Russia blocks RD-93 to Pakistan?

[genmirajborgza786]

Some coffee for thought's...... from Le'borgze's cafe..de'mure..



On Ivanov’s agenda, how to outdo Washington’s hardsell of weapons



Shiv AroorPosted online: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 at 0000 hrs Print Email

NEW DELHI, JANUARY 22: On his seventh trip to New Delhi in as many years, Russian defence minister Sergei Ivanov’s agenda this time round couldn’t be more crucial, both commercially and strategically, to Moscow.
With its monopoly of the Indian weapons market steeply threatened, and New Delhi on the threshold of purchasing billions of dollars worth of new generation weapons, it’s a do-or-die state for the post-Cold War Russian military complex.
In India for a week, beginning today, for the sixth inter-governmental commission meeting on military cooperation on Wednesday and to be part of President Vladimir Putin’s entourage on Republic Day, Ivanov’s visit will principally aim to do a quick round of negotiations, followed by efforts to compete with Washington’s hardsell of its own weapons and systems.
Apart from discussions on the S-300 anti-missile defence system and existing defence contracts — including numerous upgrade programmes for the MiG-29 fleet, engines for Lakshya remotely piloted vehicles — the delegation-level meeting on Wednesday is likely to push substantially ahead with the fifth generation fighter joint programme that the two countries have been talking about for over six years.
Another deal highly likely to enter its final phase during Ivanov’s visit is the multirole transport aircraft (MTA). Ivanov will also, of course, make a pitch for MiG-35 fighter for an upcoming Indian purchase of 126 fighters — the purchase could well be a do or die commercial situation for manufacturer RAC-MiG.
Sources said Moscow’s offer of transferring technology to build Amur-class attack submarines to supplement the first Scorpene line and the leasing of a pair of Akula nuclear submarines as test beds for India’s Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) programme (including Russian assistance in resolving new technological roadblocks), would also come up at the meetings this week.
Other issues on the anvil include a compressed delivery schedule for semi-knocked down kits on the over 300 T-90 tanks to be delivered by Russia for the armoured corps, an order for three follow-on Krivak-class stealth frigates, 80 new generation Kazan Mi-17 medium lift helicopters for the air force,
An official South Block guidance suggests that Indo-Russian defence business could touch $20 billion by 2012.

shiv.aroor@expressindia.com

© 2006: Indian Express Newspapers (Mumbai) Ltd. All rights reserved throughout the world.

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/21521.html

 

[Bull]

May be Gripen with transfer of technology should be acquired?

Sweden is in the race for getting the order for 197 artillery for IA and also has a outside chance with its grippen for the MRCA deal.

Would they try to do anything to topple that chance.
The answer is NO.

 

[lulldapull]

Some coffee for thought's...... from Le'borgze's cafe..de'mure..



On Ivanov’s agenda, how to outdo Washington’s hardsell of weapons



Shiv AroorPosted online: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 at 0000 hrs Print Email

NEW DELHI, JANUARY 22: On his seventh trip to New Delhi in as many years, Russian defence minister Sergei Ivanov’s agenda this time round couldn’t be more crucial, both commercially and strategically, to Moscow.
With its monopoly of the Indian weapons market steeply threatened, and New Delhi on the threshold of purchasing billions of dollars worth of new generation weapons, it’s a do-or-die state for the post-Cold War Russian military complex.
In India for a week, beginning today, for the sixth inter-governmental commission meeting on military cooperation on Wednesday and to be part of President Vladimir Putin’s entourage on Republic Day, Ivanov’s visit will principally aim to do a quick round of negotiations, followed by efforts to compete with Washington’s hardsell of its own weapons and systems.
Apart from discussions on the S-300 anti-missile defence system and existing defence contracts — including numerous upgrade programmes for the MiG-29 fleet, engines for Lakshya remotely piloted vehicles — the delegation-level meeting on Wednesday is likely to push substantially ahead with the fifth generation fighter joint programme that the two countries have been talking about for over six years.
Another deal highly likely to enter its final phase during Ivanov’s visit is the multirole transport aircraft (MTA). Ivanov will also, of course, make a pitch for MiG-35 fighter for an upcoming Indian purchase of 126 fighters — the purchase could well be a do or die commercial situation for manufacturer RAC-MiG.
Sources said Moscow’s offer of transferring technology to build Amur-class attack submarines to supplement the first Scorpene line and the leasing of a pair of Akula nuclear submarines as test beds for India’s Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) programme (including Russian assistance in resolving new technological roadblocks), would also come up at the meetings this week.
Other issues on the anvil include a compressed delivery schedule for semi-knocked down kits on the over 300 T-90 tanks to be delivered by Russia for the armoured corps, an order for three follow-on Krivak-class stealth frigates, 80 new generation Kazan Mi-17 medium lift helicopters for the air force,
An official South Block guidance suggests that Indo-Russian defence business could touch $20 billion by 2012.

