Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets

[Mani2020]

People say dont piss off the red dragon and russia has done so....Every one knows that China is a biggest user of russian weapons and Russia erans a lot of $$$ form China,If China took a stance than i fear Russia will loose more $$$ in long run as compared to the $$$ loss if mig-29 is rejected by Egypt


About us we have a history of surviving against the odds so its nothing new ,so most of indian members laughing here should instead fear coz we have done miracles when all odds were against us.And these kinds of things gets the best out of the nations,Germany is one of the examples

Thirdly this news is i think only reported by indian media ,No russian,Pakistani or Chinese source? There are lots of other rumors regarding the cancellation of Mar-1 and other things in indian media now a days,I remember one news regarding fc-20 deal cancellation.

Plus there was also Halla lala after the news of french deal cancellation appeared but then ACM denied any such cancellation and said deal is on track.

So i think its premature to get over excited

i would not believe any such news untill and unless it comes out from the official sources

 

[Fact_ur_mine]

Uh...quality is determined during manufacturing. It's like the WS-10's, the design was fine, but the manufacturing had quality issues which was why the fleet of J-11B's were grounded until late last year.

Buddy you are BIT WRONG here,
the design had drawbacks like slow burner startup speed as compared with russian engine, and in hurry to LEAD they didnt cared enough and started its induction in J-11. ITS BETTER TO BE LATE THAN SORRY.


By the way original LOGIC by RescueRanger was ODD one.

 

[Bull]

The partnership between Russia and China was expected to run into rough weather sooner than later. How would Russia stand and see China uses its engine to build jets to undercut its own jets in the thrid world's defence market. Forget the Indian equation, the Russians wont be that glad to see China rising in strength.

 

[mjnaushad]

read the entire thread..jf-17 is competing mig-29 only bcoz of price factor. it is inferior to mig-29.


if u technically evaluate both these aircraft by radar,combat capability,life time cost etc. u find that jf-17 can't competite mig-29 rather than cost.

If tomorrow sudani pirate say His boat is better than USS Aircraft carrier will you believe it........

Just typing "its better in radar, avionics blah blah blah" doesn't make it 4 JF 17 =1 Mig 29.

 

[Areesh]

If tomorrow sudani pirate say His boat is better than USS Aircraft carrier will you believe it........

Just typing "its better in radar, avionics blah blah blah" doesn't make it 4 JF 17 =1 Mig 29.

Haha that was really hilarious.

 

[realindian]

If tomorrow sudani pirate say His boat is better than USS Aircraft carrier will you believe it........

Just typing "its better in radar, avionics blah blah blah" doesn't make it 4 JF 17 =1 Mig 29.

no but if the the same comment is given by United Kingdom than i will believe on it. i think u r comparing sudani expert with russian defence expert...........
jf-17 is still in undergoing avionics and radar development.if jf-17 is a good aircraft than why chinese airforce refuse to accept,actually china made cheap aircraft only for sale not for own use.

Mikoyan MiG-29 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
JF-17 Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[aimarraul]

please get some rest,trolls .....it's too early to cheer.didn't some pakistani friends here tell you that there were enough RD93 for the next three years?if someone missed TaimiKhan's post, i would like to repeat his words....ws13 can definitely fill the blank by the end of 2013 even if PAK can't find other western suppliers then. i can only find one reason counld prevent pakistan getting RD93 from russia in the near future: the mmrca contract(assuming russia will be winner....). pakistan was never the traditional constomer for russia due to the pressure from india's A$$,but russian loves money ,they tried so hard to persuade indian govt to export RD93 to PAK.Pak is very aware of its' situation , they couldn't possibly put all the eggs in russia's basket without considering their variable policy.as for the affection to china, well ,russian can't really surprise chinese with any decision.....every time we try to relight the russia-china relationship,they will find a way to extinguish it.as the traditional victim....china always know how important Indigenous weaponry is ,everything we imported from them are just the transitional plan to fill up the gap,and it always come up with a backup one. china may not able to export JF-17 to Egypt in the short run ,but what will russia get in return besides an uncertain contract?one more stain on their elaborated brand? if they are continuing to rest on soviet's laurels and so afraid of competition, they will lose their customers sooner or later ,china is just one of potential competitors

 

[Awesome]

Dear Sir,

Confucius never said this:

'Satam Vado, Ma Likho'.

