Russia rants at India's military buy !

[livingdead]

Not correct at all. The Russians have been as reliable as the Israelis. The French a little less so. While the Americans, hmmm.......

But bear in mind that is a general statement above.

The fact that an official can openly criticise indian procurement policy shows how they take us granted. Imagine an american/isralei/french saying the same.
And I dont think we should be 'grateful' to them for providing us weapons, we could have easily been in the other camp. It was as much in their interest as ours to be friends.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

India is buying western hardware due to 3 reasons.

1) Several western military platforms are superior than their Russian counterparts. For example C-17 GM III, Rafael, Apache etc.
2) We cant afford being overdependent on Russian weapons. Hence we are diversifying.
3) Buying western platforms has political implications too.

All that above being said, there are some things that India will never deal with the West for!!!
Strategic weaponry for instance....

 

[MilSpec]

And he may be wrong......

The truth lies somewhere in between. So on his part; Mr.Komardin needs to wake up- to some realities; and he needs to wake Rosoboronexport to better manufacturing and delivery standards. Then Indian business will not go any where else.

What has riled Mr.Komardin is the fact that "big-ticket/aka Malaiwala" items have gone to Uncle Sam; but he overlooks that India still makes its bulk purchases from Russia.

Just seems that Indian Vodka was not agreeable to Mr.Komardin.

The fact of the matter is now you can afford foriegn maal, 20 years ago you couldn't, that why we bought mostly russian stuff... Today we are buying rafales for nearly 20 billion dollar, assume the budget was 5 billion dollar, I am pretty sure we'd be buying Mig29K's. wont we?

 

[livingdead]

For the dear friends who think Russia is unreliable partner
Please bear in mind Russia is India's greatest ally, close friend and a very reliable supporter. No money or defense deals can ever repay the what russia did for us in 1971, When the 7th fleet was about to knowck on our doors, it was the russian destroyers with the Nuke subs underneath, that stopped them in their tracks.

It was the russians who have helped us the most with the most critical nuclear plants we run, its the russians who provided us the first BVR's, it was the russians which custom made an aircraft that was even superior to ones they were fielding at the time. It was the russian who offered us a fith gen fighter, when the rest of world was still working out to remove the sanction imposed on us, it was the russians who provided India with a nuclear sub, it was the russians who provided us the first missile boats and anti ship missiles.

Calling them unreliable is the most idiotic thing to say. We are very very lucky that we have russians on our side, and not the others. Ask our neighboring nation how the journey has been with the other side!

soviet union is not same as russia. Time changes and so does nation's priorities. Nobody is saying we should not be friends but they should know we are not 'junior' partner anymore.

Russia gains a lot too by having a big and influential country on board.

 

[MilSpec]

The fact that an official can openly criticise indian procurement policy shows how they take us granted. Imagine an american/isralei/french saying the same.
And I dont think we should be 'grateful' to them for providing us weapons, we could have easily been in the other camp. It was as much in their interest as ours to be friends.

Are you sure the other side wouldn't throw your wishlist in the trash??

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The fact that an official can openly criticise indian procurement policy shows how they take us granted. Imagine an american/isralei/french saying the same.
And I dont think we should be 'grateful' to them for providing us weapons, we could have easily been in the other camp. It was as much in their interest as ours to be friends.

Ref the underlined: it shows how close the relationship actually is, and how much the tropical sun affected Mr.Viktor Komardin.....

 

[MilSpec]

soviet union is not same as russia. Time changes and so does nation's priorities. Nobody is saying we should not be friends but they should know we are not 'junior' partner anymore.

You can think that if you want, but russia is the sucessor to USSR, and although it has liberalised its stance, it policy in it's sphere of interest and it's standing in global affairs remains consistent with it's predecessor, It still works as a counter to to NATO in it's sphere of interest.

In regional context it still provides the same support to India. I wonder how would you react if russia tomorrow offered Su 30 with rvv ae and rvv sd with N011M bars to pakistan. I am sure you would miss russia as a strategic ally, wont you?