shiv.aroor@expressindia.com

© 2006: Indian Express Newspapers (Mumbai) Ltd. All rights reserved throughout the world.

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/21521.html

Russia would get these contracts for most of these weapon systems, and Uncle Sam won't be able to sell them the F-18E/F. The highly capable Mig-35/ MRCA has pretty much already been selected. It is far easier to induct the MRCA for the IAF than go towards a competely new and expensive system, considering what the F-18E/F offers viz a viz the MRCA.

The Mig-29 is a well liked platform and has given good service to the IAF.

Point being that 'Dollar for capability' what Putin is willing to offer, the U.S> can never match, nor do they have a record of doing so.

I think this writer is is being over anxious to imply as if Ivanov has a 'tough' schedule ahead of him.......its already been decided!

 

[Bull]

first of all this source is hardly reliable we need to wait for a more credible source, until then nothings for sure.

even if russia doesn't allow pakistan to use the rd-93 on its JF- 17's there is also another engine that china is making and is now complete or nearing completion which is called the WS-13 which is being made for the JF-17. thats why neither pakistan or china is making a big fuss, the only country making a fuss as usual is india.

pakistan will get the JF-17's, and the engine isn't going to be a problem, be it RD-93 or WS-13.

If engine is not a problem this news article isnt worth any attention.thje very fact that there has been a lot of speclation regarding russian stand on RD 93 means that JF-17 project is dependant on the availabilty of RD-93.

 

[Awesome]

Must I remind you all not many sources are reporting this. This should have been all over the news.

 

[Bull]

Russians can't do diddly here against the Chinese since Chinese hold ALL of the leverage...much of the Russian armaments industry is being supported from funding that comes in from sales to China....economically, China is Russia's biggest trading partner. For a tactical reason (witholding engines which they themselves have said would come from alternate sources if they did not provide to Pakistan) is not worth it for Russians to ditch China's multi-billion dollar ventures with them. There is an Indian optimism about this situation which I can understand and then there is the reality of the situation

When was the last time China or Russia dragged each other to Intl courts? They still do business the old school way...there is way more on the line for the Russians than the Chinese...I think we are overblowing this issue.

Blain,

Russia is more comfortable arming India than China.
China and Russia have issues which has flared up in the past if im correct.

Chian is sanctioned and other than Russia they have nobody to approach.While India can, Russia fears or is considering the fact that the new entrants such as Israel and US might take a chunk away from their arms export to India and would be lad to please India.

With China they dont face a competition, so why try to please them?

much of the Russian armaments industry is being supported from funding that comes in from sales to China....economically, China is Russia's biggest trading partner.

The leading buyer in the developing world in 2005 was India, with $5.4 billion in weapons purchases, followed by Saudi Arabia with $3.4 billion and China with $2.8 billion.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4200812.stm

 

[Keysersoze]

Blain,

Russia is more comfortable arming India than China.
China and Russia have issues which has flared up in the past if im correct.

Chian is sanctioned and other than Russia they have nobody to approach.While India can, Russia fears or is considering the fact that the new entrants such as Israel and US might take a chunk away from their arms export to India and would be lad to please India.

With China they dont face a competition, so why try to please them?



The leading buyer in the developing world in 2005 was India, with $5.4 billion in weapons purchases, followed by Saudi Arabia with $3.4 billion and China with $2.8 billion.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4200812.stm

Those figures may be correct Bull but you have to look at the overall perspective rather than just arms.



