Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets

[marcos98]

Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets​

Russia has blocked the sale of 100 RD-93 engines to China for FC-1, the joint Sino-Pak fighter, which could emerge as a rival for its MiG-29 fighter in the global markets, according to a report today.

"The new contract with China for the sale of 100 RD-93 engines has not been signed," Kommersant reported quoting its sources in the military-industrial complex.

The deal for the supply of second batch of 100 RD-93 manufactured by Moscow-based Chernyshev Machine building Plant for FC-1 (Pakistani version JF-17) was to be signed with China back in May, however, CEO of RAC MiG and Sukhoi Aircraft Holding Mikhail Pogosyan has torpedoed it, Kommersant business daily reported.

"One of the sources confirmed that Pogosyan has virtually blocked the deal with China by writing to the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) and Rosoboronexport (ROE) state arms exporter that FC-1 is a direct rival of Russian MiG-29 fighters in several foreign markets," the daily writes noting that Russian and Chinese fighters are in the race for an Egyptian contract.

"I am not against the re-export of individual technologies, but it should be done in agreement with the producers of finished-product, so that this re-export does not damage their interests," Pogosyan told Kommersant.

"Re-export is allowed by the government decision and we don't have a practice of consulting producers of finished products.

Under the inter-governmental bilateral agreement in November 2007 China was allowed to re-export RD-93 as part of FC-1 fighter to Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and Algeria," press service of state arms exporting monopoly ROE was quoted as saying by the daily.

The Kommersant reminds that Chernyshev Plant a part of United Engine Corporation has supplied 100 RD-93 engines to China under the USD 238 million deal signed in 2005.

A framework agreement for the sale of 500 such engines for the Sino-Pak joint fighter was also signed at that time and Beijing was ready to buy up to 1,000 engines in over USD 3 billion, if Russia agreed to offer its modernised version with greater thrust.

Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets- Hindustan Times

hmmm did anyone noticed that the engine wont be resaled to countries other than china and pakistan.
i think by contract russia is bound to provide the remaining engines to first customer which is china jf17( that transalates to pak).
so even if egypt, nigeria and others wont have jf17 without RD engines , pak may not possibly have this problem as the articles doesnt mention pak..........

 

[Bull]

Here plz read these:

Algeria Returning Flawed Air Force Mig 29s to Russia

Algeria returns 15 MiGs due to quality issues

AFP: Algeria plans to return 15 fighter jets to Russia: report

Russia to fly 34 MiG-29s that Algeria rejected - UPI.com

And i believe i won't have to go towards the RMAF decision to retire their MiG-29s as well as the history of the IAF in dealing with their MiG-29s.

And these Algerian MiGs were delivered after 2005-06, thus they were brand new ones.

Its not always about the bigger the better, in the long run maintenance costs, reliability of the aircraft, availability & reliability of the spare parts etc etc also does matter.

To you guys PAF & JF-17 might be a joke, but not to the EAF or the rest of the world. Egyptians know what they are doing and buying.

If Russia really believed their MiG-29 is superior and can beat JF-17, they would have given a fair chance to MiG-29 to prove it, as when it comes to defence, money doesn't matter, especially to Egyptians as they are no ordinary African country, they have a real foe to watch out and if JF-17 has been crap as portrayed by Indians, then EAF would have gone for something else. But as they operate best of what the west offers, they know well what is their requirement and what can fulfill it.

Russians employing such cheap tactics means they are afraid from JF-17 not just due to price, rather due to its capabilities also.

As long as the JF-17s have the Russian engines they cant claim to come free of Russian niggles.

 

[TaimiKhan]

hmmm did anyone noticed that the engine wont be resaled to countries other than china and pakistan.
i think by contract russia is bound to provide the remaining engines to first customer which is china jf17( that transalates to pak).
so even if egypt, nigeria and others wont have jf17 without RD engines , pak may not possibly have this problem as the articles doesnt mention pak..........

That is what is being told by the Pakistani members, that this ban is for the export orders where Russian interests come into conflict.

Egypt has shown interest, thus they banned this engine to China for re-export so that MiG-29 has a fair chance.

