Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2
- Thread starter waz
- Start date
StraightEdge
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2021
- Messages
- 2,262
- Reaction score
- -6
- Country
- Location
Epic Russian trolling.
LeGenD
MODERATOR
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 15,813
- Reaction score
- 162
- Country
- Location
You're either purposely deflecting and looking the other way or you're genuinely blind if you refute that external entities had no hand in the regime change operation in Ukraine. John McCain, Victoria Nuland, Oleksii Arestovych, Joe Biden just to name a few who have been caught via tapped phones or on video admitting to purposely incite the populous and engineer the Maidan against the democratic government elect in Ukraine. But as stated, continue to bury your head in the sand.
Are you for real? jstor is based in the US. Of course they'll release "academic research" which is peer reviewed by pro-US individuals before publication. I wouldn't take it as ultimate truth. Just like the UN, such organisations are manipulated.
Funny how you use the Soviet Union and Russia interchangeably. They're not the same thing.
And no I don't think Russia is purely innocent. But let's put it this way, their record is far better then NATO's in-terms of interference in other countries affairs. Take Africa for Example, now having had enough of the West are ditching the dollar and taking a stand to the decades of enslavement. On the other hand, their elected leaders are welcoming China & Russia.
Even a blind man can see who the aggressor is.....
And it's those "Ukrainian People with Values" who now realise that Ukraine is now the most corrupt it has ever been under the leadership of the Clown and his pal Ihor Kolomoyskyi and they are getting nothing but misery under their visionary leadership.
Let's see.
The younger generation of Ukrainians were demanding The European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement. This sentiment existed as far back in 2004.
The run-up to the vote has left the country deeply divided, with the nationalist Ukrainian-speaking west supporting 50-year-old Yushchenko while the industrialized Russian-speaking east backs 54-year-old Yanukovich.
It has also created a clash of generations between older people who came of age during the Soviet era and feel an affinity with fellow-Slav Russia, and a new Westward-looking youth that wants Ukraine to join a modern Europe.
Ukrainians Protest Election Fraud – DW – 11/22/2004
The outcome of a bitter election in Ukraine on Sunday was anything but clear Monday, with exit polls showing the pro-Western challenger as the winner, but official results indicating otherwise.
www.dw.com
Yanukovich rejected The European Union-Ukraine Association Agreement in 2013. This decision was in part due to Russian pressure. Details in following links:
Yanukovych confirms refusal to sign deal with EU
Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych reaffirmed on Nov. 26 his refusal to sign a political association and free… - Nov. 26, 2013. By Oksana Grytsenko
www.kyivpost.com
Ukraine withdraws from signing the Association Agreement in Vilnius: The motives and implications
Kyiv’s decision should be seen not only in the context of increasing pressure from Russia, but mainly that of Ukraine’s domestic conditions.
Why Did Ukraine's Yanukovych Give in to Russian Pressure on EU Deal?
In an interview with PBS NewsHour's Judy Woodruff, Steven Pifer discusses the causes behind the mass protests that have erupted in Ukraine and explains the reasons why Ukrainian President Yanukovych chose not to sign the association agreement with the European Union.
www.brookings.edu
This decision sparked Euromaiden protests across Ukraine:
"The postponement of signing the Association Agreement with the EU caused the largest protests in Ukraine since the Orange Revolution. On 24 November the demonstrations peaked in the biggest Ukrainian cities, which totalled about 150,000 people, including the largest demonstration in Kyiv, which between 80,000 and 100,000 protesters attended. The scale of the protests is unsurprising. It is noteworthy that only some of them have been organised by opposition parties; the protests have largely arisen from grassroots social mobilisation. The government decided not to use force on a larger scale (although ‘tent cities’ in places including Odessa and Dnipropetrovsk were broken up); their hope is that after the summit in Vilnius ends, the protests will cease of their own accord. Indeed, it seems that the weak and divided opposition will be unable to maintain the mood of protest among the public, and within a few days the scale of the protests will drop off. The mistake the protest organisers made was to try and give the demonstrations a party-political character, even though the protesters demonstrated a clear aversion to opposition slogans and politicians. The protests have no natural leader (although this role could potentially be filled by Yuriy Lutsenko, a former head of the Interior Ministry, the leader of the Third Republic movement, and one of the organisers of the Orange Revolution, who is seen more as an activist than a politician), and their extent will be limited by differences within the opposition itself."