RUSSIA REGISTERS GROWTH IN TRADE WITH CHINA, BUT INCREASE DUE TO HIGHER PRICES, NOT MORE TURNOVER

By Sergei Blagov

Tuesday, February 7, 2006

The Kremlin has boasted that Russia's growing trade with China is a manifestation of Moscow's "strategic" bilateral partnership with Beijing. Yet despite Russia's stated reluctance to limit itself to the role of raw materials supplier for the Chinese economy, actual export and import trends in bilateral trade suggest otherwise. Moreover, structural imbalances are deepening, as Russian exports to China remain increasingly dominated by energy and commodities, while China sells more and more high-tech products in Russia.

"We intend to further develop the strategic partnership with China," Russian President Vladimir Putin announced at his annual news conference in the Kremlin on January 31. Putin also said that the two countries had aimed at raising bilateral trade up to $20 billion three years ago, but Russia's trade turnover with China exceeded $29 billion in 2005. "We are now planning to bring trade to $60 billion by 2010," Putin said, describing the goal as "quite attainable."

While hailing the growing trade with China, Putin made no mention of structural imbalances. But he said that Russia's energy resources are well above current estimates. He described East Siberia as "a Klondike of energy resources," adding, "there are enormous resources there, which will undoubtedly be in good demand" (RIA-Novosti, January 31). Therefore, Russia's reliance on its East Siberian "Klondike" appears to remain Moscow's strategy in economic relations with China.

Russia still sells more goods to China than it buys there. Russian exports accounted for $15.89 billion, while Chinese imports to Russia totaled $13.21 billion, according to official statistics. But Russia's trade surplus was down to $2.68 billion from $3.03 billion in 2004 and Russia's trade representative in Beijing, Sergei Tsyplakov, described this trend as a "major success" for China.

The value of trade between Russia and China has been rising recently. Last year, the trade turnover was up by 37.1% over 2004, according to Tsyplakov. About half of the increase, or some $4 billion, came from Russian oil exports, he said. Oil, oil products, coal, and electricity amounted to 40% of Russian exports to China last year, up from 34.5% in 2004 and 10% in 2001 (Interfax, January 19).

But the officials in Russia have few reasons to claim the growth of bilateral trade as their achievement. Tsyplakov conceded that bilateral trade turnover was up in 2005 mainly due to high global commodity prices. For example, in the first 11 months of 2005, oil deliveries to China totaled 11.5 millions tons, up 13.2% in terms of volume but 62% higher in terms of value.

Other Russian export items mirrored this trend. Russian oil products exports to China were down by 4% year-on-year in volume, but were up by 36.6% in value. Likewise, potash exports were up by 0.4% in volume, but 31% in value.

As Russian exports to China remain dependent on international commodity price movements, Russian officials are wary of a possible global commodity downturn. These numbers make analysts wonder how bilateral trade turnover could be increased to $60-80 billion by 2010, particularly in the event of lower global commodity prices, Tsyplakov said (Interfax, January 19).

In the meantime, Chinese exports to Russia are not as tied to commodity prices. The share of high-tech goods was up by nearly 60% in overall Chinese exports to Russia in 2005. Meanwhile, the share of Russian machinery sales in overall exports to China plunged from 4.8% in 2004 down to 2.2% in 2005.

Yet despite some worrying imbalances, Russian officials still boast about the growth in bilateral trade without any reservations. Cooperation with China will remain one of Russia's priorities, former Russian ambassador to China and Federation Council member Igor Rogachyov said on February 1. He hailed growing the bilateral trade as unprecedented "in the history of Russian-Chinese relations" (Interfax, February 1).

Russian officials have pledged to diversify trade with China and insisted that Russia should not accept the role of feedstock supplier for the energy-hungry Chinese economy. Russia's abundance of raw materials is an advantage, but in the long term Russia should not remain a mere supplier of raw materials for China's booming economy, Russian ambassador to China Sergei Razov announced last September. However, official pronouncements are yet to entail any practical results, as no new incentives have been introduced recently to raise Russian high-tech exports to China.