It won't be affecting PAF production plans, until Russia agrees to ban PAF getting these engines also.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Yep, the chance was given and Vietnamese air force selected MiG 29 over the J 10 and FC-1. And th bulk of maintainance is borne by the engine maintainance and both the JF and MiG 29 uses the Klimov RD 33 series engine.

And if I am doing business and that too in a huge quantity I would make sure I dont let my competitors a chance to beat me. Pakistan will not have any problems with the engines not being given to China.

JF carries a Russian engine still, SD 10 still has a R 77 seeker, KLJ 10 is still not fitted to the JF 17 and it still hasnt entered series production yet. MiG 29 in the other hand is a matured platform with a radar that is proven. And a weapon system that has been in use for more than a decade.

In Flight envelope of the MiG 29 has been fully explored and is in use with a lot more countries. The MiG 29 can also fit the RD 33 MK series -3 engine which is far more advanced than the RD 93 used in the JF 17.

The major thing is even in close in fight the MiG 29 is a proven platform and the Russians are making sure they dont have any competition in this arena as it is going to be a huge order.

It was Burma and not Vietnam, plus i highly doubt this story reason being, China has not its own engine for these 2 aircrafts, so for now it can not sell these planes to anyone else, as engine would be a big problem. China would have known before hand that it is gonna face such a problem, thus why bringing in their jets, seems suspicious.

Plus, Burma was not on the initially agreed list of countries to which China can re-export the RD-93 engines, and definitely no arrangement when it comes to the AL-31 engine.

Newer SD-10s have now their own seekers, different then the Russian seekers. PAF would definitely not buy such missiles with Russian tech, as Indians would know the capabilities of such seekers, thus Pakistan helped China and they made, rather to great extend Pakistan provided the tech for the newer SD-10s seekers.

As per reports, only first 8 JF-17s had KLJ-7 radar, after that the newer models are coming in with the newer version of the radar.

And now again i would say, if MiG-29 was such a cool aircraft, Russia should have then allowed the competition to happen and may the best among both win. But since Russia has played the dirty card, it seems the Russians do not enjoy the same enthusiasm about Mig-29s as the Indians are showing on this thread.

 

[Frankenstein]

lol, the problem is that Russians have concerned about there Mig-29, then what the hell are Indians dancing about??

 

[TaimiKhan]

lol, the problem is that Russians have concerned about there Mig-29, then what the hell are Indians dancing about??

It can't be resisted, as Indians thought, it would be the JF-17 & PAF that is gonna suffer, thus the thought of this made them jumpy, but since they have realized that for now their "khushi" is short lived, they have come up to the defence of MiG-29 and its makers, who off course are their best buddies.

 

[Frankenstein]

Whats happening here just because Russia denied China engines that too for business purposes lot of my fellow people are jumping up with joy. Guys this is purely a business decision , where do India Pakistan come in to this. Accepted that this is a setback for JF-17 but they will go for other options. Look in each and every thread of LCA we were trying to explain to them how advanced it was for us and the roadblocks and etc we faced during it, i think some are trying to return the favour but please maintain dignity this amounts to pure gloating on someone else's problems.

So rite you are, Everything have a setback

good post brother

 

[rafay321]

Indians here have compelled me to register and post this.

It is quiet funny to see you Indians celebrating threads like these. This only shows two things.

1- The hatred you people have.
2- How much you fear Pak weapons.
3- how much the world fears jf-17

Some Indian here mentioned why would he want to see weapons in the hands of known a enemy instead of just sticks and stones?

Dude I don't HATE you or PAKISTAN... Y on earth would I want a known enemy (with whom we came close to going to war just a decade ago) be armed with anything other than sticks and stones? Don't act like an angel, even you guys are the same. Examples could include the fact that despite having the second largest muslim population IN THE WORLD, India is still not a member of the OIC (Pak influence)....so what's the big deal? Did we say back stabbing and boo ha ha etc.?