Euromaiden protests commenced on 27-11-2013 and were led by Ukrainian youth:
PHASE 1: PROTESTS AGAINST SUSPENSION OF ASSOCIATION AGREEMENT
NOVEMBER 21, 2013 — DECEMBER 1, 2013
The protesters were primarily university students. They gathered at Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square) and remained there 24 hours per day. Nov. 30: At 4 am Berkut riot police attacked a group of protesting students who remained at the Maidan. Video footage of the attack show that the attack was unprovoked. Both protestors and journalists were beaten -- some quite badly.PHASE 2: DEMANDS FOR YANUKOVYCH TO RESIGN.
DECEMBER 1, 2013 — JANUARY 16, 2014
Rallies of as many as 800,000 were held every Sunday at the Maidan. Many started calling Maidan -- Euromaidan. A number of scuffles took place during this phase, which resulted in protestors and journalists being severely beaten. The Euromaidan protests were not initiated by any particular political or social organization. No particular body was in charge -- this was a grassroots effort by many individual groups sharing the same goal -- that President Yanukovych resign. The 3 opposition leaders (Yatseniuk, Klitschko & Tyahnybok) began negotiating with Yanukovych, in an effort to de-escalate the crisis. Those at Euromaidan did not recognize the opposition as their representatives (they did not give the opposition a mandate) creating a disconnect between protesters and the opposition leaders. Recognizing this, the opposition leaders would return to Euromaidan after each meeting to report on their negotiations.PHASE 2 (CONTINUED). THE GOVERNMENT STRIKES BACK
DECEMBER 1, 2013 — JANUARY 16, 2014
“Titushky” (government paid provocateurs) began interfering with protesters, including sabotaging the peaceful nature of the protests by initiating assaults against police and then walking away from the scene. Titushky were paid $25 Hryvnas per day. Those who organized titushky (typically, government/police officials) were paid up to $600 per day. The government organized a pro-government “Anti-Maidan” movement bringing in paid volunteers from around Ukraine to Kyiv . Anti-Maidan rallies were also organized in other cities in Ukraine, including Kharkiv and Dnipropetrovsk. Pro-government groups, including foreign media and government controlled media began disseminating various forms of misinformation, including claims of Euromaidan being an anti-semitic movement. Jewish leaders and newspapers throughout the world strongly reacted to the claim and underscored that not one anti-semitic incident occurred during the 3 month protests. In fact, Euromaidan consists of a cohesive collection of various ethnic minorities and religions in addition to ethnic Ukrainians.PHASE 2 (CONTINUED). AUTOMAIDAN
DECEMBER 1, 2013 — JANUARY 16, 2014
Protesters organize a new form of protest called “Automaidan” where the protest was taken to the homes of the President and other government leaders. Titushky began roaming central Kyiv and began burning cars, kidnapping people, including journalists and injured protesters from hospitals. A number of protesters were killed and over a hundred went missing. Automaidan began patrolling the streets of Kyiv in an effort to keep titushky at bay and to maintain peace. Social media (Facebook & Twitter) is playing an increasingly important role in supporting the efforts of the protestors -- like never before. Journalists launched their own television stations and independent news services and began broadcasting live on the Internet. Euromaidan evolved into a movement that could not be ignored. Euromaidan asks the EU, the USA and other countries to intervene by imposing sanctions on Ukraine’s government leaders and Ukraine’s oligarchs. It is frustrated with the slow action (and ineffective words) of world leaders in helping to de-escalate the situation.PHASE 3: ANTI-CIVIL LAWS ARE RAMMED THROUGH PARLIAMENT.
