Russia expected to place order for MiG-35

[black_jack]

Right smartypants, did you even read the MMRCA project outline?...It will be China centeric....where it will face stealth air crafts

No sir it's not china centeric , it is aimed at china-pakistan combined threat.

 

[MilSpec]

Point 1 : For deep intrusion the aircraft needs to have better airsuperiority role like Eurofighter , Su35 , Su30Mki .

You do realize that India's premier Deep penitration strike aircraft was Jaguar, before MKI?

Point 2 : Mig35 can carry short range rockets that can destroy tactical targets and small military establishments .
Point 3 : It can carry cruise missiles .
Point 4 : It can carry LGB and heavy bombs .

Masquerading - as a multirole, it's true intention was to be the most agile dogfighter that could pluck F-teens out of the sky. Addition of TVC makes it even better at that. and yes it has adopted multirole attributes, but still doesn't change it's design. A race horse can pull carts too, that doesn't mean you make it do so.

One of the reason why we dint go for Mig35 is Russia didnt buy it , we rejected as we might have problem in maintenance and spares .

There were many more reason than that, it did not fit the requirement of IAF in almost 38 parameters, apart from that, two a/c that came for tests were configured differently. But still IAF was highly impressed, the Hump on UPG is one concept derived from the proposed Mig35MKI, so is the Mil STD bus with open arch. It is unfortunate that Mikoyan did not do enough homework for the MMRCA and sent an aircraft that couldn't impress the IAF. My guess is Mikoyan/RAC underestimated the MMRCA test protocols.

 

[janon]

You do realize that India's premier Deep penitration strike aircraft was Jaguar, before MKI?


Masquerading - as a multirole, it's true intention was to be the most agile dogfighter that could pluck F-teens out of the sky. Addition of TVC makes it even better at that. and yes it has adopted multirole attributes, but still doesn't change it's design. A race horse can pull carts too, that doesn't mean you make it do so.

What does mig-35 lack in A2G role? Why can't an air superiority fighter become a multiroler, if loads of A2G munitions are integrated with it? A jaguar cannot start dogfighting or take on any A2A roles, but what can a jag do that a Mig-35 cannot? What does a "strike" fighter need, other than having a lot of A2G munitions integrated?

In short, why can't a mig-35 (or other air superiority fighters) do strike roles?

 

[INDIAISM]

we can always consider about 100 Mig 35s incase the Rafale deal becomes too expensive !

If rafale deal becomes too expensive then it will be alot better for us to either go for Eurofighter or to increase the order of Tejas Mk2 as short term solution and wait for FGFA,AMCA and Aura...

 

[MilSpec]

What does mig-35 lack in A2G role? Why can't an air superiority fighter become a multiroler, if loads of A2G munitions are integrated with it? A jaguar cannot start dogfighting or take on any A2A roles, but what can a jag do that a Mig-35 cannot? What does a "strike" fighter need, other than having a lot of A2G munitions integrated?

In short, why can't a mig-35 (or other air superiority fighters) do strike roles?

Just because they can doesn't mean they should, as simple as that. As I said thorough bred race horses can pull carts, but that doesn't mean they should. If your air frame is optimized for nullifying aerial threats, then you might as well use it as an air sup a/c as it's primary role, for secondary role it can indeed be used as a bomb truck, for tertiary roles as recon, delivering courrier , whatever you want. Mig 35 can do it all.

My contention is, it is an exceptionally nimble, agile dogfighter, and should be used to provide air cover to strike formations. That is where it would excel, it doesn't mean it would suck at ground attack.

 

[janon]

Just because they can doesn't mean they should, as simple as that. As I said thorough bred race horses can pull carts, but that doesn't mean they should. If your air frame is optimized for nullifying aerial threats, then you might as well use it as an air sup a/c as it's primary role, for secondary role it can indeed be used as a bomb truck, for tertiary roles as recon, delivering courrier , whatever you want. Mig 35 can do it all.

My contention is, it is an exceptionally nimble, agile dogfighter, and should be used to provide air cover to strike formations. That is where it would excel, it doesn't mean it would suck at ground attack.

You said that it is an air superiority fighter "masquerading as a multirole", which gives the impression that it lacks some A2G abilities. So my question is, does it?

 

[Roybot]

@WINDSPAMMER nice username.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Man .. if nothing IAF should pick up 10 od the Mig 35 OVT's for it's flying display team... Stuff these OVTS can do is almost un believable.

For the IAF's Surya Kiran display team the IAF are ordering 21 BAE HAWK Mk.132.


I agree though that having the team fly supersonic TVC equipped fighters would be something else!

 

[MilSpec]

You said that it is an air superiority fighter "masquerading as a multirole", which gives the impression that it lacks some A2G abilities. So my question is, does it?

Nope , what it means is underneath the targetting pod and look down radar, A2G and PGM, It is still the same aircraft which will dive into a dog fight without thinking twice when any opportunity presents itself. I believe russians design philosophy post 3rd gen has leaned heavily towards creating exceptionally agile fighters (Su 27/Mig29/1.44 TD/berkut TD/T50) optimised for areal combat same. Europeans on the other hand have a more swiss knife approach to their platforms, Super etenard, Tornado, M2k, EFT, Rafale, etc. and american lead the way with the right tool for the right job method, where they clearly define thier threat perception and design thier platforms accordingly.

Mig 35 would have been a capable multirole a/c, but underneath always would remain optimised as a primary air sup fighter.

 

[Sergi]

I don't think so. Russians dropped Su-33 and get Mig-29K cuz they didn't want additional costs. So why would they buy Mig-35 now when they already have Su-35 and Su-34 and in 3/4 years they are going to induct PAK-FA. What's the need of Mig-35 ???