In 2005, China became Russia's second-largest trading partner after Germany, while Russia still remained China's eighth largest trading partner. But bilateral trade volumes are still relatively insignificant in terms of global trade.

 

[Keysersoze]

New Delhi , Feb. 6

INDIA and Russia on Monday decided to set up a joint forum on trade and investment as a prelude to the feasibility of signing a Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement (CECA) between them, besides projecting increase in bilateral trade turnover to $10 billion by 2010.

The Union Commerce & Industry Minister, Mr Kamal Nath, stated this here at a joint press conference with his Russian counterpart, Mr German Gref, after both of them signed the protocol on completion of bilateral negotiations on the Accession of Russia to the WTO and the memorandum of understanding on cooperation between the Ministry of Commerce and Industry of India and the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade of the Russian Federation.

Both sides have also agreed to strengthen cooperation in oil and natural gas, besides beefing up existing cooperation in crucial areas, the two Ministers said.

Mr Kamal Nath said that India was looking forward to Russia's early accession to the WTO for further cooperation in the multilateral trade forum on the basis of mutual benefit.

As per the WTO accession procedures, the country seeking accession is required to negotiate bilaterally with each member country of the WTO. It is in accordance with this principle that both the Ministers signed the protocol on completion of bilateral negotiations on the accession of Russia to the WTO.

Joint study group: The MoU provides for the setting up of a joint study group (JSG) with a view to assessing the feasibility of signing CECA between the two countries.

The JSG is likely to prepare a roadmap for achieving a significant increase in bilateral trade turnover by diversifying and strengthening relations in a wide range of areas particularly trade in goods, services, investment and economic cooperation. The JSG, to be co-chaired by the Commerce Secretary from the Indian side and his counterpart from the Russian side, is expected to suggest specific measures to stem the decline in India's exports to Russia.

Even though bilateral trade is increasing — with growth of 11 per cent in two-way trade in 2004-05 — India's exports to Russia has been declining over the last few years. Indo-Russian bilateral trade in 2004-045 was Rs 8,369.85 crore i.e., $1862.81 million ($1.8 billion). New Delhi , Feb. 6

INDIA and Russia on Monday decided to set up a joint forum on trade and investment as a prelude to the feasibility of signing a Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement (CECA) between them, besides projecting increase in bilateral trade turnover to $10 billion by 2010.

The Union Commerce & Industry Minister, Mr Kamal Nath, stated this here at a joint press conference with his Russian counterpart, Mr German Gref, after both of them signed the protocol on completion of bilateral negotiations on the Accession of Russia to the WTO and the memorandum of understanding on cooperation between the Ministry of Commerce and Industry of India and the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade of the Russian Federation.

Both sides have also agreed to strengthen cooperation in oil and natural gas, besides beefing up existing cooperation in crucial areas, the two Ministers said.

Mr Kamal Nath said that India was looking forward to Russia's early accession to the WTO for further cooperation in the multilateral trade forum on the basis of mutual benefit.

As per the WTO accession procedures, the country seeking accession is required to negotiate bilaterally with each member country of the WTO. It is in accordance with this principle that both the Ministers signed the protocol on completion of bilateral negotiations on the accession of Russia to the WTO.

Joint study group: The MoU provides for the setting up of a joint study group (JSG) with a view to assessing the feasibility of signing CECA between the two countries.

The JSG is likely to prepare a roadmap for achieving a significant increase in bilateral trade turnover by diversifying and strengthening relations in a wide range of areas particularly trade in goods, services, investment and economic cooperation. The JSG, to be co-chaired by the Commerce Secretary from the Indian side and his counterpart from the Russian side, is expected to suggest specific measures to stem the decline in India's exports to Russia.

Even though bilateral trade is increasing — with growth of 11 per cent in two-way trade in 2004-05 — India's exports to Russia has been declining over the last few years. Indo-Russian bilateral trade in 2004-045 was Rs 8,369.85 crore i.e., $1862.81 million ($1.8 billion).