JANUARY 16, 2014
The President’s party -- the Party of Regions ram through a series of anti-protest laws, modelled by those in force in Russia that restrict the freedom of speech and gathering of people. The laws came with severe penalties -- more severe than those in Russia. The opposition leaders continued negotiating with Yanukovych, but the results were generally rejected by Euromaidan which saw the opposition as ineffective and was generally suspicious of the negotiations.PHASE 4: A PEACEFUL PROTEST TURNS VIOLENT
JANUARY 19, 2014 — JANUARY 27, 2014
Following a rally, a group of protesters -- led by a faction called the Right Sector becomes involved in skirmishes on Hrushevskoho Street, a short walk from the Maidan. This was the first instance of non-peaceful protests. Protesters use sticks and throw rocks and molotov cocktails. Skirmishes turn into a battle that lasts nearly a week, during which four protesters are fatally shot by Berkut officers -- including one who was simply holding a flag. At night, protesters create a protective smokescreen between them and Berkut police by burning tires. Kyivans bring firewood and tires to the Maidan. Police used stun grenades and shot rubber bullets at protesters indiscriminately, target journalists and medics. Injured protesters were being kidnapped from hospitals by titushky and police units. Medical units with operating rooms are established at Euromaidan, but these are attacked by riot police.PHASE 4: A PEACEFUL PROTEST TURNS VIOLENT
JANUARY 19, 2014 — JANUARY 27, 2014
Following a rally, a group of protesters -- led by a faction called the Right Sector becomes involved in skirmishes on Hrushevskoho Street, a short walk from the Maidan. This was the first instance of non-peaceful protests. Protesters use sticks and throw rocks and molotov cocktails. Skirmishes turn into a battle that lasts nearly a week, during which four protesters are fatally shot by Berkut officers -- including one who was simply holding a flag. At night, protesters create a protective smokescreen between them and Berkut police by burning tires. Kyivans bring firewood and tires to the Maidan. Police used stun grenades and shot rubber bullets at protesters indiscriminately, target journalists and medics. Injured protesters were being kidnapped from hospitals by titushky and police units. Medical units with operating rooms are established at Euromaidan, but these are attacked by riot police.PHASE 5: NEGOTIATIONS CONTINUE
JANUARY 28, 2014 — FEBRUARY 20, 2014
A truce is called. Prime Minister Azarov resigns and an amnesty law for protestors is introduced -- but the law is contingent on protesters clearing the Maidan -- which in general, they do not agree to do. As a sign of good will, protestors clear one area of the territory and relinquish control of a number of government buildings they have used as their base since Dec.1st. The opposition leaders continue negotiations and continue seeking support from the Euromaidan. By this time, the opposition has developed a social contract with Euromaidan: the political process in Ukraine cannot be “business as usual”. It is understood that in their negotiations the opposition leaders must present the demands of the public and answer to the public. All “deals” made between the opposition and Yanukovych had to be “approved” by those standing at on the Maidan. The approval was conducted with cheers or a show of hands -- with as many as 20,000 hands -- similar to how the democratic Ukrainian Cossack governments used to vote in the 1600’s.PHASE 6: PROTESTERS ARE KILLED IN TWO MAJOR ATTACKS
FEBRUARY 18, 2014 — FEBRUARY 20, 2014
Feb 18: As they walk towards Parliament in a Peaceful March, protesters are attacked by riot police dropping stun grenades and shooting from rooftops. About ten protesters were killed and dozens were injured. The protester's camp is assaulted during the night. Feb 19: A truce is declared. Feb 20: Unprovoked, the government initiated a major attack on protesters using snipers -- targeting heads, necks and chests. 101+ protesters died and nearly a 1000 were injured. 215 remain hospitalized -- 14 remain in intensive care. The numbers of deaths continue to climb.PHASE 7: THE FINAL DEAL IS REJECTED AND YANUKOVYCH FLEES
FEBRUARY 21, 2014
The opposition leaders and Yanukovych came to an agreement that would de-escalate the crisis. The agreement was signed by the foreign ministers of Poland, France and Germany. It called for new Presidential elections (10 months later), a return to the 2004 constitution limiting presidential power, and a new amnesty law. The deal was presented to the Maidan later that evening and was not well-received. One protester from a self-defense unit threatens an armed offensive if President Yanukovych does not resign by 10 am the next morning. Many MPs from Yanukovych’s party resign, disgusted with Yanukovych’s actions. Some believe that many of them resigned simply to protect their own interests. Later that evening reports circulated suggesting that Yanukovych had fled. Other government officials also flee. Government leaders in other regions (Kharkiv, in particular) begin talking about splitting the country in two. A campaign of misinformation begins provoking the public into believing that a split in the country is imminent. The western press repeats the concern.PHASE 8: THE COUNTRY MOVES FORWARD, A NEW GOVERNMENT IS FORMED
FEBRUARY 22, 2014 — FEBRUARY 27, 2014
With the resignation of the Speaker of Parliament and the fact that the President and acting Prime Minister are missing, the Parliament proceeds to form an interim government. All decisions were voted upon with a constitutional majority meaning that not even the President could veto the decisions. Parliament selects Turchynov as the new speaker, votes to revert to the 2004 constitution, dismisses a number of cabinet ministers and impeaches the President. Turchynov assumes the role of Acting President in alignment of the 2004 constitution, and new Presidential elections are set for May 25. An interim government – consisting largely of professionals and civic activists - is named with Maidan’s advance approval. Journalists find presidential offices and his residence deserted. Footage from security cameras show Yanukovych fleeing by helicopter the evening of Feb 22 -- roughly during the time that the previously agreed upon deal was being presented to the Maidan. World leaders recognize the interim government. Russia says that this government is not legitimate and endorses Yanukovych.
