Russia ready to supply 'standard' Su-35s to China, says official

[Saifullah Sani]

Russia is ready to supply 'standard' versions of the Su-35 combat aircraft to China, Sukhoi first deputy director general Boris Bregman recently told IHS Jane's .

"During talks we informed the Chinese side that we can supply a standard version of the Su-35 fighter, which has been fully completed, tested, and received Russian Air Force certification," he said on the sidelines of Airshow China 2014 in Zhuhai.

Bregman said that the adaptation of the fighter to meet customer requirements - or 'Sinification' - can be performed only as part of a supplementary contract. This work may include some design and development to include the integration of different enhancements, additional algorithms, and Chinese-language user interfaces.

According to the Bregman, such Sinification will take a lot of time as any changes to the aircraft design require additional flight tests and the air launch of armaments. "Flight testing all the Su-35's air-launched missiles takes about 1,000 hours alone. We can't go there," Bregman said.

"I think that the contract will be signed at the end of 2014 or at the beginning of 2015," he said. "There are no obvious political or technical reasons hindering the signing of the contract. The only thing to be done is the elaborate consideration of some details and technical issues.

"I am convinced that if everything is carried out in the proper way, Chinese pilots will be conducting flight demonstrations in 2016," Bregman said.

United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) president Mikhail Pogosyan told reporters at Zhuhai that there was no danger that the Su-35 would be a victim of unlicensed copying: a major concern for Russia given the unlicensed copies of the Su-27 that China began producing as the J-11 and J-15 carrier derivative.

"I believe that there is no direct danger," Pogosyan said. "It is very difficult to make a copy of a high-tech product as there is more to it than meets the eye. As of today I don't know the cases when the copy could achieve global success on the world aircraft market."

"I believe that permanent progress, permanent movement forward is the key method to fight copying. The Russian industry is not stuck - it is moving forward," he added.

COMMENT
Pogosyan's comment on whether a "copy could achieve global success on the world aircraft market" slightly ignores the point that China's previous reverse engineering of the Su-27 was solely for domestic consumption.

Other Russian industry sources told IHS Jane's at Zhuhai that the Russian insistence on a minimum buy of 48 aircraft has since softened to a procurement of just 24 units. The issue of a minimum buy is important because Russian officials believe China is really only interested in the Su-35's NIIP Irbis-E passive electronically scanned array radar and the 117S engine.

The minimum number of aircraft to be procured is, therefore, a way for Russia to ensure that the Chinese pay an appropriate price to acquire these technologies before they copy them, the sources said.

Senior East Asian officials recently told the New York Times that they believe the deal could be scuppered by these issues, but a recent factor that may expedite the sale is Russia's international isolation due to its annexation of Crimea and intervention in eastern Ukraine. In this scenario, China becomes a closer friend as Moscow distances from the West.

Russian president Vladimir Putin and others have said defence exports to China could be one area in which bilateral relations improve, and the two sides agreed to extend defence industrial co-operation in talks on 18-19 November - the same time that the sale of 100 RD-93 turbofans to China emerged.

Russia ready to supply 'standard' Su-35s to China, says official - IHS Jane's 360

 

[Superboy]

Su-35S has PESA. J-10B and the latest J-11 have AESA. China does not have to copy radar. I think China will copy TVC.

Methinks China can sell J-10B to Russia so Russia can copy DSI technology which Russia lacks.

 

[Barmaley]

Export deal for Su-35 to China was approved in 2010 by Russian government, IRRC.
China also ordered 6 divisions of S-400 worth 3 bln dollars.

Su-35S has PESA. J-10B and the latest J-11 have AESA. China does not have to copy radar. I think China will copy TVC.

Methinks China can sell J-10B to Russia so Russia can copy DSI technology which Russia lacks.

I think, Irbis-E has better characteristic.

Ach, I mistake ordinary inlet with DSI, nevermind.

 

[applesauce]

Export deal for Su-35 to China was approved in 2010 by Russian government, IRRC.
China also ordered 6 divisions of S-400 worth 3 bln dollars.




I think, Irbis-E has better characteristic.

Ach, I mistake ordinary inlet with DSI, nevermind.

we've heard about the su-35 story for years and years, to this day it has always been, "soon" or "next year" and to this day nothing has come of it, and each and everyday that passes, its making less and less sense for china to buy the su-35

in addition there is no way china would buy "standard" su-35's as those are incompatible with china datalink, weapons and sensors. in all likelihood china is probably ahead of russia in electronics by now due to its massive consumer electronics sector and wealth(buying duel use items from the west)

 

[Beast]

Exactly, the Russian say the deal will concluded after zhuhai airshow 2014. So nothing happen and Russian now say end of year or early 2015. How many lies must they create?