Of this, India's exports to Russia amounted to Rs 2,684.33 crore i.e., $597/43 million, and India's imports from Russia valued at Rs 5,685.52 crore, i.e., $1,265.38 million. New Delhi , Feb. 6

[COLOR="Red"I]NDIA and Russia on Monday decided to set up a joint forum on trade and investment as a prelude to the feasibility of signing a Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement (CECA) between them, besides projecting increase in bilateral trade turnover to $10 billion by 2010. New Delhi , Feb. 6

INDIA and Russia on Monday decided to set up a joint forum on trade and investment as a prelude to the feasibility of signing a Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement (CECA) between them, besides projecting increase in bilateral trade turnover to $10 billion by 2010.

The Union Commerce & Industry Minister, Mr Kamal Nath, stated this here at a joint press conference with his Russian counterpart, Mr German Gref, after both of them signed the protocol on completion of bilateral negotiations on the Accession of Russia to the WTO and the memorandum of understanding on cooperation between the Ministry of Commerce and Industry of India and the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade of the Russian Federation.

Both sides have also agreed to strengthen cooperation in oil and natural gas, besides beefing up existing cooperation in crucial areas, the two Ministers said.

Mr Kamal Nath said that India was looking forward to Russia's early accession to the WTO for further cooperation in the multilateral trade forum on the basis of mutual benefit.

As per the WTO accession procedures, the country seeking accession is required to negotiate bilaterally with each member country of the WTO. It is in accordance with this principle that both the Ministers signed the protocol on completion of bilateral negotiations on the accession of Russia to the WTO.

Joint study group: The MoU provides for the setting up of a joint study group (JSG) with a view to assessing the feasibility of signing CECA between the two countries.

The JSG is likely to prepare a roadmap for achieving a significant increase in bilateral trade turnover by diversifying and strengthening relations in a wide range of areas particularly trade in goods, services, investment and economic cooperation. The JSG, to be co-chaired by the Commerce Secretary from the Indian side and his counterpart from the Russian side, is expected to suggest specific measures to stem the decline in India's exports to Russia.

Even though bilateral trade is increasing — with growth of 11 per cent in two-way trade in 2004-05 — India's exports to Russia has been declining over the last few years. Indo-Russian bilateral trade in 2004-045 was Rs 8,369.85 crore i.e., $1862.81 million ($1.8 billion).

Of this, India's exports to Russia amounted to Rs 2,684.33 crore i.e., $597/43 million, and India's imports from Russia valued at Rs 5,685.52 crore, i.e., $1,265.38 million.

The Union Commerce & Industry Minister, Mr Kamal Nath, stated this here at a joint press conference with his Russian counterpart, Mr German Gref, after both of them signed the protocol on completion of bilateral negotiations on the Accession of Russia to the WTO and the memorandum of understanding on cooperation between the Ministry of Commerce and Industry of India and the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade of the Russian Federation.

Both sides have also agreed to strengthen cooperation in oil and natural gas, besides beefing up existing cooperation in crucial areas, the two Ministers said.

Mr Kamal Nath said that India was looking forward to Russia's early accession to the WTO for further cooperation in the multilateral trade forum on the basis of mutual benefit.

As per the WTO accession procedures, the country seeking accession is required to negotiate bilaterally with each member country of the WTO. It is in accordance with this principle that both the Ministers signed the protocol on completion of bilateral negotiations on the accession of Russia to the WTO.

Joint study group: The MoU provides for the setting up of a joint study group (JSG) with a view to assessing the feasibility of signing CECA between the two countries.

The JSG is likely to prepare a roadmap for achieving a significant increase in bilateral trade turnover by diversifying and strengthening relations in a wide range of areas particularly trade in goods, services, investment and economic cooperation. The JSG, to be co-chaired by the Commerce Secretary from the Indian side and his counterpart from the Russian side, is expected to suggest specific measures to stem the decline in India's exports to Russia.

Even though bilateral trade is increasing — with growth of 11 per cent in two-way trade in 2004-05 — India's exports to Russia has been declining over the last few years. Indo-Russian bilateral trade in 2004-045 was Rs 8,369.85 crore i.e., $1862.81 million ($1.8 billion).