A timeline of the Euromaidan revolution - Euromaidan Press
A brief history of protests that started a cascade of events of global significance
euromaidanpress.com
Yanukovich attempted to sabotage Euromaiden protests to no avail. Protestors called on the international community to impose sanctions on Yanukovich government. Attempts to suppress Euromaiden protests left over 100 dead. Ukraine's Parliament de-legitimized Yanukovich's presidency and he fled to Russia to escape arrest and accountability for his bad decisions.
November 2013 through February 2014
Just days before it is to be signed, Yanukovych announces that he will refuse to sign an association agreement with the European Union to bring Ukraine into a free trade agreement. He cites pressure from Russia as a reason for his decision.
The announcement sparks huge protests across Ukraine — the largest since the Orange Revolution — calling for Yanukovych to resign. Protesters begin camping out in Kyiv's Maidan, also known as Independence Square, and occupy government buildings, including Kyiv's city hall and the justice ministry.
In late February, violence between police and protesters leaves more than 100 dead in the single bloodiest week in Ukraine's post-Soviet history.
Ahead of a scheduled impeachment vote on Feb. 22, Yanukovych flees, eventually arriving in Russia. Ukraine's parliament votes unanimously to remove Yanukovych and install an interim government, which announces it will sign the EU agreement and votes to free Tymoshenko from prison.
The new government charges Yanukovych with mass murder of the Maidan protesters and issues a warrant for his arrest.
Russia declares that the change in Ukraine's government is an illegal coup. Almost immediately, armed men appear at checkpoints and facilities in the Crimean Peninsula. Putin at first denies they are Russian soldiers but later admits it.
February 22: Ukraine’s parliament deposes Yanukovich, who leaves Kyiv. An interim government is established. Putin denounces a coup d’état and declares that “Russia reserves the right to use all available options, including force as a last resort”.
From the Maidan protests to Russia's invasion: Eight years of conflict in Ukraine
Russia’s military invasion of Ukraine on February 24 placed the smaller eastern European country at the centre of international concern. FRANCE 24 traces the chronology of the conflict between Moscow…
amp.france24.com
Yanukovich sought Russian assistance to restore him to power. Russian troops invaded Donbas and Crimea in 2014.
Russian "coup narrative" is baseless.
White House dispatched its Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland to Ukraine to convince Yanukovich to accept The European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement. She also cautioned against attempts to suppress Euromaiden protests. Her suggestions fell on deaf ears.
Yanukovych 'Promised Solution In 24 Hours'
EU foreign-policy chief Catherine Ashton says President Viktor Yanukovych has promised to take steps toward solving the crisis in Ukraine within 24 hours.
www.rferl.org
After Yanukovich fled from the country, a part of Nuland's telephonic conversation with the American ambassador for Ukraine was leaked, entire conversation and its context is unknown. She was bashing EU as well.
US official apologises to EU counterparts for undiplomatic language
State department’s diplomat for Europe, Victoria Nuland, apparently said ‘**** the EU’ speaking of Ukraine crisis, though department did not directly confirm it was Nuland’s voice on tape
It is very easy to build a narrative on social media with video editing tools. Put photos of the Euromaiden protests on the background, a recording of Nuland's leaked call, and mention CIA. There you go. People will like your videos. Facts be damned.
Let me guess. Nuland activated a Yuri Mind Control device in Ukraine that was planted in a secret location.
Nuland also visited Russia in 2021:
As for your JSTOR statement, this is how you do research? How did you get a degree?
F-22Raptor
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2014
- Messages
- 16,980
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
That's interesting, it's uncommon for Russia to operate mstas so close to the frontline. Usually, they fire from the edge of their range.
In Russian force structure, only corps level commander can normally move their longer ranged 152mm SPGs, including mstas.
Ali_Baba
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- May 27, 2018
- Messages
- 6,417
- Reaction score
- 1
- Country
- Location
Last edited:
Haldorss
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2023
- Messages
- 919
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Can you not go heavy on moderating? It feels oppresive, you may not notice since you are a mod.
Second question is, are you pakistani and support freedom? For obvious reasons of allowing as much as possible.
F-22Raptor
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2014
- Messages
- 16,980
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
jhungary
MILITARY PROFESSIONAL
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2012
- Messages
- 19,295
- Reaction score
- 387
- Country
- Location
You won't have faster reaction time because you don't know what is what when they are in Russian airspace, it may be civ air or other air activities, you only care about those air traffic coming from Russia airspace into Ukraine airspace, so they don't need to put it as close to the frontline as possible, the frontline is about 40km from Russia, and that system have a 120+ km detection range.
As I suggested before that system the Russian hit is most likely a decoy.
The German Italian IRIS-T air defence 1 system that’ll protect 30 sq kilometres ( that’s radius of around 40 miles) yikes are these Figures correct ! Logic of it being so close to the action going by the radius figures !