 

[livingdead]

Ref the underlined: it shows how close the relationship actually is, and how much the tropical sun affected Mr.Viktor Komardin.....

well, I will call it 'friendship' if Indians were as candid about the relationship, I have yet to see any Indian going to russia and talk sh*t about their delay in delivering an aircraft carrier.

We all have 'unreliable' friends, and sometimes, I am willing to pay to get things done rather than take free help from such friends.

You can think that if you want, but russia is the sucessor to USSR, and although it has liberalised its stance, it policy in it's sphere of interest and it's standing in global affairs remains consistent with it's predecessor, It still works as a counter to to NATO in it's sphere of interest.

In regional context it still provides the same support to India. I wonder how would you react if russia tomorrow offered Su 30 with rvv ae and rvv sd with N011M bars to pakistan. I am sure you would miss russia as a strategic ally, wont you?

Pakistan is a smaller market, russians are not doing a favour. Nor are we doing a favour to them.
Its the tacit agreement and we are giving enough money to keep them away from pakistan.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Russia rants at India’s military buys
Head of air show team claims costly western purchases lack logic

Bangalore, Feb. 8: The Russian bear raged here today.

Viktor Komardin, the head of the Russian delegation to India’s military airshow Aero India, alleged that Delhi has bought aircraft, submarines and weapons from western countries at inflated prices “without military logic”.

Komardin is also the deputy chief of the Russian state arms exporter, Rosoboronexport.

He questioned the financial logic of the Indian government to procure weapons systems from countries that were not as longstanding partners as Russia despite getting no transfer of technology. “Ask your minister of finance. May be he has so much money to spare and India has no social problems,” he responded, barely able to conceal the sarcasm.

Komardin called a group of journalists to a small room in the Russian pavilion here and said his ire was directed against the Indian media that was not accurately reflecting Russia’s “rootedness” in the Indian armed forces. But he said the decisions to buy the Boeing-made C-17 Globemaster and Lockheed Martin-made C-130J Hercules (both US firms) transport aircraft were big mistakes because they were not suited to Indian military needs.

Such decisions are made by the government of India and not by the Indian media.

“It is not fair. Arms sales in military technology projects are now all politics. Billions of dollars are paid for procurements without transfer of technology. It is improper, it is unfair,” Komardin said. “I accept politics but fair should be fair. Russia is a strategic partner of India. We want to be dealt with as partners,” he added.

The angry remarks came even as a team of the Russian Knights, an aerobatic team from Moscow, landed here this afternoon after a three-day delay that a member of his delegation confirmed was caused “by delay in internal security clearance”. The issue was resolved only after Russian ambassador Alexander M. Kadakin requested national security adviser Shiv Shankar Menon to intervene.

A spokesperson for the Russian Knights team said after landing in Bangalore: “We were held up in Delhi for legal issues raised by the government of India and we could come here only because of diplomatic intervention.” The Knights had a similar problem in the UK in December and that was put down to incomplete paperwork by the Russians.

Komardin said India was also buying weapons and equipment from companies and countries that were also selling to Pakistan. The French, he said, had sold Agusta submarines to Pakistan and were selling Scorpene submarines to India. Lockheed Martin had sold Hercules aircraft to both Pakistan and India. Boeing, too, was selling to both Pakistan and India.

“But we do not do it, India does not want us to do it and we are a friend as a friend can be. We do not turn our backs to India.”

Komardin put out figures that are not officially borne out. He alleged India had bought 10 C-17 Globemaster aircraft for $10 billion though the long-haul strategic airlifters did not configure into the Indian military mindset.

“These aircraft are used for trans-Atlantic and transpacific requirements by the US military. What are they? Just big cargo planes. And you overlook the Il-76 that you (India) have been using for 20 years!” he said.

The C-17 contracted by India in 2009 through the Pentagon’s foreign military sales programme cost half the figure of $10 billion that Komardin quoted. The aircraft are bigger than the IL-76 procured from Russia. A C-17 can carry 75 tonnes and an IL-76, loads of 50 tonnes each.