[COLOR="Red"]Of this, India's exports to Russia amounted to Rs 2,684.33 crore i.e., $597/43 million, and India's imports from Russia valued at Rs 5,685.52 crore, i.e., $1,265.38 million.

 

[Bull]

Those figures may be correct Bull but you have to look at the overall perspective rather than just arms.

but Russia's trade turnover with China exceeded $29 billion in 2005.

In 2005, China became Russia's second-largest trading partner after Germany, while Russia still remained China's eighth largest trading partner. But bilateral trade volumes are still relatively insignificant in terms of global trade.

Yes of course i do agree with you Keysersoze (oops thats difficult to type. Do you have a call name?)

India trade figures with Russia is just 10% of the Russia-China trade.

 

[Neo]

Must I remind you all not many sources are reporting this. This should have been all over the news.

Indeed, much ado about nothing, the Chinese and Russian media is silent on this news and The Hindu isn't the most reliable source.

Let's just wait for Putin's visit.

 

[Contrarian]

The Hindu isn't the most reliable source.

Let's just wait for Putin's visit.

Mate, Hindu is one of THE MOST respected newspapers in India. It carries the best articles. Its writers write on content, not to sell the newspaper. The entire country respects Hindu. It has never written trash, like ToI write. The edtor select only the best articles sent whether they be pro ANYTHING to against ANYTHING, from PM to President to country. Its undoubtedly one of the best newspapers in India. I hate to say but if The Hindu publishes an article it carries with it certain credibility.

Dont think its like a tabloid out to make quick buck, or get decieved by the name 'Hindu', so its likely to carry propaganda. Every single person preparing for the civil services exam reads Hindu like a text book every day.

There have been certain instances of bad reporting, but like i said, they are very very VERY limited.

 

[Neo]

There have been certain instances of bad reporting, but like i said, they are very very VERY limited.

How do you explain an event of this magnitude getting unreported, specially in the tabloids? :read:

 

[Keysersoze]

Mate, Hindu is one of THE MOST respected newspapers in India. It carries the best articles. Its writers write on content, not to sell the newspaper. The entire country respects Hindu. It has never written trash, like ToI write. The edtor select only the best articles sent whether they be pro ANYTHING to against ANYTHING, from PM to President to country. Its undoubtedly one of the best newspapers in India. I hate to say but if The Hindu publishes an article it carries with it certain credibility.

Dont think its like a tabloid out to make quick buck, or get decieved by the name 'Hindu', so its likely to carry propaganda. Every single person preparing for the civil services exam reads Hindu like a text book every day.

There have been certain instances of bad reporting, but like i said, they are very very VERY limited.

I am sure it is a reputable paper.....but even reputable papers an be wrong....Remember the various scandals at the new york times?

 

[Contrarian]

How do you explain an event of this magnitude getting unreported, specially in the tabloids? :read:

I cannot explain that. But the logic is wrong, that since other major papers and tabloids have not reported this, then it must not be true. This assumptioin is wrong, it has been reported by several Indian defence websites too. There has been a quotation as well saying Russia wants China to honour the EULA. EULA is basically that no third country will get the Russian exported material. BTw i think it wont evince interest in any country except for India and Pakistan.

@Keysersoze: No dude, i dont know the scandals of the NYT. Do tell.

 

[Mercenary]

Mate, Hindu is one of THE MOST respected newspapers in India. It carries the best articles. Its writers write on content, not to sell the newspaper. The entire country respects Hindu. It has never written trash, like ToI write. The edtor select only the best articles sent whether they be pro ANYTHING to against ANYTHING, from PM to President to country. Its undoubtedly one of the best newspapers in India. I hate to say but if The Hindu publishes an article it carries with it certain credibility.

Dont think its like a tabloid out to make quick buck, or get decieved by the name 'Hindu', so its likely to carry propaganda. Every single person preparing for the civil services exam reads Hindu like a text book every day.

There have been certain instances of bad reporting, but like i said, they are very very VERY limited.

I don't understand why a Newspaper in India is named the Hindu?

India being a "democracy" , shouldn't the name of Indian Newspapers be non-religious to encompass muslims, sikhs and christians