Say what you want, a hundred times over; once you write it down, the damage is permanent.

Sincerely,

I'm not apologizing for what I said - I mean it when I say that India will never ditch any country as a means of acquiring weapons just because it also sells to Pakistan. But that it wasn't specific and could be interpreted as something demeaning. That wasn't intended.

 

[mjnaushad]

no but if the the same comment is given by United Kingdom than i will believe on it. i think u r comparing sudani expert with russian defence expert...........
jf-17 is still in undergoing avionics and radar development.if jf-17 is a good aircraft than why chinese airforce refuse to accept,actually china made cheap aircraft only for sale not for own use.

Mikoyan MiG-29 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
JF-17 Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about when a Russian expert is saying it because he want to market Russian product....

And as far Not Induction of JF 17 is concerned its the same comment i've heard many times before and gave a detailed answer. I don't have time to run around in circles. I hope some other member who still can tolerate this indian mindset will answer you because i cant anymore. Just few hours ago some newbies indians were saying...."you dont have a wind mill, Show us a wind mill, You cant even make one windmill". And when they got the answer they were not even coming close to the thread again because their chance for troll was over. Now i can type all that bull$hit again about not induction or future induction but really i dont care........No matter how many thousands time i post you guys wont change....I am just sick of this mindset.

 

[TaimiKhan]

some guys here can't differentiate b/w quantity and quality.

JF-17 = Quanity
Mig-29= Quality

1 Mig-29 = 4 Jf=17

1 Mig-29 cost is $35 mn = 4 jf-17 cost is $68 mn.

so which one deal is best.........no doubt pakistan will choose Jf-17 and India will choose Mig-29.

Here plz read these:

Algeria Returning Flawed Air Force Mig 29s to Russia

Algeria returns 15 MiGs due to quality issues

AFP: Algeria plans to return 15 fighter jets to Russia: report

Russia to fly 34 MiG-29s that Algeria rejected - UPI.com

And i believe i won't have to go towards the RMAF decision to retire their MiG-29s as well as the history of the IAF in dealing with their MiG-29s.

And these Algerian MiGs were delivered after 2005-06, thus they were brand new ones.

Its not always about the bigger the better, in the long run maintenance costs, reliability of the aircraft, availability & reliability of the spare parts etc etc also does matter.

To you guys PAF & JF-17 might be a joke, but not to the EAF or the rest of the world. Egyptians know what they are doing and buying.

If Russia really believed their MiG-29 is superior and can beat JF-17, they would have given a fair chance to MiG-29 to prove it, as when it comes to defence, money doesn't matter, especially to Egyptians as they are no ordinary African country, they have a real foe to watch out and if JF-17 has been crap as portrayed by Indians, then EAF would have gone for something else. But as they operate best of what the west offers, they know well what is their requirement and what can fulfill it.

Russians employing such cheap tactics means they are afraid from JF-17 not just due to price, rather due to its capabilities also.

 

[Imran Khan]

Here plz read these:

Algeria Returning Flawed Air Force Mig 29s to Russia

Algeria returns 15 MiGs due to quality issues

AFP: Algeria plans to return 15 fighter jets to Russia: report

Russia to fly 34 MiG-29s that Algeria rejected - UPI.com

And i believe i won't have to go towards the RMAF decision to retire their MiG-29s as well as the history of the IAF in dealing with their MiG-29s.

And these Algerian MiGs were delivered after 2005-06, thus they were brand new ones.

Its not always about the bigger the better, in the long run maintenance costs, reliability of the aircraft, availability & reliability of the spare parts etc etc also does matter.

To you guys PAF & JF-17 might be a joke, but not to the EAF or the rest of the world. Egyptians know what they are doing and buying.