Even as Komardin was railing against the shift in Indian military procurement policies, Boeing was taking another team of Indian journalists in a C-17 on a sortie over Bangalore’s skies to give them a feel of the aircraft.

The C-130J Hercules that the Indian Air Force has procured, he said, cannot accommodate the Russian-supplied Smerch multi-barelled rocket launchers. This would tell on the Indian armed forces’ operational abilities.

Komardin said Russia also thinks the choice of the Boeing-made Chinook helicopter for the IAF’s heavy-lift needs was wrong.

“What is the Chinook compared to (the Russian) Mi-26 (that was also in the competition)? It is a baby. The Mi-26 can lift the Chinook by the neck!” he said.

This is true. About three years ago, a Chinook helicopter of the US forces that went down in Afghanistan was salvaged by a chartered MI-26. Photographs of the MI-26 with the Chinook underslung have since been widely publicised.

The IAF has selected the Chinook for negotiations but the twin-rotor helicopter has not yet been contracted.

Komardin said Russia has $7-billion worth of arms transfer projects with India going currently, compared to the contracts that were signed with other countries. “I am pained that despite this, I find the Russian role in building India’s defence industry diminished,” he said.

Next year, it would be the 50th anniversary since India first signed a licensed production agreement with (the former) Soviet Russia for the MiG 21 FL fighter aircraft. Russia now has more than two dozen licence production agreements going with India. Among the projects are land systems involving tanks and armoured personnel carriers for the army, aircraft such as the Sukhoi 30 MKi for the air force and the Gorshkov carrier for the navy.

Asked about erratic supplies of spares for Russian-origin equipment and delays in deliveries, Komardin fumed that was also the case with other suppliers. He said the French had delayed the delivery of Scorpene submarines to the Indian Navy by three years, as the delivery of the Goshkov carrier has been delayed. “But there is talk in India of imposing penalties on us and not on the French,” he rued.

He said the equipment that India was procuring from Russia’s competitors would not stand the test in harsh conditions in the subcontinent.

“Russian armament is robust for warfighting, not effete. If we will sell you a chair, we will sell you a chair that lasts, not decorate it with foam and leather that will not last,” he said.

Komardin said that unlike its competitors, Russia did not want to publicise its defence deals with India “because we do not believe in disclosing Indian national secrets”.

Russia rants at India’s military buys

Russia come to us we love Russia

Russia rants at India’s military buys
Head of air show team claims costly western purchases lack logic

Bangalore, Feb. 8: The Russian bear raged here today.

Viktor Komardin, the head of the Russian delegation to India’s military airshow Aero India, alleged that Delhi has bought aircraft, submarines and weapons from western countries at inflated prices “without military logic”.

Komardin is also the deputy chief of the Russian state arms exporter, Rosoboronexport.

He questioned the financial logic of the Indian government to procure weapons systems from countries that were not as longstanding partners as Russia despite getting no transfer of technology. “Ask your minister of finance. May be he has so much money to spare and India has no social problems,” he responded, barely able to conceal the sarcasm.

Komardin called a group of journalists to a small room in the Russian pavilion here and said his ire was directed against the Indian media that was not accurately reflecting Russia’s “rootedness” in the Indian armed forces. But he said the decisions to buy the Boeing-made C-17 Globemaster and Lockheed Martin-made C-130J Hercules (both US firms) transport aircraft were big mistakes because they were not suited to Indian military needs.

Such decisions are made by the government of India and not by the Indian media.

“It is not fair. Arms sales in military technology projects are now all politics. Billions of dollars are paid for procurements without transfer of technology. It is improper, it is unfair,” Komardin said. “I accept politics but fair should be fair. Russia is a strategic partner of India. We want to be dealt with as partners,” he added.

The angry remarks came even as a team of the Russian Knights, an aerobatic team from Moscow, landed here this afternoon after a three-day delay that a member of his delegation confirmed was caused “by delay in internal security clearance”. The issue was resolved only after Russian ambassador Alexander M. Kadakin requested national security adviser Shiv Shankar Menon to intervene.

