Russia invites Pakistan to invest in Sukhoi Jetliner program.

[帅的一匹]

@war&peace Get a filter on those brain to mouth stuff before you calling China tech infancy, I've done with you quite a lot.

It's not my problem you put your eggs in 10 basket, but it's my problem when you insult my country is good for nothing. What's wrong with you? I mean Russia is still the biggest arms suppliers to your enemy India! The T90 tanks, the Akula SSN, the Su30MKI, even S400 SAM and Brahmod middles . Who the mother fucker is your ally? China or Russia! I openly challenge you idiot.

 

[Zarvan]

The articles starts off with Sukhoi Jetliner, then calls it Sukhoi super jet only to make it sukhoi super fighter and calling it a fofth generation fighter plane. No need to comment on its credibility further. This should be taken with a pinch of salt!

They are basically refer to a new Stealth Fighter Russia is working on and it's not PAK-FA

The articles starts off with Sukhoi Jetliner, then calls it Sukhoi super jet only to make it sukhoi super fighter and calling it a fofth generation fighter plane. No need to comment on its credibility further. This should be taken with a pinch of salt!

They are basically refer to a new Stealth Fighter Russia is working on and it's not PAK-FA

 

[Nilgiri]

That's not true at all. China needs at least 2 - 3 decades to reach where Russia is today and the reason is that reverse engineering can only take you so far. To develope something revolutionary, a country needs to invest in fundamental research in addition to applied research and China is still in a state of infancy vis-a-vis developed countries so still a long way for China to reach there. Russia, like USA and other developed nations of west, is a primary source of technology/R&D so why should we rely on secondary or tertiary sources only.
While we invest in all three programs to get techs from all. Being a businessman, it is never a good idea to put all the egg in one basket even if it made of gold.

I would agree when it comes to the highest end materials. China is still busy in the RnD of creating high creep resistant turbine section of an engine. A few Chinese members that know something about the technology have told me its simple SCB that China has mastered, but dont realise there is lot more to it than that....and I mean a lot more. Case in point, chinese aircraft engine maturity.

But most other aircraft technology, I would put the Chinese roughly on par with Russia.

 

[war&peace]

Prove it to me. Don't forget your old sincere friend when you make new friend. Russia is looking for a new substitute for India to be milk-cow, cause India already bled white. I hope you don't fit in that role. Making friends and buying weapon from Russia is quite ok, just don't need to drag China in.

It is more about increasing the number of friends...The more friends one has the better it is.. I hope our "friends" understand that and be part of our happiness. Furthermore, China and Russia are already getting friendly with each other.

 

[帅的一匹]

I would agree when it comes to the highest end materials. China is still busy in the RnD of creating high creep resistant turbine section of an engine. A few Chinese members that know something about the technology have told me its simple SCB that China has mastered, but dont realise there is lot more to it than that....and I mean a lot more. Case in point, chinese aircraft engine maturity.

But most other aircraft technology, I would put the Chinese roughly on par with Russia.

Modi and Putin is having meeting these days, maybe new arms deal will be concluded. Russian won't sacrifice a penny for Pakistan, cause India and Russia is ally in the essence.

 

[war&peace]

I would agree when it comes to the highest end materials. China is still busy in the RnD of creating high creep resistant turbine section of an engine. A few Chinese members that know something about the technology have told me its simple SCB that China has mastered, but dont realise there is lot more to it than that....and I mean a lot more. Case in point, chinese aircraft engine maturity.

But most other aircraft technology, I would put the Chinese roughly on par with Russia.

Aircraft engine technology is one of the biggest differentiating factor that separates the men from the school boys. Even Russia lags behind the west in this key area and China lags behind even Russia. That is why I think TFX project will wage better other two options in terms of engine performance as Rolls Royce will be providing it with the state of the art engine specifically designed for this particular A/C with full control of Turkey. Aslo thrust vectoring is move advanced on F22 and F35 than of the Russian A/C though the latter outperform the competition in excellent aerodynamics that Russians have mastered with Sukhoi's mastery of the mathematics of the aerodynamics. China is can fare better in electornics that Russia or at least on par but its achilles heels is the engine technology but it is getting there and WS15 is a promising upgrade.

 

[帅的一匹]

Denigrate old friend to favor a new friend is definitely not a good skill to make friend.

 

[Nilgiri]

Modi and Putin is having meeting these days, maybe new arms deal will be concluded. Russian won't sacrifice a penny for Pakistan, cause India and Russia is ally in the essence.

I would agree with you there. High value items probably off the list for Pakistan from Russia. But they probably will expand civilian engagement with Pakistan where possible....and certain defence articles too.

The OP article is confusing. Headline says sukhoi jetliner (civilian superjet series)...but the body adds the word "fighter" to it.

I am pretty sure its the former, because AFAIK Russians are looking for more capital for it, and of course Pakistan money is as green as anyone else (though I would imagine Pakistan will invest it in other things first):

 

[帅的一匹]

Aircraft engine technology is one of the biggest differentiating factor that separates the men from the school boys. Even Russia lags behind the west in this key area and China lags behind even Russia. That is why I think TFX project will wage better other two options in terms of engine performance as Rolls Royce will be providing it with the state of the art engine specifically designed for this particular A/C with full control of Turkey. Aslo thrust vectoring is move advanced on F22 and F35 than of the Russian A/C though the latter outperform the competition in excellent aerodynamics that Russians have mastered with Sukhoi's mastery of the mathematics of the aerodynamics. China is can fare better in electornics that Russia or at least on par but its achilles heels is the engine technology but it is getting there and WS15 is a promising upgrade.