The answer is that courageous and brave nations like to face and equal or superior enemy so that at the end of day no one finger points at single sided battle. It seems like Indians want to follow US and Israel who bomb innocent people armed with sticks and stones.

Pakistan is a brave and courageous nation. So that when you get 250 sukhoi or 128 MMRC or Phalcons or whatever goodies. We get ready with our goods, whatever we have and tell you guys BRING IT ON!! Why can't you Indians be like that? You have the right to protest but the fact is that you Indians CRY and cry HARD!

Looks like Indians want to have a free run in Pakistan just like Palestine, Afghanistan or Iraq? Well Pakistan is a military might and will continue to remain till it exists.

So have some courage and self respect. Learn from us. How we faced you in 2002 and it was you the 3 times superior sized army that went back. We Pakistanis are DEFENDING ourselves from you with whatever we have.

You guys already have superiority in almost every military tool then why being so scared of few f-16s? Jf17 or submarines. I just can't understand.

Last but not the least I’ll reveal a secret to our Indian friends. The Pakistan military apparatus is well aware of the fact that even a water gun scares the hell out of the Indians. That’s why our jf-17, f16’s and j10s are more than enough to keep Indians at bay. It is your childish attitude towards Pak’s military acquisitions that have won you this image in Pakistan armed forces specially after 2002 build up. This is why your 750 latest jets don’t scare us because we know our 350 scares you more! So kindly quit this attitude.

Kmazor dushman ki khawhish rakhne wale darpok hotay hain bahadur nahi.

PS. there is a whole 39 page threwad on bharat bhakshak where indians are welcomed to pee after every pak acquisition. Cmon grow up already.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Indians here have compelled me to register and post this.

It is quiet funny to see you Indians celebrating threads like these. This only shows two things.

1- The hatred you people have.
2- How much you fear Pak weapons.
3- how much the world fears jf-17

Some Indian here mentioned why would he want to see weapons in the hands of known a enemy instead of just sticks and stones?




The answer is that courageous and brave nations like to face and equal or superior enemy so that at the end of day no one finger points at single sided battle. It seems like Indians want to follow US and Israel who bomb innocent people armed with sticks and stones.

Pakistan is a brave and courageous nation. So that when you get 250 sukhoi or 128 MMRC or Phalcons or whatever goodies. We get ready with our goods, whatever we have and tell you guys BRING IT ON!! Why can't you Indians be like that? You have the right to protest but the fact is that you Indians CRY and cry HARD!

Looks like Indians want to have a free run in Pakistan just like Palestine, Afghanistan or Iraq? Well Pakistan is a military might and will continue to remain till it exists.

So have some courage and self respect. Learn from us. How we faced you in 2002 and it was you the 3 times superior sized army that went back. We Pakistanis are DEFENDING ourselves from you with whatever we have.

You guys already have superiority in almost every military tool then why being so scared of few f-16s? Jf17 or submarines. I just can't understand.

Last but not the least I’ll reveal a secret to our Indian friends. The Pakistan military apparatus is well aware of the fact that even a water gun scares the hell out of the Indians. That’s why our jf-17, f16’s and j10s are more than enough to keep Indians at bay. It is your childish attitude towards Pak’s military acquisitions that have won you this image in Pakistan armed forces specially after 2002 build up. This is why your 750 latest jets don’t scare us because we know our 350 scares you more! So kindly quit this attitude.

Kmazor dushman ki khawhish rakhne wale darpok hotay hain bahadur nahi.

PS. there is a whole 39 page threwad on bharat bhakshak where indians are welcomed to pee after every pak acquisition. Cmon grow up already.

This means you know jack about International diplomacy. Simple rule in mordern warfare.

"Enemy must be dead before he even guesses what hit him."

We will cry and we make sure that you dont get any weapons. Even if u get a baseball bat we will cry. Eventhough America has such a powerful armed forces they cry wen Iran gets a missile. That is how the world is.