A spokesperson for the Russian Knights team said after landing in Bangalore: “We were held up in Delhi for legal issues raised by the government of India and we could come here only because of diplomatic intervention.” The Knights had a similar problem in the UK in December and that was put down to incomplete paperwork by the Russians.

Komardin said India was also buying weapons and equipment from companies and countries that were also selling to Pakistan. The French, he said, had sold Agusta submarines to Pakistan and were selling Scorpene submarines to India. Lockheed Martin had sold Hercules aircraft to both Pakistan and India. Boeing, too, was selling to both Pakistan and India.

“But we do not do it, India does not want us to do it and we are a friend as a friend can be. We do not turn our backs to India.”

Komardin put out figures that are not officially borne out. He alleged India had bought 10 C-17 Globemaster aircraft for $10 billion though the long-haul strategic airlifters did not configure into the Indian military mindset.

“These aircraft are used for trans-Atlantic and transpacific requirements by the US military. What are they? Just big cargo planes. And you overlook the Il-76 that you (India) have been using for 20 years!” he said.

The C-17 contracted by India in 2009 through the Pentagon’s foreign military sales programme cost half the figure of $10 billion that Komardin quoted. The aircraft are bigger than the IL-76 procured from Russia. A C-17 can carry 75 tonnes and an IL-76, loads of 50 tonnes each.

Even as Komardin was railing against the shift in Indian military procurement policies, Boeing was taking another team of Indian journalists in a C-17 on a sortie over Bangalore’s skies to give them a feel of the aircraft.

The C-130J Hercules that the Indian Air Force has procured, he said, cannot accommodate the Russian-supplied Smerch multi-barelled rocket launchers. This would tell on the Indian armed forces’ operational abilities.

Komardin said Russia also thinks the choice of the Boeing-made Chinook helicopter for the IAF’s heavy-lift needs was wrong.

“What is the Chinook compared to (the Russian) Mi-26 (that was also in the competition)? It is a baby. The Mi-26 can lift the Chinook by the neck!” he said.

This is true. About three years ago, a Chinook helicopter of the US forces that went down in Afghanistan was salvaged by a chartered MI-26. Photographs of the MI-26 with the Chinook underslung have since been widely publicised.

The IAF has selected the Chinook for negotiations but the twin-rotor helicopter has not yet been contracted.

Komardin said Russia has $7-billion worth of arms transfer projects with India going currently, compared to the contracts that were signed with other countries. “I am pained that despite this, I find the Russian role in building India’s defence industry diminished,” he said.

Next year, it would be the 50th anniversary since India first signed a licensed production agreement with (the former) Soviet Russia for the MiG 21 FL fighter aircraft. Russia now has more than two dozen licence production agreements going with India. Among the projects are land systems involving tanks and armoured personnel carriers for the army, aircraft such as the Sukhoi 30 MKi for the air force and the Gorshkov carrier for the navy.

Asked about erratic supplies of spares for Russian-origin equipment and delays in deliveries, Komardin fumed that was also the case with other suppliers. He said the French had delayed the delivery of Scorpene submarines to the Indian Navy by three years, as the delivery of the Goshkov carrier has been delayed. “But there is talk in India of imposing penalties on us and not on the French,” he rued.

He said the equipment that India was procuring from Russia’s competitors would not stand the test in harsh conditions in the subcontinent.

“Russian armament is robust for warfighting, not effete. If we will sell you a chair, we will sell you a chair that lasts, not decorate it with foam and leather that will not last,” he said.

Komardin said that unlike its competitors, Russia did not want to publicise its defence deals with India “because we do not believe in disclosing Indian national secrets”.

Russia rants at India’s military buys

Russia come to us we love Russia

Russia rants at India’s military buys
Head of air show team claims costly western purchases lack logic

Bangalore, Feb. 8: The Russian bear raged here today.

Viktor Komardin, the head of the Russian delegation to India’s military airshow Aero India, alleged that Delhi has bought aircraft, submarines and weapons from western countries at inflated prices “without military logic”.