 

[Echo_419]

View attachment 157239

Russia is ready to supply 'standard' versions of the Su-35 combat aircraft to China, Sukhoi first deputy director general Boris Bregman recently told IHS Jane's .

"During talks we informed the Chinese side that we can supply a standard version of the Su-35 fighter, which has been fully completed, tested, and received Russian Air Force certification," he said on the sidelines of Airshow China 2014 in Zhuhai.

Bregman said that the adaptation of the fighter to meet customer requirements - or 'Sinification' - can be performed only as part of a supplementary contract. This work may include some design and development to include the integration of different enhancements, additional algorithms, and Chinese-language user interfaces.

According to the Bregman, such Sinification will take a lot of time as any changes to the aircraft design require additional flight tests and the air launch of armaments. "Flight testing all the Su-35's air-launched missiles takes about 1,000 hours alone. We can't go there," Bregman said.

"I think that the contract will be signed at the end of 2014 or at the beginning of 2015," he said. "There are no obvious political or technical reasons hindering the signing of the contract. The only thing to be done is the elaborate consideration of some details and technical issues.

"I am convinced that if everything is carried out in the proper way, Chinese pilots will be conducting flight demonstrations in 2016," Bregman said.

United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) president Mikhail Pogosyan told reporters at Zhuhai that there was no danger that the Su-35 would be a victim of unlicensed copying: a major concern for Russia given the unlicensed copies of the Su-27 that China began producing as the J-11 and J-15 carrier derivative.

"I believe that there is no direct danger," Pogosyan said. "It is very difficult to make a copy of a high-tech product as there is more to it than meets the eye. As of today I don't know the cases when the copy could achieve global success on the world aircraft market."

"I believe that permanent progress, permanent movement forward is the key method to fight copying. The Russian industry is not stuck - it is moving forward," he added.

COMMENT
Pogosyan's comment on whether a "copy could achieve global success on the world aircraft market" slightly ignores the point that China's previous reverse engineering of the Su-27 was solely for domestic consumption.

Other Russian industry sources told IHS Jane's at Zhuhai that the Russian insistence on a minimum buy of 48 aircraft has since softened to a procurement of just 24 units. The issue of a minimum buy is important because Russian officials believe China is really only interested in the Su-35's NIIP Irbis-E passive electronically scanned array radar and the 117S engine.

The minimum number of aircraft to be procured is, therefore, a way for Russia to ensure that the Chinese pay an appropriate price to acquire these technologies before they copy them, the sources said.

Senior East Asian officials recently told the New York Times that they believe the deal could be scuppered by these issues, but a recent factor that may expedite the sale is Russia's international isolation due to its annexation of Crimea and intervention in eastern Ukraine. In this scenario, China becomes a closer friend as Moscow distances from the West.

Russian president Vladimir Putin and others have said defence exports to China could be one area in which bilateral relations improve, and the two sides agreed to extend defence industrial co-operation in talks on 18-19 November - the same time that the sale of 100 RD-93 turbofans to China emerged.

Russia ready to supply 'standard' Su-35s to China, says official - IHS Jane's 360

@cirr what's up with this deal is it even real or imagination of Russian media outlets

 

[damiendehorn]

LOL...china may buy, russia ready to sell, sale imminent, this nope next year....may be....LOL....you got to laugh....they've been trying to sell this bird to almost every one, brazil, india, china.....why would any air force that can afford such expensive birds buy new SU35s when the same manufacturer has its replacement already flying?

 

[Haitham]

This work may include some design and development to include the integration of different enhancements, additional algorithms, and Chinese-language user interfaces.

Any one have idea about the enhancements that China wants???

 

[Sanchez]

I guess all the purchases are under discussion. For Su-35 China would like to incorporate Chinese weapon systems.

 

[PRC2025]

View attachment 157239

COMMENT
Pogosyan's comment on whether a "copy could achieve global success on the world aircraft market" slightly ignores the point that China's previous reverse engineering of the Su-27 was solely for domestic consumption.
.

Russia ready to supply 'standard' Su-35s to China, says official - IHS Jane's 360

Exactly. I am kind of "tired" of hearing some Russian "experts" pointing out how Chinese systems haven't had the "success in the export market" as the same way Russia has had since 1990s.