 

[MilSpec]

I don't think so. Russians dropped Su-33 and get Mig-29K cuz they didn't want additional costs. So why would they buy Mig-35 now when they already have Su-35 and Su-34 and in 3/4 years they are going to induct PAK-FA. What's the need of Mig-35 ???

Smaller fighter, lesser costs, larger fleet, cheaper engine, less fuel, sensible brains at RuAF... all of these reasone

 

[tvsram1992]

You do realize that India's premier Deep penitration strike aircraft was Jaguar, before MKI?

Jaguar need to have Mig21s and other aircrafts as escort . Hope you are aware of that . Mig35 doesnt need such thing .

Masquerading - as a multirole, it's true intention was to be the most agile dogfighter that could pluck F-teens out of the sky. Addition of TVC makes it even better at that. and yes it has adopted multirole attributes, but still doesn't change it's design. A race horse can pull carts too, that doesn't mean you make it do so.

You cannot say its claimed to be multirole . Its multirole beacsue it can be used for different missions . As i gave the list of weapons it can carry , making it a multirole fighter . Design matters when it comes for air superiority not for strike roles . Its weapon configuration that matters .

There were many more reason than that, it did not fit the requirement of IAF in almost 38 parameters, apart from that, two a/c that came for tests were configured differently. But still IAF was highly impressed, the Hump on UPG is one concept derived from the proposed Mig35MKI, so is the Mil STD bus with open arch. It is unfortunate that Mikoyan did not do enough homework for the MMRCA and sent an aircraft that couldn't impress the IAF. My guess is Mikoyan/RAC underestimated the MMRCA test protocols.

I said it is one of the reason . Perhaps India was looking for a european fighter . We can have Mig35 as a back up option that can be used during delays of LCA and upgrading of current aircrafts and cancellation of MRCA . I agree that Mikoyan/UAC were over confident of winning the deal .

 

[SQ8]

I don't think so. Russians dropped Su-33 and get Mig-29K cuz they didn't want additional costs. So why would they buy Mig-35 now when they already have Su-35 and Su-34 and in 3/4 years they are going to induct PAK-FA. What's the need of Mig-35 ???

A four tiered fleet.. cost savings.. The Bear is getting smarter.

The Mig-35 will have lots of commonality with its Mig-29 fleet.. in essence the red,white and blue will have a pretty common logistics base. The same goes for the Flanker variants.. common training regimen.. more cost savings.
Then comes the PAK-FA. which is the top end.

It's actually pretty smart.
What they do need though is AEW support since their A-50's aren't all that they used to be.
There was a proposal for a An-74 based version of a smaller AEW system or one based on the Tu-214.

 

[MilSpec]

Jaguar need to have Mig21s and other aircrafts as escort . Hope you are aware of that . Mig35 doesnt need such thing .

Dear friend, I assure you even if you were flying the 8th generation fighter in strike role it will still need air cover from an air superiority sircraft. If any multirole aircraft has swing into air sup role with strike munition still laden on it, it will instanlty jettision it munition and get into air mode with whatever limited a2a stuff it has for it's protection, thus your strike mission fails even before th aerial engagement begin. It doesn't matter which tees markha multirole fighter is leading strike it will always have Aur sup cover for it. Even M2K's flew with M29 cover.

You cannot say its claimed to be multirole . Its multirole beacsue it can be used for different missions . As i gave the list of weapons it can carry , making it a multirole fighter . Design matters when it comes for air superiority not for strike roles . Its weapon configuration that matters .

And where did say it is "claimed" to be a multirole?? I just said it's was designed to be an air sup a/c, it has been a sucessful air sup fighter, and it will continue to excel as an air sup fighter, with additional multirole capabilities.

I said it is one of the reason . Perhaps India was looking for a european fighter . We can have Mig35 as a back up option that can be used during delays of LCA and upgrading of current aircrafts and cancellation of MRCA . I agree that Mikoyan/UAC were over confident of winning the deal .

India wasn't looking at fighters based on nationality, it was looking at fighter based on capability, rafale came the closest to the needed capabilities, it is as simple as that.

 

[janon]

A four tiered fleet.. cost savings.. The Bear is getting smarter.

The Mig-35 will have lots of commonality with its Mig-29 fleet.. in essence the red,white and blue will have a pretty common logistics base. The same goes for the Flanker variants.. common training regimen.. more cost savings.
Then comes the PAK-FA. which is the top end.

It's actually pretty smart.
What they do need though is AEW support since their A-50's aren't all that they used to be.
There was a proposal for a An-74 based version of a smaller AEW system or one based on the Tu-214.

Yes, the RuAF can have a fantastic fleet if they play it right. Just like the IAF, they have several kinds of ageing fighters in service in large numbers, all of which need to be replaced. They can streamline their fleet with the products they have made, namely the mig-35 and the Su-35. IMO, the mig-35s can replace the hundreds of mig 29s in service (all of which were deemed too old to be upgraded cost effectively), and the Su-35s can replace all the old flankers in all their variants. Once the PAKFAs start rolling in, slowly phase out the mig-31s, since that niche role may not be needed anymore. And replace all their Su-24 and Su-25s with the Su-34 (which they are already doing). That will give them a fleet of 4 types of aircrafts, with two of them having a lot of commonality (Su-34 and Su-35). They can have a very potent fleet of extremely capable 4++ gen multirolers, plus cutting edge 5th gen PAKFA. It would no longer be the case that they have to operate large numbers of inferior aircrafts, since the said four are really cutting edge, except for the US.

And then they have the bombers.


(BTW, please move this thread to the Russia section. It has nothing to do with India.)