Komardin is also the deputy chief of the Russian state arms exporter, Rosoboronexport.

He questioned the financial logic of the Indian government to procure weapons systems from countries that were not as longstanding partners as Russia despite getting no transfer of technology. “Ask your minister of finance. May be he has so much money to spare and India has no social problems,” he responded, barely able to conceal the sarcasm.

Komardin called a group of journalists to a small room in the Russian pavilion here and said his ire was directed against the Indian media that was not accurately reflecting Russia’s “rootedness” in the Indian armed forces. But he said the decisions to buy the Boeing-made C-17 Globemaster and Lockheed Martin-made C-130J Hercules (both US firms) transport aircraft were big mistakes because they were not suited to Indian military needs.

Such decisions are made by the government of India and not by the Indian media.

“It is not fair. Arms sales in military technology projects are now all politics. Billions of dollars are paid for procurements without transfer of technology. It is improper, it is unfair,” Komardin said. “I accept politics but fair should be fair. Russia is a strategic partner of India. We want to be dealt with as partners,” he added.

The angry remarks came even as a team of the Russian Knights, an aerobatic team from Moscow, landed here this afternoon after a three-day delay that a member of his delegation confirmed was caused “by delay in internal security clearance”. The issue was resolved only after Russian ambassador Alexander M. Kadakin requested national security adviser Shiv Shankar Menon to intervene.

A spokesperson for the Russian Knights team said after landing in Bangalore: “We were held up in Delhi for legal issues raised by the government of India and we could come here only because of diplomatic intervention.” The Knights had a similar problem in the UK in December and that was put down to incomplete paperwork by the Russians.

Komardin said India was also buying weapons and equipment from companies and countries that were also selling to Pakistan. The French, he said, had sold Agusta submarines to Pakistan and were selling Scorpene submarines to India. Lockheed Martin had sold Hercules aircraft to both Pakistan and India. Boeing, too, was selling to both Pakistan and India.

“But we do not do it, India does not want us to do it and we are a friend as a friend can be. We do not turn our backs to India.”

Komardin put out figures that are not officially borne out. He alleged India had bought 10 C-17 Globemaster aircraft for $10 billion though the long-haul strategic airlifters did not configure into the Indian military mindset.

“These aircraft are used for trans-Atlantic and transpacific requirements by the US military. What are they? Just big cargo planes. And you overlook the Il-76 that you (India) have been using for 20 years!” he said.

The C-17 contracted by India in 2009 through the Pentagon’s foreign military sales programme cost half the figure of $10 billion that Komardin quoted. The aircraft are bigger than the IL-76 procured from Russia. A C-17 can carry 75 tonnes and an IL-76, loads of 50 tonnes each.

Even as Komardin was railing against the shift in Indian military procurement policies, Boeing was taking another team of Indian journalists in a C-17 on a sortie over Bangalore’s skies to give them a feel of the aircraft.

The C-130J Hercules that the Indian Air Force has procured, he said, cannot accommodate the Russian-supplied Smerch multi-barelled rocket launchers. This would tell on the Indian armed forces’ operational abilities.

Komardin said Russia also thinks the choice of the Boeing-made Chinook helicopter for the IAF’s heavy-lift needs was wrong.

“What is the Chinook compared to (the Russian) Mi-26 (that was also in the competition)? It is a baby. The Mi-26 can lift the Chinook by the neck!” he said.

This is true. About three years ago, a Chinook helicopter of the US forces that went down in Afghanistan was salvaged by a chartered MI-26. Photographs of the MI-26 with the Chinook underslung have since been widely publicised.

The IAF has selected the Chinook for negotiations but the twin-rotor helicopter has not yet been contracted.

Komardin said Russia has $7-billion worth of arms transfer projects with India going currently, compared to the contracts that were signed with other countries. “I am pained that despite this, I find the Russian role in building India’s defence industry diminished,” he said.

