea. Although I will agree that doing this was opportunistic and impatient and ultimately self-destructive as it made Ukraine even more anti-Russian, but why would Russia seize Crimea if Ukraine was a friendly country?

Also, NATO did not take Ukraine precisely because the West was using Ukraine as a sacrificial lamb. It constantly teased about taking it to incite Russia, but it had no real intention to because taking Ukraine would set the West up for a direct conflict with Russia, which it was not going to do. Ukraine as a sacrificial lamb was a useful strategic tool and it has worked with completely shutting Russia off from Europe.

This was very much related to the Nordstream 2 pipeline. If that project went ahead, Germany and much of Europe would be very dependent on Russia for energy, even more so than they are now. This would mean they could not take as hostile a stand against Russia as Washington would like. Integration of Russia with Europe also means greater Eurasian integration and by that extension, the successful implementation of China's Belt and Road. So sacrificing Ukraine to draw Russia in and thus, sending Europe into hysteria, kills many birds with one stone.

In the broader aspect yes the intent was to avert the merger of europes industrialization with Russian resources.

It would have greatly harmed the Anglo European nexus.

Anyways IMO the likely outcome of this war will be the emergence of Europe as a 3rd power axis. People might not see it but with Europe ramping up militarization the less they will be dependant on American bases for protection.

 

[thetutle]

I was going to say this. Because I've seen Russian regulars better equipped that were deployed to Syria.

So russia obviously does not like these soldiers, and wants them to die in the occupation of Ukraine.

 

[Madni Bappa]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1499962368939466754

All these long columns remind me of playing command and conquer generals. Or A bridge too far movie based on market garden.

 

[jhungary]

When Russia promised Ukraine that Russia would allow sovereignty if Ukraine give up those 1700 nuclear warheads, that was when Russia was too weak to forcibly retake those warheads, what if NATO offered membership then? That would add 1700 nuclear warheads to NATO arsenal. But not exactly under NATO control because they were legally Russia's. Not only that, Ukraine did not have a reputation of being a stable power, let alone a nuclear weapons state, like the UK or France. Still, I wonder what would have been the responses if NATO made that offer.

Geopolitically, Russia joining NATO is a non-starter. I mean, that is just the way it is.

Which make Ukraine, back in 2008 as an allies or you can even call it satellite state of Russia, joining impossible.

What happened in 1994 was another issue. US cannot allow the "loose" Soviet nuke to be in a place they cannot be accounted for, and the most logical choice is to round them up and give them back to Russia. I mean, do we have enough resource to get 1700+ nuke? Soviet Nuke no less? I don't think so, so with or without NATO, we are not going to keep those nuke anyway, the baseline for us is that it will not fall into some extremist group that can turn one of those into a dirty bomb and use it in US. Loose nuke, and out of work nuclear scientist is a dangerous combo in 1994....

 

[tower9]

So why didn't Russia wait 6 months for Nord stream to become operational? Is Putin that stupid?

That's why I said he miscalculated.

 

[Microsoft]

Russia is pushing back, Ukraine is just the first to start with.

Would China feel the same way if they invade Taiwan?

 

[thetutle]

That's why I said he miscalculated.

Oh yeah. he certainly did.

 

[beijingwalker]

Would China feel the same way if they invade Taiwan?

Taiwan is republic of China, it's about two Chinas being united, it has nothing to do with foreign countries and governments.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Well, I don't think I know what Putin Think, I don't pretend to know what Putin Think, but if I was in Putin position, I wouldn't do what he did, that's what I can say.

Maybe he think there are not going to be an insurgency? Or maybe he don't care, I honestly cannot speak for the mind for another person.

But tradition wisdom suggested that he should have know the circumstance is difference.

Yes. Ukraine can not be Chechnya. But seeing what he did in Chechnya & got away with it, I think he might be emboldened to the extent that he thinks that he can repeat the same in Ukraine. Very arrogant, but understandable.

 

[Madni Bappa]

So russia obviously does not like these soldiers, and wants them to die in the occupation of Ukraine.

Looks like Gambit has clocked out and you've clocked in. Dayum