You can get whatever you want, if one day you become the chief of PAF. if PAF doesn't go for FC31, I ban myself from this forum. You have my words. Being realistic. Russia had been With India in the last 59 years, so as China with Pakistan. Being a friend means join hands to go through thick and thin, not kill and tell.

Now China and Russia is joining hands to develop new generation trunkliner, I hope Pakistan can join us.

I would agree with you there. High value items probably off the list for Pakistan from Russia. But they probably will expand civilian engagement with Pakistan where possible....and certain defence articles too.

The OP article is confusing. Headline says sukhoi jetliner (civilian superjet series)...but the body adds the word "fighter" to it.

I am pretty sure its the former, because AFAIK Russians are looking for more capital for it, and of course Pakistan money is as green as anyone else (though I would imagine Pakistan will invest it in other things first):

To be honest, still you willing to invest 7 billions in FGFA asked by Russians?

 

[Nilgiri]

Aircraft engine technology is one of the biggest differentiating factor that separates the men from the school boys. Even Russia lags behind the west in this key area and China lags behind even Russia. That is why I think TFX project will wage better other two options in terms of engine performance as Rolls Royce will be providing it with the state of the art engine specifically designed for this particular A/C with full control of Turkey. Aslo thrust vectoring is move advanced on F22 and F35 than of the Russian A/C though the latter outperform the competition in excellent aerodynamics that Russians have mastered with Sukhoi's mastery of the mathematics of the aerodynamics. China is can fare better in electornics that Russia or at least on par but its achilles heels is the engine technology but it is getting there and WS15 is a promising upgrade.

Yes I am also interested to see the realised performance of WS-15....specifically its MTBO which will be illustrative of where China currently stands. But the information chain may be shrouded on that for quite some time yet.

Your engine analysis is also correct country wise. Working in the industry right now myself, its crazy the amount of RnD capital we invest to get small marginal improvement in the West. I would rank the big 3 as follows: GE > PW > RR ...though PW is hoping its geared turbofan (for civilian market) will be a key game changer.

 

[帅的一匹]

I would agree with you there. High value items probably off the list for Pakistan from Russia. But they probably will expand civilian engagement with Pakistan where possible....and certain defence articles too.

The OP article is confusing. Headline says sukhoi jetliner (civilian superjet series)...but the body adds the word "fighter" to it.

I am pretty sure its the former, because AFAIK Russians are looking for more capital for it, and of course Pakistan money is as green as anyone else (though I would imagine Pakistan will invest it in other things first):

Why Russian didn't invite India investing in it?

 

[war&peace]

You can get whatever you want, if one day you become the chief of PAF. if PAF doesn't go for FC31, I ban myself from this forum. You have my words. Being realistic. Russia had been With India in the last 59 years, so as China with Pakistan. Being a friend means join hands to go through thick and thin, not kill and tell.

Now China and Russia is joining hands to develop new generation trunkliner, I hope Pakistan can join us.


To be honest, still you willing to invest 7 billions in FGFA asked by Russians?

Well, I think you have misunderstood what I said. If you read my messages, I advocate about participating in all the three programs and then coming up with a solution that is fully geared to address Pakistan's needs. So J31 => yes, TFX => yes and any other option from Russia => yes..

 

[Nilgiri]

To be honest, still you willing to invest 7 billions in FGFA asked by Russians?

Not under the current work/technology split (from a few reliable sources). It is being re-evaluated and pressure put on Russia.

 

[帅的一匹]

Yes I am also interested to see the realised performance of WS-15....specifically its MTBO which will be illustrative of where China currently stands. But the information chain may be shrouded on that for quite some time yet.

Your engine analysis is also correct country wise. Working in the industry right now myself, its crazy the amount of RnD capital we invest to get small marginal improvement in the West. I would rank the big 3 as follows: GE > PW > RR ...though PW is hoping its geared turbofan (for civilian market) will be a key game changer.

J10 was inducted to PLAAF back in year 2004, and it was revealed to the public in the late of 2006. WS15 is having 18 tons of max thrust, just a matter of time to be revealed. Don't forget the old friend WS10, had been fit onto 400 plus J11B and J16 and J10b. Take some patience, that's all we need to have.

 

[Nilgiri]

Why Russian didn't invite India investing in it?

They have many times. India was not very interested in it (full scale assembly etc given the risk, commitment and leverage that requires given the established players). Overall for now we prefer to manufacture parts and grow the base level aviation production like we did with automobiles in early 90s....and grow a few small commercial aircraft production centres first....and move to mid size and large size later.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...e-parts-for-superjet/articleshow/51025202.cms

Sukhoi superjet can of course compete in Indian aviation market when they clear the certifications.

https://in.rbth.com/economics/coope...rjet-100-contract-production-of-il-114_623667