The huge difference is that while Russian arsenal was rotting away, Russia chose to export the "best" Russia had in many different areas such as Su-30; now wanting to export Su-35 and MiG-35 but there are just way too few customers. And then there is T-90 MBT, MLRS Smerch, Yak-130; the artillery MTSA, Improved Kilos, etc. Russia even exported a refurbished carrier to India, while Russia's own carrier is basically falling apart.

This is the reason Russia has launched a so-called "armaments plan" streching throughout 2020s and beyond, because Russia let most of its arsenal to rot away, and today, it's way too old.

China doesn't "go this path", as China focuses on democomissioning the old stuff, and introducing new stuff - and there is still a lot to decommission and to upgrade. So China has ZERO interest in selling their own J-10, J-11, J-15, J-16 + J-31 and J-20 BEFORE they have been introduced in PLAAF in considerable numbers.

Another point is that Russia produce units ways to slow compared to what China wanted at that time. Russia couldn't simply produce fast enough everything China wanted.

Good example is Sovremmeny destroyers, among other examples. Russia sold four of them to PLAN, and while PLAN already had introduced 2 Type 052C destroyers by 2005, China was still waiting for the last 2 Sovremmenny's to arrive in 2006.

Now China has 052D and very soon 055, while Russia has just started to test its first Gorskhov frigate.

So the point is, China cannot "wait" for Russia. If China had been waiting for "everything" from Russia, we would be still discussing Su-35 deliveries and no J-20 or J-31 would have ever existed.

Same goes for this Lada-class SSK; Russia itself has been waiting for since 2004 - and it's still not ready. Can't blame China for developing it's own advanced SSKs, and wanting to produce weapons by itself - not relying on Russia, as it did in the 1990s and early 2000s.

Regarding Su-35 deliveries, I'll believe it when I see then introduced in PLAAF. Everyone who knows something about this, knows that China is only interested in the engine. Rest of the plane is not something China is interested in. That's why China always according to these Russian reports, always wants to lower down the number of Su-35, while it's Russia that wants to increase the number of Su-35.

So its funny how some Russian officials "diss" so-called "Chinese copies", and tell everyone how it's hard to "copy" a high-tech product. But at the same time, it is Russia that wants to sell higher number of units, while it is China that wants to lower the number of units.

So if China wasn't happy with its own versions, China would have ordered 200+ units as it did in 1991/1992 regarding Su-27, before China decided to go their own way.

The small edge Russia has so far beside jet engines is S-400 SAM, Yasen submarine and Tu-160 bombers.

However, this is all from late 1980s Soviet tech which gave Russia a good grounding base to expand on. So this is rarely something Russia has "researched" from scratch, but has expanded further on from good Soviet tech from the late 1980s.

I am not "dissing" Russia or anything like that - I like Russia and hope it continues to go its independent path against the U.S., while it continues to deepen its excellent parthership and friendship with China through SCO, BRICS, etc.

What I am addressing is this "constant whining" from some Russian officials about Chinese "products not being successful regarding weapons exports". The fact is, China produces most of the weapons for themselves, and today there are only a few more things China is interested in regarding Russian tech. Everything else, China already has by itself, and simply doesn't need it.

It is also important to remember that China has been sanctioned regarding weapons tech for many years now,(still is) so in order to require tech with money and to buy technology, it has been blocked from certain Imperial countries in order to do so. China has the money, but it's "blocked". Therefore, it had to do what it can in order to aquire as much tech as it can through different sources, and to build up its defence, which I think China has done very good job with as of now.

We can also use the example of Russian export "success" Talwar frigates. While Russia built 6 of them for India, Russia on its own didn't build a single equal frigate which is Grigorovich class frigate, up until now.

So while Russia is "successful" delivering 6 Talwars to India, while the Russian Black Sea Fleet was rotting away, then so be it - if that's what some Russian officials describe as "success".

China on the other hand has about 18 Type 054A frigates, and several more to come. Also the Type 054B. But since China hasn't "exported these much", I guess it's "not a success" according to some Russian officials. Neither is 052C and 052D, lol.

 

[Superboy]

IMO Russia needs to crank up production of Su-35S for itself and increase the number to at least 100 by 2017.

 

[Beast]

IMO Russia needs to crank up production of Su-35S for itself and increase the number to at least 100 by 2017.

With a contracting economy due to failing oil price, i don't see it possible.