 

[HQ19HQ26]

sounds interesting it means that all 300 million $ may flow into GAIC and help them speed up progress of WS-13

 

[realindian]

Here plz read these:

Algeria Returning Flawed Air Force Mig 29s to Russia

Algeria returns 15 MiGs due to quality issues

AFP: Algeria plans to return 15 fighter jets to Russia: report

Russia to fly 34 MiG-29s that Algeria rejected - UPI.com

And i believe i won't have to go towards the RMAF decision to retire their MiG-29s as well as the history of the IAF in dealing with their MiG-29s.

And these Algerian MiGs were delivered after 2005-06, thus they were brand new ones.

Its not always about the bigger the better, in the long run maintenance costs, reliability of the aircraft, availability & reliability of the spare parts etc etc also does matter.

To you guys PAF & JF-17 might be a joke, but not to the EAF or the rest of the world. Egyptians know what they are doing and buying.

If Russia really believed their MiG-29 is superior and can beat JF-17, they would have given a fair chance to MiG-29 to prove it, as when it comes to defence, money doesn't matter, especially to Egyptians as they are no ordinary African country, they have a real foe to watch out and if JF-17 has been crap as portrayed by Indians, then EAF would have gone for something else. But as they operate best of what the west offers, they know well what is their requirement and what can fulfill it.

Russians employing such cheap tactics means they are afraid from JF-17 not just due to price, rather due to its capabilities also.

what the algeria is doing i don't know....but india and china is much better country than algeria and both country is using russian aircraft without any problem. india is the only country who can buy any aircraft from the world even F-35 from usa. but india prefer to buy russian aircraft and INdian airforce has no problem with that....

i am realizing that whenever some member have no answer of my question they start attack personally on me...i am asking some question that related to mig-29 and jf-17..and please stop personally attack on me.....

1: why jf-17 cost is only $17 mn and Mig-29 cost is $32 mn. even russian r famous in world for cheap aircraft...

2: just compare both aircraft on Wikipedia or any other reliable website. u will find mig-29 is much better than jf-17 in the term of radar,speed,engine and combat capability. jf-17 is only superior in range .

3: if jf-17 is a good aircraft than why china is not using it.even jf-17 is very cheap in comparison of J-10 and j-11...

 

[karan.1970]

sounds interesting it means that all 300 million $ may flow into GAIC and help them speed up progress of WS-13

Just one question. Why did it have to take a Russian pullback for all the goodies to be diverted to WS-13. Is the Chinese leadership so myopic or cash strapped that despite having a better engine on the anvil they were not putting all the possible effort and money into that project and it had to wait for russian pullback to divert this 300 mill?? I personally dont believe it..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As long as the JF-17s have the Russian engines they cant claim to come free of Russian niggles.

That would depend on whether Pakistan/China accepted Russian engines with old parts or other issues and installed them in their planes or those sold to other nations.

 

[Guynextdoor]

It can't be resisted, as Indians thought, it would be the JF-17 & PAF that is gonna suffer, thus the thought of this made them jumpy, but since they have realized that for now their "khushi" is short lived, they have come up to the defence of MiG-29 and its makers, who off course are their best buddies.

Dude you too? I thought you were mature enough to comment upon state craft unemotionally- to look at the events and their implications alone...sad that you should participate in emotional outbursts.

 

[mjnaushad]

what the algeria is doing i don't know....but india and china is much better country than algeria and both country is using russian aircraft without any problem. india is the only country who can buy any aircraft from the world even F-35 from usa. but india prefer to buy russian aircraft and INdian airforce has no problem with that....

i am realizing that whenever some member have no answer of my question they start attack personally on me...i am asking some question that related to mig-29 and jf-17..and please stop personally attack on me.....

1: why jf-17 cost is only $17 mn and Mig-29 cost is $32 mn. even russian r famous in world for cheap aircraft...

2: just compare both aircraft on Wikipedia or any other reliable website. u will find mig-29 is much better than jf-17 in the term of radar,speed,engine and combat capability. jf-17 is only superior in range .

3: if jf-17 is a good aircraft than why china is not using it.even jf-17 is very cheap in comparison of J-10 and j-11...

Ans :1 Go through JF 17 thread

Ans : 2 Go through JF 17 Thread

Ans: 3 Go through JF 17 Thread