If Russia really believed their MiG-29 is superior and can beat JF-17, they would have given a fair chance to MiG-29 to prove it, as when it comes to defence, money doesn't matter, especially to Egyptians as they are no ordinary African country, they have a real foe to watch out and if JF-17 has been crap as portrayed by Indians, then EAF would have gone for something else. But as they operate best of what the west, they know well what is their requirement and what can fulfill it.

Russians employing such cheap tactics means they are afraid from JF-17 not just due to price, rather due to its capabilities also.

dear sir

you wasting time with teens and trolls your posts are high then there think so they can't catch up there. its same like you send high frequency data link singls to a 60 model radio set

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

'Building-Yes', Designing...no...that started with 1990s (LCA etc.). Dunno what we did for marut. Point of discussion ws designing of JF 17. Can't do that without SS Wind Tunnel Facility. That's a different kind of baby anyways...one could go on to ask computers, packages, iron bird

It is a joint venture with China - that therefore implies that certain aspects of the design, most obviously any aspects of the design for which the facilities do not exist in Pakistan, would be carried out in China. However, the lack of facilities for conducting R&D on aircraft design does not preclude the participation of Pakistani engineers and Pakistani financing in the R&D process in China where those facilities were present.

So move on from this 'dead horse' already.

 

[TaimiKhan]

dear sir

you wasting time with teens and trolls your posts are high then there think so they can't catch up there. its same like you send high frequency data link singls to a 60 model radio set

Well if still signals did not reached them, and people kept trolling, then would have to suspend them, may be then they get the signals clear enough.

 

[razgriz19]

why do u guyz think that last month china did a taxi test of ws-13 on jf-17, its obvious that they saw this coming and im pretty sure ws-13 will be ready for future batches...
every perfect/mature engine was "new" at some point of their life so dont make a fuss about ws-13 being "new"...
i kno for an engine it takes time to mature but im pretty sure china already increased their pace in testing ws-13..

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Here plz read these:

Algeria Returning Flawed Air Force Mig 29s to Russia

Algeria returns 15 MiGs due to quality issues

AFP: Algeria plans to return 15 fighter jets to Russia: report

Russia to fly 34 MiG-29s that Algeria rejected - UPI.com

And i believe i won't have to go towards the RMAF decision to retire their MiG-29s as well as the history of the IAF in dealing with their MiG-29s.

And these Algerian MiGs were delivered after 2005-06, thus they were brand new ones.

Its not always about the bigger the better, in the long run maintenance costs, reliability of the aircraft, availability & reliability of the spare parts etc etc also does matter.

To you guys PAF & JF-17 might be a joke, but not to the EAF or the rest of the world. Egyptians know what they are doing and buying.

If Russia really believed their MiG-29 is superior and can beat JF-17, they would have given a fair chance to MiG-29 to prove it, as when it comes to defence, money doesn't matter, especially to Egyptians as they are no ordinary African country, they have a real foe to watch out and if JF-17 has been crap as portrayed by Indians, then EAF would have gone for something else. But as they operate best of what the west offers, they know well what is their requirement and what can fulfill it.

Russians employing such cheap tactics means they are afraid from JF-17 not just due to price, rather due to its capabilities also.

Yep, the chance was given and Vietnamese air force selected MiG 29 over the J 10 and FC-1. And th bulk of maintainance is borne by the engine maintainance and both the JF and MiG 29 uses the Klimov RD 33 series engine.

And if I am doing business and that too in a huge quantity I would make sure I dont let my competitors a chance to beat me. Pakistan will not have any problems with the engines not being given to China.

JF carries a Russian engine still, SD 10 still has a R 77 seeker, KLJ 10 is still not fitted to the JF 17 and it still hasnt entered series production yet. MiG 29 in the other hand is a matured platform with a radar that is proven. And a weapon system that has been in use for more than a decade.

In Flight envelope of the MiG 29 has been fully explored and is in use with a lot more countries. The MiG 29 can also fit the RD 33 MK series -3 engine which is far more advanced than the RD 93 used in the JF 17.

The major thing is even in close in fight the MiG 29 is a proven platform and the Russians are making sure they dont have any competition in this arena as it is going to be a huge order.