Next year, it would be the 50th anniversary since India first signed a licensed production agreement with (the former) Soviet Russia for the MiG 21 FL fighter aircraft. Russia now has more than two dozen licence production agreements going with India. Among the projects are land systems involving tanks and armoured personnel carriers for the army, aircraft such as the Sukhoi 30 MKi for the air force and the Gorshkov carrier for the navy.

Asked about erratic supplies of spares for Russian-origin equipment and delays in deliveries, Komardin fumed that was also the case with other suppliers. He said the French had delayed the delivery of Scorpene submarines to the Indian Navy by three years, as the delivery of the Goshkov carrier has been delayed. “But there is talk in India of imposing penalties on us and not on the French,” he rued.

He said the equipment that India was procuring from Russia’s competitors would not stand the test in harsh conditions in the subcontinent.

“Russian armament is robust for warfighting, not effete. If we will sell you a chair, we will sell you a chair that lasts, not decorate it with foam and leather that will not last,” he said.

Komardin said that unlike its competitors, Russia did not want to publicise its defence deals with India “because we do not believe in disclosing Indian national secrets”.

Russia rants at India’s military buys

Russia come to us we love Russia

 

[MilSpec]

well, I will call it 'friendship' if Indians were as candid about the relationship, I have yet to see any Indian going to russia and talk sh*t about their delay in delivering an aircraft carrier.

We all have 'unreliable' friends, and sometimes, I am willing to pay to get things done rather than take free help from such friends.

Your government and naval planners bought a mothballed ship, Don't blame russia if you didn't have the foresight to see whats coming your way. And as far as russia's timeline goes, i see the fault in Indian assessment, which i quite evident from the string of exceptional timelines demonstrated by homegrown projects.

well, I will call it 'friendship' if Indians were as candid about the relationship, I have yet to see any Indian going to russia and talk sh*t about their delay in delivering an aircraft carrier.

We all have 'unreliable' friends, and sometimes, I am willing to pay to get things done rather than take free help from such friends.



Pakistan is a smaller market, russians are not doing a favour. Nor are we doing a favour to them.
Its the tacit agreement and we are giving enough money to keep them away from pakistan.

Good luck in trying that with the other party!!

 

[livingdead]

Your government and naval planners bought a mothballed ship, Don't blame russia if you didn't have the foresight to see whats coming your way. And as far as russia's timeline goes, i see the fault in Indian assessment, which i quite evident from the string of exceptional timelines demonstrated by homegrown projects.

Most homegrown projects that are delayed, because we lack the technology or capacity to do so. Russians are selling us gadgets which they already manufacture and know about, there is no R&D to be done, so its an issue with manufacturing practice.
Russians agreed on those timelines, and money. I am not sure Indian side changed their specs in the middle many times, in that case we can take some of the blames.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

well, I will call it 'friendship' if Indians were as candid about the relationship, I have yet to see any Indian going to russia and talk sh*t about their delay in delivering an aircraft carrier.

We all have 'unreliable' friends, and sometimes, I am willing to pay to get things done rather than take free help from such friends.

There was nothing free about it, LoL. BTW, did anybody else at that time offer India a Carrier, or a Nuclear Sub or assist to validate a Nuke Propulsion Reactor for a Sub, or seeker technology for missiles, or Cryogenic Engines, or involvement in a Global Positioning System ? Nobody else on Planet Earth did so! Not for Love, not for money!!

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Russia come to us we love Russia


Russia come to us we love Russia

Oye; Begana Shaadi mein Abdullah Deewana!!
Abhi bhi Talaaq ko waqt hai, Miya......

 

[Koovie]

Russia come to us we love Russia



Russia come to us we love Russia



Russia come to us we love Russia

You are making a fool out of yourself.....

 

[IND151]

All that above being said, there are some things that India will never deal with the West for!!!
Strategic weaponry for instance....

That's true.

Examples are Brahmos(its not strategic, but advanced weapon), Chakra II, Access to GLONASS Signals(the deal is under consideration), help on Arihant etc.

In this market Russia has almost no competition.